Game 6 Panthers vs. Rangers

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It also continues to be mindboggling how inept this franchise is with the goalie pulled, regular or postseason. I can't remember the last time they scored an EN goal, Richards maybe against the Caps in the playoffs?
 
Remember back in the day, when the league was much more brutal, would it ever be imaginable that a team's top scorers would not score for 9-11 straight games? We have a really good regular season team. We don't have the toughness needed to be a real good playoff team. And unfortunately, a few of our top scorers are weaklings. The sad thing is there will not be much change in how this team looks next season. We have 20 million dollars tied up in 2 players who are supposed to be the guys we look to when it comes to scoring goals. They were mostly invisible over the past month.
 
NYR_94 said:
This is sad but true. Do you want to be Hank, an all-time great HOF'er, but no Cup. If Igor wants a Cup he has to get out of here when he can. He's a UFA after next season, why re-sign here?
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Because most of the teams that are as good a team as the Rangers are (during the season anyway) already have great goaltending. Or have a great defense that makes their goaltending look solid. Igor is going to get paid a large amount by the Rangers, he isn't going to walk away from that IMO.
 
NYR31 said:
haha, i don’t really watch baseball anymore but checked his stats and the comparison is on point.
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I think that is a Yankee requirement over the past 20 years or so. Even their best players seem to turn into .200 hitters in the playoffs.
 
Stepupstepan said:
He goes back to east west because other team takes his space away and surround him with two defenders. He panics and reverts back to east west garbage.
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Exactly this, the best teams find ways to take that pressure off of their top players. You need to gameplan for that. And you need to be willing to do that hard work that will open up things a bit for these players. And mostly they need to be open to doing that. Panarin has far too much talent to look and play as passive as he did in this series.
 
I am down with Messier becoming the team's President. But like a few of you have already mentioned, not being able to move a few of these expensive pieces (due to NMC) will hamstring this team for the next year or more. The toughness issue is easy to see though, it even happens during the regular season. When you ALWAYS have trouble scoring 5 on 5, that is a big problem.
 
Fox being as poor as he was, injury or not, really hurt them most, as he's the cog that directs the pp and offense in general.
 
If it is me, step one is getting rid of Drury. The guy needs to go, he is in over his head, and has been since day one. And he made it worse by his disgraceful trade DL performance, that ended any real shot for the Rangers to win the Cup, and that is not a second guess, me and a few others said it real time on trade DL day. You have cap space and bring in Wennberg, two goals overall as a Ranger, won 44% of his FO's., and Roslovic who had 4 points in 12 games, didn't score in 9 of the 12 against the Canes and Panthers, those are your moves after last year's DL disgrace, he needs to go.

After that you need to see if you can trade Zibanejad, East West, Kakko, and what can you do with Chytil, Trouba, do you let Fox stay and start his NMC next July? Whoever the Pres/GM is needs to be bold and remake this team best they can, because year after year coming up small in big spots it is clear as day to anyone watching, these players are not good enough, and are soft when it matters most. If one takes nothing else from it, that is the takeaway, real changes MUST be made if the goal truly is winning the Cup. I really hope people don't fall into the it's Florida trap. That doesn't explain the same results in big spots scoring 0 or 1 goal year after year. Florida is very good, the Rangers being the same old Rangers is NOT about Florida.

You need to be bold, aggressive, and take some chances that may or may not work out, but you have to do it otherwise why even give a sh*t about next season if they 95% run this same team back, with the same top guys again.

Boldness and balls are what is needed now, I know Drury has neither, but hopefully Sather and Dolan fire him and bring in someone who does have them, maybe Messier who is the one winner in this organization in 84 years.
 
Even Miller is an absolute waste. A defensive liability quite often and doesn’t add what he should offensively. I’m sorry if he has mental issues but he plays like he’s a small guy and doesn’t add anything close to what he should.
 
You are right about Miller; he does make a decent amount of bonehead plays for a player with his skillset and doesn't hit enough for a player of his size. With that said, I would not trade him, and I would look to lock him up long term. I think he has the potential to be a special player if he continues to improve on the same trajectory. Maybe I will be wrong on him, but I think his ceiling is very high, and Miller is a guy I stick with, especially if you deal Fox.
 
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I gotta tell you, some of the comments from East West in this article made me laugh:

Rangers' Artemi Panarin couldn't snap out of offensive malaise in time (nypost.com)

I truly think these guys don't know what it takes to win in big, tough, in your face, lay it on the line spots. Guys like Mika and East West say words that do not equal the situation, and do not show they really truly get it or give a crap.

If nothing else sinks in, I really hope the people in power with the Rangers understand this is not about Florida, this is not a one off, this is not a let's run it back 95%+, there needs to be changes and boldness and balls are needed now to make those changes, not scared little boys like Drury to curl up in the fetal position.

