Game Thread GAME# 24: THUNDER @ BLAZERS - DECEMBER 8, 2019 - SUNDAY, 6:00 PM, NBCSNW

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Which team do you despise the most?


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View attachment 28940< Tanking does no good.

Mark Cuban would disagree with that.

iu


The Warriors would too as they are in full tank mode and will add either a really good player or the asset that pick gets them to wot with a healthy Curry and Thompson next season along with whatever they get for Green if he is still there. Spurs did the same getting Duncan. You just have to be a good organization and not one of these clown shows that tanks year after year with no talent to add to a good pick and a front office that is a roller coaster.

I have higher hopes for this roster next season when healthy with a very talented player or the asset they got from the pick.....than without that additional piece. Since they aren't going anywhere this season and have a bunch of talent that will be back next year, I want what could get them to the highest level.

A pick/asset helps that IMO.
 
That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Just a week ago they blew this Thunder team out of the water with a dazzling display of unselfishness and making the extra pass. Last night they resorted back to hero ball like they always do when times get tough.
My point exactly. Maybe just a week ago was a complete anomaly and the Thunder played real poorly and the Blazers played way better than they are.
There is a bunch of hand wringing going on. Over analyzing every move they make on here.
 
Wow Mavs are so lucky to have a generational talent like Doncic
 
And pointing out that things don't sound smarter in CAPS
I just use CAPS to make an emphasis on the point i'm trying to make. I use it in place of BOLD for the most part. Never thought it make the post any more legit or not.
 
Where the fuck did I do that? I didn't obviously word one post, but this is an example of a mod making up some shit. But youre gonna defend your boy at all costs while he rants at people in all caps. And pointing out that things don't sound smarter in CAPS isn't calling someone stupid, so quit making things up.

EDIT: To make things worse, the guy who runs the forum 'liked' that post.

This place man...

Didn't make up anything. Not defending anyone. Doing my job.

You posted "typing in all caps doesn't make you sound any smarter" an implication that he is stupid.
 
Didn't make up anything. Not defending anyone. Doing my job.

You posted "typing in all caps doesn't make you sound any smarter" an implication that he is stupid.
So now where deleting stuff because you interpreted me as implying something I didnt? Awesome!

It was a way of saying "Why do you feel the need to use caps". Either way, you said I "called" him stupid, which I didnt. I didnt even use the word. As a mod, dont put your own interpretations onto my posts when theyre not true.
 
I just use CAPS to make an emphasis on the point i'm trying to make. I use it in place of BOLD for the most part. Never thought it make the post any more legit or not.
If one word is CAPS, thats fine. Dude had full on all CAPS sentences.
 
My point exactly. Maybe just a week ago was a complete anomaly and the Thunder played real poorly and the Blazers played way better than they are.
There is a bunch of hand wringing going on. Over analyzing every move they make on here.
The Blazers played better because they moved the ball.
 
If one word is CAPS, thats fine. Dude had full on all CAPS sentences.
So now there is a rule that I CAN"T USE CAPS FOR MORE THAN ONE WORD?

Do i really have to use green font for you to know i'm messing with you?
 
So now there is a rule that I CAN"T USE CAPS FOR MORE THAN ONE WORD?

Do i really have to use green font for you to know i'm messing with you?
Nah, you don't! I can usually tell when you're messing with me or being serious.
 
Of course they played better. But you obviously are missing the point here.
I think I am missing it. I'd like to hear you further explain it. Anyway, here's how I see things:

My whole point is that this team and roster could still play a high level of basketball if they consistently played the game the right way. I've been outspoken on what I think that "right way" is. The proof for me is the difference between the 2nd OKC game when they played the right way, and this most recent OKC game where they didn't. A lot of people said "Well, they didn't have Rodney this game" but we're talking about a 3o point difference between those two games, so I don't think having or not having Rodney was the difference there. And I think that applies to the rest of the season: Injuries hurt but they're not a valid excuse for losing games like this most recent OKC one, because it comes down to the style of play. Now if we play a good brand of basketball and still lose to a talented team, then injuries might be the different. Obviously, a good "style of play" is subjective and there's a major gray area between "good" and "bad" style of play, I just think the injury excuse gets used a bit too much when we play a bad style of basketball and lose games due to it (like this last OKC one).

What is your overall point? That sounds snarky but I don't mean it like that at all -- I really do want to hear what you have to say as I'm curious as to how you perceive things and I'm curious to see what you think about what I said here.
 
