Game Thread GAME# 55: BLAZERS @ PELICANS - FEBRUARY 11, 2020 - TUESDAY, 5:00 PM, NBCSNW

[oldmangrouch]

well...that's kind of humiliating. You said in about 50 words what it took me about 500 to say, and you said it better

I bow down to the grouch!

Thank you! I do seminars!

 

[Tince]

Can you imagine if Olshey got a call from another GM saying they wanted Nurk, Collins, and Hood for their 12th man, a D-league player, and a player who is about to be out of the league and their selling point is "it won't make you that much worse because you have other guys who can start that are similar to the guys you're giving up."

I don't think anyone here would ok with that trade because the talent difference would be so great. However, that's basically the trade we've been dealing with every game this season.

 

[wizenheimer]

Great post/points.

Would you agree there is a big drop off between Mario, Swanigan, and Gabriel vs Whiteside, Ariza, Melo, and Skal? Would you agree that those four coming off the bench would provide a lot more depth, firepower, and versatility off the bench? Most importantly, they would allow our starters to play less minutes, so they could be more productive in their minutes?

certainly there's a drop off...I agree

but without those injuries, IMO, Portland wouldn't have Whiteside and Melo. They might have Meyers and Harkless, but those guys are just role players. Better than the scrubs Portland is forced to play, but not enough better to change the team's trajectory. Portland had Skal and was still losing a lot of games. If Hood was healthy, the Blazers may still have Bazemore although I'd like to think Olshey would have still traded for Ariza

I overreacted a bit earlier in the thread, but I just watched Portland get their asses kicked on both ends of the floor, and no matter who the Blazers had tonight the result would have been the same. The '3 of 5' missing starters comment just triggered me shortly after watch the Blazers play like shit...and by the way, on the same day we've been having lots of discussion here about how poorly the Blazers react when an opponent plays suffocating defense on Dame. Tonight was a flashback to the playoffs 21 months ago....yuck

 

[Tince]

certainly there's a drop off...I agree

but without those injuries, IMO, Portland wouldn't have Whiteside and Melo. They might have Meyers and Harkless, but those guys are just role players. Better than the scrubs Portland is forced to play, but not enough better to change the team's trajectory. Portland had Skal and was still losing a lot of games. If Hood was healthy, the Blazers may still have Bazemore although I'd like to think Olshey would have still traded for Ariza

I overreacted a bit earlier in the thread, but I just watched Portland get their asses kicked on both ends of the floor, and no matter who the Blazers had tonight the result would have been the same. The '3 of 5' missing starters comment just triggered me shortly after watch the Blazers play like shit...and by the way, on the same day we've been having lots of discussion here about how poorly the Blazers react when an opponent plays suffocating defense on Dame. Tonight was a flashback to the playoffs 21 months ago....yuck

I feel you on the flashback; that's not a fun thing to remember.

I think your point that the 3 of 5 starters comment (which I've made before as well) is over simplistic.

I also agree with you that we may not have made the moves we made if everyone were healthy. However, to some degree, that validates how important depth can be.

 

[wizenheimer]

I feel you on the flashback; that's not a fun thing to remember.

I think your point that the 3 of 5 starters comment (which I've made before as well) is over simplistic.

I also agree with you that we may not have made the moves we made if everyone were healthy. However, to some degree, that validates how important depth can be.

I mentioned it earlier but I'll say it again: I think the biggest impact of the injuries is the ripple effects they cause in the rotation. Collins goes down and Tolliver becomes the starting PF and Skal moves up to #1 backup C. Hood goes down and Bazemore has to move to SF while Simons plays more SG. And for some reason Stotts is convinced Hezonja is at the top of his 2nd string toolbox

the one silver lining is if Hood doesn't get injured we likely wouldn't have seen how good Trent has become. And the other imjuries have give us glances of Little's potential

 

[MARIS61]

At the end of the first quarter, the following lineup was on the floor:

Lillard
Trent Jr.
Simons
Gabriel
Swaniga

No matter how much of a difference we think the missing players make over their replacements - imagine if instead of those the lineup for that stretch had been:

Lillard
Trent Jr.
Hood
Collins
Nurkic

Just that. Players like Simons, Swanigan, Hezonja, Garbriel, etc. would not have spent one non-garbage time moment on the floor tonight if we were healthy (and Little is also looking more helpful than those guys and he too was missing). It's really that simple. We have players who should not be playing meaningful minutes playing a lot of meaningful minutes. The reason? Injuries.

End of first quarter is when Nurk and Zach would be sitting anyway, so no difference at all there. Were they not injured, our bench would not have most of the current players it has. We would not have Melo, Ariza, Swanigan, Gabriel...