Take the past 3 seasons with this core group:

1 goal in games 4, 5, and 6 against TB as they were eliminated.
0 or 1 goal in 4 of 5 against NJ as they were eliminated.
1 and 0 goals in games 5 and 6 against Florida as they were eliminated (I refuse to count the meaningless goals they scored after the game was decided against Florida in games 5 and 6).

That is a clear trend, not oh Florida was too good. Boldness is needed now if the goal is to win the Cup; will they have the balls to do what needs to be done.


I like one line from the Brooks article this morning, the rest of it is a bunch of fluff and BS IMO:

When push came to shove, the Rangers were shoved out of the playoffs and that should never be allowed to happen again.


This is the point, real changes are needed if the goal is the Cup.
 
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Got beat by a better team. Tip your hat to them. Now Drury has to find another level.
 
Absolutely 100% tip your cap to the Panthers, they were the better team and deserved to win. Cannot take one thing away from them, they earned it and deserve accolades for getting it done.

The issue is this is bigger than just one series against Florida though, it is the same theme every season with this core, come up small, outmuscled, not enough grit and toughness, not enough ability to do the things that are needed to win in the playoffs. Same year after year. The biggest mistake that can be made now is acting as if it was just Florida and let's bring this team back with a minor tweak or two. No way, there needs to be real change here, otherwise we will be in the exact same spot next year around this time.

When you make the ECF 5 times in 13 years, and lose 4 of those 5 times, that is a clear message you need to improve if the Cup is the goal, and fringe moves around the edges is not the answer. Now do you risk maybe not even making it to the ECF if you make some bold moves and they don't work out, yes you do, but that should not change the plan unless you are happy making it to the ECF every 2 or 3 years, and then getting rolled out. I for one am not, and even if you were okay with it, it's old now and been done, it is Stanley Cup or bust IMO, that should be the ONLY goal, and to get there tough decisions need to be made, and some risks need to be taken. Not status quo and fringe tweaks, which have not worked.

Look at what Neil Smith did in 94, major swings that if they failed in 94, he would have been destroyed for, but they worked, and he is a hero. No risk no reward and making an ECF run every 2 or 3 seasons is no longer good enough, Stanley Cup or bust and bold decisions and risks are needed to remake the mix of this team. Toughness, grit, and a burning to win are what is needed. Soft fat cat scared or incapable of doing what you need to do to win in the playoffs little boys are no longer needed and need to be purged from the team this summer, looking at Zibanejad, East West, and Kakko for starters.
 
As I suspected last year GG wasn't the problem, there is a culture of softness among the top players which GG saw and confronted Drury about and instead of solving the problem Chris fired GG. Most on this board felt the same about GG and that the hiring of the AV 2.0 was going to be the difference and most importantly the Rangers could move away from that trashy, gritty style back to the beautiful game of 5 passes and a tap in. Lav is 1 for 5 now in Conference finals and I'd attribute his Cup win to Brindamour who was a one man wrecking crew on both sides of the puck.

I know what the Rangers have in the big hearted, small bodied minors Journeyman Jonny and know how little impact he'll have in a game but have no idea what type of player they have in Matt Rempe. His upside is tremendous, 17 pro games under his belt coming into postseason and right away he scored against the Craps, leveled a few devastating hits getting penalized and that's it, no postseason developmental experience for the rookie, just a handful of minutes.

I said after the TB series Fox has to go and with his NTC looming Drury has to make the trade. The much maligned Trouba isn't going anywhere which makes me happy, he'll continue to do what he was signed to do - hit and block shots at an elite level. Schneider was awful, even in the Caps series he was running scared turning the puck over repeatedly and making poor outlet pass decisions. I'd chalk much of it up to youth but I thought he was a much more physical player than he showed.
 
Neil Smith went overboard in 94. He didn’t need to trade all of the young players. He ruined the future of the team. That team already had Messier, Leetch, Graves Larmer and Richter. Who do they have on this team who comes close to those guys in terms of leadership and mental toughness?
 
If this proves anything, it's who the coach is doesn't matter or make a difference. They made it to the same spot with Lav as that did with Gallant, and failed both times, what is the common theme, the players and Drury. I'll speak for myself, I was not a Gallant fan, and wanted a change, but it had very little to do with the NJ loss, I said it then and I'll say it now God could have coached that team, and they would have lost that series, because the players cannot get it done.

So, I don't think getting into Lav or Gallant comparisons means a darn thing, or you calling Lav AV 2.0, which I am sorry but is not the case, if anyone was AV 2.0 it was Gallant with his lack of a strategy or discipline or structure, not Lav who instilled all those things. But it doesn't matter anyway. The focus should be whether it was Gallant, or Lav, the same exact results happened, fell apart and lost the ECF in 6 games, going down with an absolute inability to score goals and do the dirty work needed to win in the playoffs. That is the players, not the coach. Went from Gallant to Lav and the results were the same, do the math people. The ceiling for this core of players is the ECF, that has become very clear.

