Game Thread GAME# 35: BLAZERS @ JAZZ - DECEMBER 31, 2015 - THURSDAY, 6:00 PM (PST), CSNNW

[Blazer4ever]

Leonard did a better job at protecting the rim, still not what I expect of him but he shows growth

 

[Blazers Roy]

Expected loss wasn't it?
A limited team is without it's best player can't win 10 in a row.

Let's be grateful for the ones we won.

 

[TBpup]

Expected loss wasn't it?
A limited team is without it's best player can't win 10 in a row.

Utah was without 4 of it's 5 starters on the 2nd of a back-to-back and was up by almost 30 pts at times. This ranks as one of the worst losses of the season.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Utah was without 4 of it's 5 starters on the 2nd of a back-to-back and was up by almost 30 pts at times. This ranks as one of the worst losses of the season.

Yes, but we were also on a back2back, Snyder reads Stotts' offense pretty easily (we had difficulties against them last year too) and they hit a gazillion 3pointers.

Missing players on their team didn't matter because other talented players were able to step up.

 

[TBpup]

Yes, but we were also on a back2back, Snyder reads Stotts' offense pretty easily (we had difficulties against them last year too) and they hit a gazillion 3pointers.

Missing players on their team didn't matter because other talented players were able to step up.

So perhaps it isn't unreasonable to expect our players so step up especially when so many of their starters are missing. Yes we were also on a back-to-back.....guess that is an excuse for us and not for them? I'm a huge Blazer fan but sometimes am puzzled by the lack of reality of ones own team that applies to anyone else we are playing. Maybe Mike Barrett just has that much of an influence.

 

[maxiep]

Utah was without 4 of it's 5 starters on the 2nd of a back-to-back and was up by almost 30 pts at times. This ranks as one of the worst losses of the season.

It's expected. We're terrible. Stotts is doing an amazing job with what he has, but the cupboard is bare. We knew this was going to be a 3-5 year rebuilding project. All we've learned this year is that McCollum and Aminu can be useful bench players. Everyone else is who we thought they were.

 

[Blazinaway]

It's expected. We're terrible. Stotts is doing an amazing job with what he has, but the cupboard is bare. We knew this was going to be a 3-5 year rebuilding project. All we've learned this year is that McCollum and Aminu can be useful bench players. Everyone else is who we thought they were.

don't disagree except about CJ being a "useful bench player", I think he is a lot more than that

It's expected. We're terrible. Stotts is doing an amazing job with what he has, but the cupboard is bare. We knew this was going to be a 3-5 year rebuilding project. All we've learned this year is that McCollum and Aminu can be useful bench players. Everyone else is who we thought they were.

don't disagree is general but you classify CJ as a "useful bench player" - huh?, I think he's proven he is a lot more than that. In fact he's our best trade chip "if" we decide to make a move. I am sure there are several GM's looking at him as a very desirable piece, if they pay enough I'd trade him.

 

[blue9]

Snyder reads Stotts' offense pretty easily

You don't say!

 

[Strenuus]

The expected have been expected!

 

[Pinwheel1]

If it does not hurt Dame's recovery, he needs to play. I have a bad feeling about this one. We will need Dame tonight.

Yep, we saw it coming.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

don't disagree except about CJ being a "useful bench player", I think he is a lot more than that

don't disagree is general but you classify CJ as a "useful bench player" - huh?, I think he's proven he is a lot more than that. In fact he's our best trade chip "if" we decide to make a move. I am sure there are several GM's looking at him as a very desirable piece, if they pay enough I'd trade him.

I responded to him in another thread with this when he spouted off with that CJ is bench player nonsense:

McCollum a backup on a playoff team? Only if that playoff team was the Bulls, the Warriors, the Heat, or the Rockets. Last I looked there are 16 playoff teams but even if you are only thinking just the West then there are 8 total and only 2 teams wouldn't start him over their current guy. He is 6th in SG PER, 4th in SG Value Added, 4th in Estimated Wins Added, and tied for 3rd in SG scoring for the whole NBA.

 

[TBpup]

McCollum a backup on a playoff team? Only if that playoff team was the Bulls, the Warriors, the Heat, or the Rockets. Last I looked there are 16 playoff teams but even if you are only thinking just the West then there are 8 total and only 2 teams wouldn't start him over their current guy. He is 6th in SG PER, 4th in SG Value Added, 4th in Estimated Wins Added, and tied for 3rd in SG scoring for the whole NBA.