Bottom line is we ended last year with a contender while Nurkic was injured, and Olshey managed to disassemble nearly every working part of that finely tuned machine over the summer, and has been swapping backup players ad nauseam hoping to stumble across something that will rectify his glaring mistake and save his job. we are only better at one position this year over last year, and that is at PG, where Dame has elevated to superstar and Simons provides a better backup than he's ever had here. Our bench is different, but no better than last year's. Certainly not as in sync as last year's.

 

[Jon]

Frustrated he didn't get traded to a contender?

All kidding aside, Whiteside strikes me as a limited defender, as opposed to a lazy one. If he isn't swatting shots, he often seems to be unsure what he is supposed to be doing. Just IMHO.

Absolutely not. Most of the time he is a viable piece to the team. Tonight, not so much.

 

[BonesJones]

End of first quarter is when Nurk and Zach would be sitting anyway, so no difference at all there. Were they not injured, our bench would not have most of the current players it has. We would not have Melo, Ariza, Swanigan, Gabriel...

Bottom line is we ended last year with a contender while Nurkic was injured, and Olshey managed to disassemble nearly every working part of that finely tuned machine over the summer, and has been swapping backup players ad nauseam hoping to stumble across something that will rectify his glaring mistake and save his job. we are only better at one position this year over last year, and that is at PG, where Dame has elevated to superstar and Simons provides a better backup than he's ever had here. Our bench is different, but no better than last year's. Certainly not as in sync as last year's.

You realize we could only keep 1 of Curry, Hood, and Kanter right? And we lost the one to injury that we kept? You act like we don't have any of those guys by choice...

 

[SIeepwalker]

They are behind us but so far are sweeping us for the season 3-0.

Like OKC last year amirite

 

[stampedehero]

PORTLAND TRAIL BLAZERS
117 - 138
NEW ORLEANS PELICANS

(25-30)
FINAL
(23-31)
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
POR 36 29 21 31
NO 27 36 41 34

Leading Players




CJ McCollum
20
Points


Zion Williamson
31




Hassan Whiteside
14
Rebounds


Zion Williamson
9




Damian Lillard
6
Assists


Lonzo Ball
10
Source: MSN Sports
BAD TREND...Losing to a team with a record worst than ours.

 

[kjironman1]

With every big lead blown and indifferent effort I become more convinced they need to take a weed-whacker to this roster. And please spare me the "injury" excuse. Nurk is the only high impact player we are missing, and that only applies if he can stay healthy.

It's got nothing to do with "High impact". It's called "Depth". You take Nurk and follow with Whiteside = Depth. Collins and Follow with Melo = Depth. Hood and Follow with Ariza = Depth. Cj and follow with Trent = Depth. Lillard and Follow with someone other than 1M and you have Depth. Get players like Swanigan, Gabriel, Mario, Moses, Hoard off the freaking court. If you can't see that "injuries" are having an effect then i don't know what to tell you?

 

[kjironman1]

I'm assuming these aren't real stats?

They are not. Even Alvin Gentry is on his 5th year. And that is after losing with quite possibly one of the best generational talents on his roster the entire time and then letting the team lose him just when they pick up the next once in a lifetime talent. Can you imagine them having Davis and Zion and Holiday? That would be fun to watch though for sure. gentry would find a way to mess it up I'm sure.

 

[HailBlazers]

Collins hasn't proved anything in his career so he'd have no impact...

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Collins hasn't proved anything in his career so he'd have no impact...

In my opinion in Zachs case of the 3 “starters”, he’s the one where I really dont know what his impact would be. It said a lot that they didnt really have a viable back up.

 

[TBpup]

Like OKC last year amirite

Quite right. But Dame owned Russell. Holiday....not so much.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I mentioned it earlier but I'll say it again: I think the biggest impact of the injuries is the ripple effects they cause in the rotation. Collins goes down and Tolliver becomes the starting PF and Skal moves up to #1 backup C. Hood goes down and Bazemore has to move to SF while Simons plays more SG. And for some reason Stotts is convinced Hezonja is at the top of his 2nd string toolbox

the one silver lining is if Hood doesn't get injured we likely wouldn't have seen how good Trent has become. And the other imjuries have give us glances of Little's potential

I think Trent's outbreak makes some of the injuries feel worse to me. If Nurk isn't hurt I don't think they go get Whiteside (they either keep Harkless around or use those expiring for a better wing than Bazemore (though Bazemore as an 8-9th man might be ok). I totally agree with you that on nights when effort and not getting back on defense hearing oh the injuries. The depth they built in the offseason was terrible though, they literally had Anthony Tolliver playing Center at times. What's odd about this season is more than anything I think this proves what you've said about CJ, he isn't a star or close to it. If he was finding fillin role players would be much easier. Instead, it's Dame and Whiteside against whoever they play and CJ has looked like just another role player most of the year.

edit: I think where injuries and lack of depth will eventually hurt them is Dame, even if they make the playoffs they're so dependent on Dame he's going to be on fumes, at times I think he is already.