So now where deleting stuff because you interpreted me as implying something I didnt? Awesome!

It was a way of saying "Why do you feel the need to use caps". Either way, you said I "called" him stupid, which I didnt. I didnt even use the word. As a mod, dont put your own interpretations onto my posts when theyre not true.

It was deemed a personal insult. End of story.
 
I think I am missing it. I'd like to hear you further explain it. Anyway, here's how I see things:

My whole point is that this team and roster could still play a high level of basketball if they consistently played the game the right way. I've been outspoken on what I think that "right way" is. The proof for me is the difference between the 2nd OKC game when they played the right way, and this most recent OKC game where they didn't. A lot of people said "Well, they didn't have Rodney this game" but we're talking about a 3o point difference between those two games, so I don't think having or not having Rodney was the difference there. And I think that applies to the rest of the season: Injuries hurt but they're not a valid excuse for losing games like this most recent OKC one, because it comes down to the style of play. Now if we play a good brand of basketball and still lose to a talented team, then injuries might be the different. Obviously, a good "style of play" is subjective and there's a major gray area between "good" and "bad" style of play, I just think the injury excuse gets used a bit too much when we play a bad style of basketball and lose games due to it (like this last OKC one).

What is your overall point? That sounds snarky but I don't mean it like that at all -- I really do want to hear what you have to say as I'm curious as to how you perceive things and I'm curious to see what you think about what I said here.
Honestly i can't even disagree with what you are saying. They absolutely need to play the right way. But for some reason they don't seem to be doing it well for long periods of time. You see two or three good possessions and then like 5 bad. Then a good stretch for 5 mins and then 5 mins of garbage.
That whole thing right there leads me to believe they just are not meshing well together. Maybe this is correctable? Maybe it isn't? I know you like to say Stotts needs to take control. Again i agree. Better timed TO's could help. But he has called TO's and they have come right back out with the same problems.
Last nights game was tough to watch but i also was watching close. Really looking if they were getting open looks. They were getting open looks. There were many wide open looks that just didn't fall. Maybe you don't like the three? I can understand that but a wide open look from three is a shot they are supposed to take. Maybe you don't like the hand off? I can understand that also but a bunch of times the double hand off got Dame a good look from three and he missed. Melo was drawing a help defender last night. He didn't pass well out of it. Made a couple bad shots but missed some also. I know Hood is not the only problem but you have to admit he has been money from three this year.
Seriously i don't know all the answers but i can see them trying to work out the kinks. In my opinion they need a SF and they need one fast. Then they look to need another 20 games to get things working better. If they get to 40-45 game and things are not better then i will worry more.
 
Honestly i can't even disagree with what you are saying. They absolutely need to play the right way. But for some reason they don't seem to be doing it well for long periods of time. You see two or three good possessions and then like 5 bad. Then a good stretch for 5 mins and then 5 mins of garbage.
That whole thing right there leads me to believe they just are not meshing well together. Maybe this is correctable? Maybe it isn't? I know you like to say Stotts needs to take control. Again i agree. Better timed TO's could help. But he has called TO's and they have come right back out with the same problems.
Last nights game was tough to watch but i also was watching close. Really looking if they were getting open looks. They were getting open looks. There were many wide open looks that just didn't fall. Maybe you don't like the three? I can understand that but a wide open look from three is a shot they are supposed to take. Maybe you don't like the hand off? I can understand that also but a bunch of times the double hand off got Dame a good look from three and he missed. Melo was drawing a help defender last night. He didn't pass well out of it. Made a couple bad shots but missed some also. I know Hood is not the only problem but you have to admit he has been money from three this year.
Seriously i don't know all the answers but i can see them trying to work out the kinks. In my opinion they need a SF and they need one fast. Then they look to need another 20 games to get things working better. If they get to 40-45 game and things are not better then i will worry more.
They had these issues last year too though, I just don't think it's about the personnel not "meshing" (they meshed for a stretch just fine, why would that degrade?). I'll explain why these issues are more apparent and problematic later on in this post.

Anyway, to respond to your comments about the team getting good looks last night, I believe there comes a time when the offense has to switch gears if certain shots aren't falling. The problem is, this team falls in love with the perimeter shot and relies on it way too much. Have you noticed how the postgame press conference often includes Stotts blaming "not making shots" as the main reason for almost every loss? The issue I have is that the team can't get anything going if they aren't hitting jumpshots. Sure, you take the open 3, but I don't think the team is close to as deliberate as they should be in terms of moving the ball and moving personnel to try to get good looks around the rim. This is important to do when shots aren't falling, but instead they keep shooting the shots that aren't falling, keep missing them, then they blame that for the loss as if they couldn't have adjusted and done something differently.