CJ is putting up numbers we only hoped he would get to. Now we just need to figure out if that model of 2 ball dominant scoring combo guards works for a playoff and then contending team. I struggle to remember examples of that working but likely someone else remembers instances of that being the case.

 

[blue9]

CJ is putting up numbers we only hoped he would get to. Now we just need to figure out if that model of 2 ball dominant scoring combo guards works for a playoff and then contending team. I struggle to remember examples of that working but likely someone else remembers instances of that being the case.

I think it'd work a lot better if we had a do-everything SF. Wonder where we could find one of those...

 

[TBpup]

I think it'd work a lot better if we had a do-everything SF. Wonder where we could find one of those...

I know where one is that shows ups once ever 5 games and in contract years.

 

[blue9]

Two seasons ago was not a contract year.
And even at his worst he was better than most.

 

[TBpup]

Two seasons ago was not a contract year.
And even at his worst he was better than most.

Look at the inconsistency in the year. He put up some good averages but he was all over the place in terms of showing up night after night....which he did not do. One of the most talented SF's in the league but he frustrated the heck out of the last two coaching staffs in Portland.

 

[blue9]

Look at the inconsistency in the year. He put up some good averages but he was all over the place in terms of showing up night after night....which he did not do. One of the most talented SF's in the league but he frustrated the heck out of the last two coaching staffs in Portland.

I actually charted his entire season (scoring) against LMA's quite a while back, and showed that Nic was more consistent than LMA. But people didn't want to hear it because it didn't fit the popular narrative.

 

[TBpup]

He had 25 games that season of single digit scoring. He also had 37 games with 4 assists or less. For someone who was the primary ball handler with Dame, that is a lot of games of little production. That's not a narrative, just what happened. Again....extremely talented but he just didn't play up to that ability very often or on a very consistent basis while he was here.

And that was his BEST season here in 7 years. There were a lot of seasons of much worse.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

It was a big game, and the Jazz played harder than we did (perhaps spurred by their hot shooting).

I've been a Frazier supporter, but after this game, I think he should quit basketball! He passed up a WIDE open 3 pointer, telling the Jazz he didn't want to shoot (which they already knew), penetrated, and passed back. Since the Jazz know he didn't want to shoot, even from close in, they easily intercepted the pass. This was in the 4th quarter, when we were trying to catch up, and were actually making some progress. It killed us. If you're a PG and you don't have confidence enough in your shot to shoot an open 3-pointer, find a new job, period.

Plumlee was outplayed by Jeff "Effing" Withey.

 

[Pinwheel1]

CJ is putting up numbers we only hoped he would get to. Now we just need to figure out if that model of 2 ball dominant scoring combo guards works for a playoff and then contending team. I struggle to remember examples of that working but likely someone else remembers instances of that being the case.

The fact that they are both extremely good outside shooters makes me confident that it can work.

It's not like one of them is Rondo, who needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Both CJ and Dame can catch and shoot. Theoretically both should be able to dominate the ball and both should be able to play SG. Weren't we looking for a PG who could take pressure off of Dame so he could slide over to SG part of the time? CJ looks to fit that part perfectly because he keeps the defense honest so they can't double Dame as much.

Keep in mind in mind they have only been playing together for about 30 games.

 

[Blazers Roy]

So perhaps it isn't unreasonable to expect our players so step up especially when so many of their starters are missing. Yes we were also on a back-to-back.....guess that is an excuse for us and not for them? I'm a huge Blazer fan but sometimes am puzzled by the lack of reality of ones own team that applies to anyone else we are playing. Maybe Mike Barrett just has that much of an influence.

It isn't unreasonable, but you can't always get 150% from your players whenever you want, especially on the road.
Things clicked for 3 games and then we lost to a well coached team.

If this situation happened 10 times then the Blazers would have won 6 of them, it's not reasonable to expect a 10-0 match-up against them.

 

[TBpup]

It isn't unreasonable, but you can't always get 150% from your players whenever you want, especially on the road.
Things clicked for 3 games and then we lost to a well coached team.

If this situation happened 10 times then the Blazers would have won 6 of them, it's not reasonable to expect a 10-0 match-up against them.

If we can only win 6 out of 10 against a very sub .500 team that is missing 4 starters, I REALLY hope we don't make the playoffs.