 

[tester551]

I think Trent's outbreak makes some of the injuries feel worse to me. If Nurk isn't hurt I don't think they go get Whiteside (they either keep Harkless around or use those expiring for a better wing than Bazemore (though Bazemore as an 8-9th man might be ok). I totally agree with you that on nights when effort and not getting back on defense hearing oh the injuries. The depth they built in the offseason was terrible though, they literally had Anthony Tolliver playing Center at times. What's odd about this season is more than anything I think this proves what you've said about CJ, he isn't a star or close to it. If he was finding fillin role players would be much easier. Instead, it's Dame and Whiteside against whoever they play and CJ has looked like just another role player most of the year.

edit: I think where injuries and lack of depth will eventually hurt them is Dame, even if they make the playoffs they're so dependent on Dame he's going to be on fumes, at times I think he is already.

Completely agree.

 

[HailBlazers]

In my opinion in Zachs case of the 3 “starters”, he’s the one where I really dont know what his impact would be. It said a lot that they didnt really have a viable back up.

Does Hassan know?

“He is a phenomenal shot blocker...even if he gets dunked on, he keeps going, keeps jumping...it wears on guys.” He said that Collins is the best shot blocker he has played alongside, so he is looking forward to how the paint looks like with the two of them on defense.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Does Hassan know?

“He is a phenomenal shot blocker...even if he gets dunked on, he keeps going, keeps jumping...it wears on guys.” He said that Collins is the best shot blocker he has played alongside, so he is looking forward to how the paint looks like with the two of them on defense.

I was really looking forward to seeing those two on defense too. If you go back before the season the thing I was most excited for was those two defensively. The answer is none of us know and Hassan may or may not know, he had ankle issues in training camp and only played a couple games together, before Zach went down.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

The Blazers have an obvious weakness... it using $30+ mil of the salary cap on CJ. It is such an easy fix. The problem is the guy in charge doesn’t want to admit he is wrong and will never entertain trading CJ. Trent is the 2 way SG we have been looking for. Trade CJ for a SF like Oubre and this team is set. I don’t think we can rely on Melo and Ariza next season... their age really shows at moments.

 

[Shaboid]

The Blazers have an obvious weakness... it using $30+ mil of the salary cap on CJ. It is since an easy fix. The problem is the guy in charge doesn’t want to admit he is wrong and will never entertain trading CJ. Trent is the 2 way SG we have been looking for. Trade CJ for a SF like Oubre and this team is set. I don’t think we can rely on Melo and Ariza next season... their age really shows at moments.

 

[Blazers Roy]

The Blazers have an obvious weakness... it using $30+ mil of the salary cap on CJ. It is such an easy fix. The problem is the guy in charge doesn’t want to admit he is wrong and will never entertain trading CJ. Trent is the 2 way SG we have been looking for. Trade CJ for a SF like Oubre and this team is set. I don’t think we can rely on Melo and Ariza next season... their age really shows at moments.

It's not a "fix".
Now Lillard gets all the defensive attention to himself lol.

 

[Blazers Roy]

That 'better fucking team' is below Portland in the standings - the same Portland missing 3 of its 5 starters.......

That guy Zion you just witnessed was out for most of the season.

 

[TBpup]

It's not a "fix".
Now Lillard gets all the defensive attention to himself lol.

As opposed to what teams are doing now?

 

[Blazers Roy]

As opposed to what teams are doing now?

CJ gets more defensive attention than other players.

 

[PCmor7]

We'll make playoffs. Our schedule is much easier than Memphis' and New Orleans'. I don't think it will be close. If we lose tonight, so be it. We weren't going to win out. There will be losses along the way.

How confident are you in this prediction right now?

 

[hoopsjock]

Would it be better/more accurate if people said Portland is missing their best Center, Power Forward, and Small Forward?

According to our wonderful GM our current center is elite and one of the best centers in the league yet he then used the missing 3/5 of their starters excuse in the very next response.

Also, they struggled a lot when Hood was healthy too.

 

[DUB]

It’s disappointing that the refs feel the need to allow Williamson to both jump over the back of people, and drive right into the chest of people without calling fouls. Very quickly people are going to start flopping. Williamson is more than good enough to be a great player without this preferential treatment.