I also think our struggles this year compared to last year is because last year's personnel did a better job of masking the weaknesses of our style of play. It was better for Stotts, but not betting overall, if that makes sense. I'll try to explain:

1.) Our offense was stagnant and pretty motionless, and would often degrade into basic pick n roll. However Nurkic was an elite roll man last year from a screening, finishing, and short-roll passing standpoint, so when our offense degrading into that, it was still a solid option. However, guard the pick n roll and you stop the entire offense. Now, the pick n roll is easier to stop and the ball movement is still mostly non-existent. Nurkic also was an elite passing C last year, so that helped guys cut a bit and we could freelance with him at the elbow.

Some people will view that as simply not having Nurkic hurts us, which it does, but it shouldn't hurt us as much as it does. Whiteside is a solid pick n roll big but not elite like Nurkic, however the difference between them is exacerbated because of how much our offense relies on pick n roll to bail them out of a stagnant halfcourt set. When we move the ball well and play a good offensive brand of basketball, the difference is pretty negligible, since we don't have to rely on our C being an elite pick n roll big and an elite passing big in order to play a good brand of basketball. We CAN play a good brand of ball with Whiteside instead of Nurkic, Whiteside just doesn't cover our stylistic deficiencies like Nurkic. To me, that falls on Stotts. You shouldn't need an elite roll man and an elite passing C in order for your team to play a solid style of basketball.

2.) We had better defenders. Now, this is a personnel thing, but these defenders helped cover for other deficiencies as well. We've always been bad at defensive rotations, but we never needed to rely on them as much as we do now because our defenders last year covered ground quickly and had length, so they didn't have to be on a string to be effective defensively. This unit does, and they're not. So blame goes to personnel, as well as Stotts because he hasn't been able to get these guys to consistently improve on the defensive end in terms of their defensive rotations. Nurkic is also an elite rim protector (slightly better than Whiteside), but the difference is exacerbated because of the defensive scheme Stotts likes to run. Whiteside is a better option for hedging or showing on screens than Nurkic, Nurkic is much better sagging back on the pick n roll. Stotts runs more of the latter.

CONCLUSION: A lot of people only blame injuries. Obviously, they have hurt us and are part of the issue. Losing Hood hurts, I agree with what you said, he's been phenomenal. But I also believe these injuries have exposed some deficiencies that were already they that we won in spite of in previous seasons.

As far as Melo passing out of the double, it seemed like guys didn't know where to be to best take advantage of the fact that Melo was getting doubled. It was as if they hadn't worked on what they should do when Melo gets doubled, and if they did work on it, it wasn't productive. I'm not trying to make this about me bashing Stotts, but I'll start fresh and be as objective as possible when trying to analyze certain problems with this team, and when I work through them in my mind, they always seem to come back to poor coaching.
 
Anyway, to respond to your comments about the team getting good looks last night, I believe there comes a time when the offense has to switch gears if certain shots aren't falling. The problem is, this team falls in love with the perimeter shot and relies on it way too much. Have you noticed how the postgame press conference often includes Stotts blaming "not making shots" as the main reason for almost every loss? The issue I have is that the team can't get anything going if they aren't hitting jumpshots. Sure, you take the open 3, but I don't think the team is close to as deliberate as they should be in terms of moving the ball and moving personnel to try to get good looks around the rim. This is important to do when shots aren't falling, but instead they keep shooting the shots that aren't falling, keep missing them, then they blame that for the loss as if they couldn't have adjusted and done something differently.

Pretty much my feeling also. But i think the very nature of switching gears takes a team that knows each other very well. Now to address this problem last year would be more directed at the team didn't have the personnel to change gears. This year at least until Hood went down they had people who could hit the shot and create. Last year they didn't so much?

I also think our struggles this year compared to last year is because last year's personnel did a better job of masking the weaknesses of our style of play. It was better for Stotts, but not betting overall, if that makes sense. I'll try to explain:

This is my point above. They could mask it because after three years together they knew where players were going to be and what they were going to do.