 

[Blazers Roy]

If we can only win 6 out of 10 against a very sub .500 team that is missing 4 starters, I REALLY hope we don't make the playoffs.

Oh, so we should avoid the playoffs until we'll be sure we can be in the finals?

 

[TBpup]

Oh, so we should avoid the playoffs until we'll be sure we can be in the finals?

Who said that? Of course that's not even close to what I said. In the last 10 years, this pace wouldn't come close to the playoffs most of the time and it wouldn't be a discussion. Because much of the rest of the West has significantly declined, somehow the Blazers find themselves in the playoff hunt when their play is no where near playoff worthy. So if the team is of that caliber, I'd rather get a good Draft pick than qualify in a low bar season for the playoffs.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Who said that? Of course that's not even close to what I said. In the last 10 years, this pace wouldn't come close to the playoffs most of the time and it wouldn't be a discussion. Because much of the rest of the West has significantly declined, somehow the Blazers find themselves in the playoff hunt when their play is no where near playoff worthy. So if the team is of that caliber, I'd rather get a good Draft pick than qualify in a low bar season for the playoffs.

I'm sorry, i just can't put any weight to that loss.
Last season we were pretenders-contenders and we lost to the Jazz twice (!), freakin Booker scored like 36 points on us in one of those meetings too.

But if you think playoff experience is meaningless then i guess i can't convince you otherwise.

 

[TBpup]

I'm sorry, i just can't put any weight to that loss.
Last season we were pretenders-contenders and we lost to the Jazz twice (!), freakin Booker scored like 36 points on us in one of those meetings too.

But if you think playoff experience is meaningless then i guess i can't convince you otherwise.

Competitive playoff experience with a a legitimate chance of moving on? Absolutely. Series like even what happened against the Grizzlies last season....just show that you need to get a lot better. Well that was already known....and that was as the #4 seed and a #6 playoff ranking. Being down in the #4-6 range of the Lottery with the chance of moving up even higher IMO helps this team more than making the playoffs with 30-something wins long term. That wouldn't be the case every year but I believe it is this season.

The West is in decline and this is the chance to get a real difference maker in the front court to go with Dame/CJ....and that put you in a place to dominate for years to come.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Competitive playoff experience with a a legitimate chance of moving on? Absolutely. Series like even what happened against the Grizzlies last season....just show that you need to get a lot better. Well that was already known....and that was as the #4 seed and a #6 playoff ranking. Being down in the #4-6 range of the Lottery with the chance of moving up even higher IMO helps this team more than making the playoffs with 30-something wins long term. That wouldn't be the case every year but I believe it is this season.

The West is in decline and this is the chance to get a real difference maker in the front court to go with Dame/CJ....and that put you in a place to dominate for years to come.

OKC and Warriors aside, wouldn't you say this team showed it can compete against any other team in the league on any given night?

 

[TBpup]

OKC and Warriors aside, wouldn't you say this team showed it can compete against any other team in the league on any given night?

I would include SA in that mix as well. Real playoff teams don't even start ramping up till after the All-Star break. What happens when they are really TRYING to get in a groove or get HCA? So that is the top 3 which after that there has been a significant fall off. Compare this to a few years ago when every playoff team in the West had 50 wins or another year when it was 7 out of 8.

Portland competes on some night now because other teams just don't get up for them and rightfully so. One of my best friends and I both played for ranked college teams and another of my best friends was on the same team as a former #1 overall pick. They will all tell you how tough it is over a long season, especially early, it is to get pumped up for a team that you know isn't going anywhere.

I am totally with you that playoff experience helps if you are on an upward trajectory with a fairly stable roster in a competitive series. I just don't see Portland at that point right now. They need a LOT more help and I think a good Lottery pick does them more good in the long run than making the playoffs as cannon fodder at this point.

 

[blue9]

OKC and Warriors aside, wouldn't you say this team showed it can compete against any other team in the league on any given night?

"On any given night" - not "nightS".
Yes, any team in the league can beat any other team on any given night. That's just how the regular season is. Just because we can beat the Cavs on one night in mid-December does not mean we can beat a team in a 7-game series - or even win enough regular season games to make the POs. We're a bad team regardless of whether we get the #8 seed or the #4 pick. Whether or not we make the Playoffs this season says more about the other teams in the WC than it does about the Blazers. We are as good as we are, and it's not defined by where we are in the standings.