Whiteside just doesn't cover our stylistic deficiencies like Nurkic. To me, that falls on Stotts.
Again this is a personnel issue. It also seems to be working itself out a bit but remember Whiteside was injured in training camp and for much of the first 12 games. I agree though that Stotts needs to continue to make changes that will fit Hassan. Not try to make changes to Hassan to fit Lillard and CJ.

2.) We had better defenders. Now, this is a personnel thing, but these defenders helped cover for other deficiencies as well.
Better defenders yes and they also didn't take plays off. But i have a problem with this in general. Seemed to me Hood and Baze were making up defensive plays just fine. Also anyone watching has seen CJ has improved on the defensive side immensely as well as Dame. Now as far as Nurkic being a better rim protector than Whiteside? I would have to disagree with you there. Dude is swatting shots like flies. Nurk has never had that kind of effect. But he does play tougher and maybe players get less chance to put the shot up in the first place? Bottom line----- Defense is the biggest TEAM part of the game. Again this takes time and communication plus effort. The team doesn't have that yet.
***So again to me this falls on beginning of the season with players that are still trying to mesh. Then they lost Collins and added Melo with no training camp. Now they need to add another player. Baze or whomever they pick up?

As far as Melo passing out of the double, it seemed like guys didn't know where to be to best take advantage of the fact that Melo was getting doubled.
Here again Melo has only been here a very short time and yes i totally agree with you. They just don't seem to know how to take advantage of that yet. This team has not really had a player that draws that kind of attention and can burn another team if he doesn't draw it.

m not trying to make this about me bashing Stotts
Don't even worry. You have not. But Stotts is only one man and has been dealing with all the same issues the forum is. Look at how many are just saying "Fuck It!" Tank! I could only imagine being in his shoes at this point? What a very tough season to be the Blazers coach? I guess i just have compassion for the situation he is in. I run large crews. I know what it is to be short handed and then get a plan set and have that taken away. then set another plan and have that idea shattered. Then to do it all again and have to get new guys on the job and then they don't show up to work for whatever reason.
I cannot sit there in the board meeting and say well Joe's wife in pregnant and jimmy is sick and fred broke his leg. Oh and by the way we need to move the schedule back. Stotts cannot sit in a post game and throw anyone under the bus. He has to say "Shots didn't fall" ... "I thought they brought great energy". " We need to tighten up some things on defense". The minute he goes anywhere else the team will quit on him.

Stotts is not without fault but who honestly can blame the coach at this point is all i'm saying. He started the season down two. Lost Gasol. Now lost Hood. Added Melo and is looking at having to add another player that many say isn't even out there.
 
They had these issues last year too though, I just don't think it's about the personnel not "meshing" (they meshed for a stretch just fine, why would that degrade?). I'll explain why these issues are more apparent and problematic later on in this post.

Anyway, to respond to your comments about the team getting good looks last night, I believe there comes a time when the offense has to switch gears if certain shots aren't falling. The problem is, this team falls in love with the perimeter shot and relies on it way too much. Have you noticed how the postgame press conference often includes Stotts blaming "not making shots" as the main reason for almost every loss? The issue I have is that the team can't get anything going if they aren't hitting jumpshots. Sure, you take the open 3, but I don't think the team is close to as deliberate as they should be in terms of moving the ball and moving personnel to try to get good looks around the rim. This is important to do when shots aren't falling, but instead they keep shooting the shots that aren't falling, keep missing them, then they blame that for the loss as if they couldn't have adjusted and done something differently.

I also think our struggles this year compared to last year is because last year's personnel did a better job of masking the weaknesses of our style of play. It was better for Stotts, but not betting overall, if that makes sense. I'll try to explain:

1.) Our offense was stagnant and pretty motionless, and would often degrade into basic pick n roll. However Nurkic was an elite roll man last year from a screening, finishing, and short-roll passing standpoint, so when our offense degrading into that, it was still a solid option. However, guard the pick n roll and you stop the entire offense. Now, the pick n roll is easier to stop and the ball movement is still mostly non-existent. Nurkic also was an elite passing C last year, so that helped guys cut a bit and we could freelance with him at the elbow.

Some people will view that as simply not having Nurkic hurts us, which it does, but it shouldn't hurt us as much as it does. Whiteside is a solid pick n roll big but not elite like Nurkic, however the difference between them is exacerbated because of how much our offense relies on pick n roll to bail them out of a stagnant halfcourt set. When we move the ball well and play a good offensive brand of basketball, the difference is pretty negligible, since we don't have to rely on our C being an elite pick n roll big and an elite passing big in order to play a good brand of basketball. We CAN play a good brand of ball with Whiteside instead of Nurkic, Whiteside just doesn't cover our stylistic deficiencies like Nurkic. To me, that falls on Stotts. You shouldn't need an elite roll man and an elite passing C in order for your team to play a solid style of basketball.

2.) We had better defenders. Now, this is a personnel thing, but these defenders helped cover for other deficiencies as well. We've always been bad at defensive rotations, but we never needed to rely on them as much as we do now because our defenders last year covered ground quickly and had length, so they didn't have to be on a string to be effective defensively. This unit does, and they're not. So blame goes to personnel, as well as Stotts because he hasn't been able to get these guys to consistently improve on the defensive end in terms of their defensive rotations. Nurkic is also an elite rim protector (slightly better than Whiteside), but the difference is exacerbated because of the defensive scheme Stotts likes to run. Whiteside is a better option for hedging or showing on screens than Nurkic, Nurkic is much better sagging back on the pick n roll. Stotts runs more of the latter.

CONCLUSION: A lot of people only blame injuries. Obviously, they have hurt us and are part of the issue. Losing Hood hurts, I agree with what you said, he's been phenomenal. But I also believe these injuries have exposed some deficiencies that were already they that we won in spite of in previous seasons.

As far as Melo passing out of the double, it seemed like guys didn't know where to be to best take advantage of the fact that Melo was getting doubled. It was as if they hadn't worked on what they should do when Melo gets doubled, and if they did work on it, it wasn't productive. I'm not trying to make this about me bashing Stotts, but I'll start fresh and be as objective as possible when trying to analyze certain problems with this team, and when I work through them in my mind, they always seem to come back to poor coaching.
This is why I come here - Basketball discussions!!!!!
Pretty much my feeling also. But i think the very nature of switching gears takes a team that knows each other very well. Now to address this problem last year would be more directed at the team didn't have the personnel to change gears. This year at least until Hood went down they had people who could hit the shot and create. Last year they didn't so much?



This is my point above. They could mask it because after three years together they knew where players were going to be and what they were going to do.


Again this is a personnel issue. It also seems to be working itself out a bit but remember Whiteside was injured in training camp and for much of the first 12 games. I agree though that Stotts needs to continue to make changes that will fit Hassan. Not try to make changes to Hassan to fit Lillard and CJ.


Better defenders yes and they also didn't take plays off. But i have a problem with this in general. Seemed to me Hood and Baze were making up defensive plays just fine. Also anyone watching has seen CJ has improved on the defensive side immensely as well as Dame. Now as far as Nurkic being a better rim protector than Whiteside? I would have to disagree with you there. Dude is swatting shots like flies. Nurk has never had that kind of effect. But he does play tougher and maybe players get less chance to put the shot up in the first place? Bottom line----- Defense is the biggest TEAM part of the game. Again this takes time and communication plus effort. The team doesn't have that yet.
***So again to me this falls on beginning of the season with players that are still trying to mesh. Then they lost Collins and added Melo with no training camp. Now they need to add another player. Baze or whomever they pick up?


Here again Melo has only been here a very short time and yes i totally agree with you. They just don't seem to know how to take advantage of that yet. This team has not really had a player that draws that kind of attention and can burn another team if he doesn't draw it.


Don't even worry. You have not. But Stotts is only one man and has been dealing with all the same issues the forum is. Look at how many are just saying "Fuck It!" Tank! I could only imagine being in his shoes at this point? What a very tough season to be the Blazers coach? I guess i just have compassion for the situation he is in. I run large crews. I know what it is to be short handed and then get a plan set and have that taken away. then set another plan and have that idea shattered. Then to do it all again and have to get new guys on the job and then they don't show up to work for whatever reason.
I cannot sit there in the board meeting and say well Joe's wife in pregnant and jimmy is sick and fred broke his leg. Oh and by the way we need to move the schedule back. Stotts cannot sit in a post game and throw anyone under the bus. He has to say "Shots didn't fall" ... "I thought they brought great energy". " We need to tighten up some things on defense". The minute he goes anywhere else the team will quit on him.

Stotts is not without fault but who honestly can blame the coach at this point is all i'm saying. He started the season down two. Lost Gasol. Now lost Hood. Added Melo and is looking at having to add another player that many say isn't even out there.
This is why I come here - Basketball discussions!!!
 
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