There needs to be changes to the roster, and not on the edges, real changes to key core guys. And I think Drury has shown he cannot get it done, and should be gone, but I highly doubt that happens, so it most likely isn't even worth harping on.

That needs to be the takeaway, and I hope the Rangers leadership sees that and doesn't take any other message away from this predictable rinse and repeat result.
 
Stepupstepan said:
Neil Smith went overboard in 94. He didn’t need to trade all of the young players. He ruined the future of the team. That team already had Messier, Leetch, Graves Larmer and Richter. Who do they have on this team who comes close to those guys in terms of leadership and mental toughness?
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I don't disagree with you on the surface but guess what, he/they won. None of us can say for sure if he makes one less move, they still win, we do not know that, and to the victor goes the spoils.

I am not saying you get rid of all the kids and make moves for the sake of making moves, but you cannot be weak or middle of the road about this, the core of this team and their top players needs to change. It doesn't mean all of them, but some of them for sure. If all the top guys are back, and the team is essentially the same outside of the fringe edges, it is a failure, end of story. Real changes are needed.
 
Ponzer
You don’t pay 8.5 million to a dmen for some hits and blocked shots.
 
At $8M per year, I always felt Trouba was a decent value, but after he came back from injury, he was very bad IMO, hits and blocked shots notwithstanding. I am going to chalk that up to not being 100%, and/or struggling to get his game back after injury. I would hope he is back to his normal solid self-next season. Not a great dman, and maybe more of a $6M to $6.5M guy for the attributes he brings, and someone we can use, but not the mess he was in the playoffs.
 
Neil Smith did what he had to in order to win the cup. It was his moves after that killed them for years.
 
Trouba was never an offensive player Step, clearly you're forgetting the days of Hank getting run over. I would have been happy with McQuaid, any big physical dman but Trouba is elite, the stats don't lie and you seem to be content paying a non physical dman who hasn't scored a post season goal in over 2 years more money. Smith would have been brilliant if he paid Messier, letting the Captain walk and scrambling for an inferior replacement while Mess carried a shitty Canook team into the postseason for 3 years.

There is a vast difference between Av/Lav and GG Chuck, AV and Lav punish physical play with benching as AV did with CK and Lav did with Rempe while GG had an over the hill Reaves getting significant minutes to keep the peace. Do you really believe GG, an ex-grinder from the Wings, would give a guy like Rempe a handful of minutes when the Panthers are running Igor? The only similarity is neither can convince the top liners to play physical hockey and I agree no coach will, trades have to be made to shake up the comfort level.
 
We'll agree to disagree there Panzer. I do not think benching the 12th forward Rempe, who added whatever level value and didn't stop Florida from doing what they do (that is not a knock, good teams are going to do what they do), is Lav punishing physical play. I think he was searching for the right mix, which is why he played many different lineups and lines over the past handful plus of games, and Rempe played in most of them. I do not think that playing Rempe as the 12th forward in game 6 would have changed the outcome, any more than it did in games 4 and 5. And if he did play Rempe, I would have been fine with that also. Not a game changing decision IMO.

Either way, I think the main point holds, this isn't about the coach, same end results under Gallant and Lav. Wasn't Gallant's fault last season, isn't Lav's fault this season, while of course acknowledging the coach has responsibility for results. Big picture it is the players who are not the right mix for the job, not the two coaches who have both produced similar results, which is no surprise.
 
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Came out today, Trouba broke his ankle in March, and sounds like he was good to play, but still had pain. No excuses, he was not good, but it makes sense as he was really bad once he came back, certainly visibly worse than pre the injury, so at least there was a reason.

And Fox re-aggravated his knee injury in game 4 against the Caps. Again, no surprise as he didn't do much against the Canes and early in the Panthers series, but you saw him doing more later in the series as he started to heal.

All teams have injuries, so no excuse for why we lost, but at least with these two guys you can have hope they will be better and hopefully back to normal next season. Mika on the other hand, yeah that is just soft and lacking fight.
 
Not surprising, you could see Fox was just kind of going through the motions without any jump. Trouba you could see was avoiding things somewhat too. Sucks as we maybe missed a big chance in part because of these things, but what can you do. Fox struggles did affect 10 and Z on the pp.
 
A competent coach would have put Laf on PP1 and moved Fox to PP2 or tried different line combos to shake things up or at the very least drop the minutes of the underperformers but Lav just stood there behind the bench, never even called out the poor officiating on cheap play.
 
So, play no dmen on PP1, that would be interesting and a first in the league on a regular PP. Lav also changed the lines and the lineup just about every single game for the last 10 or so playoff games. It was the players under Gallant, which I agree with, but with virtually the same team (Trocheck instead of Strome/Copp the main difference) it is Lav this time, that doesn't add up to me.

I think both coaches were let down by players who are just not good enough to get it done in big spots and have proven that year after year. That's what I see when a team comes up short year after year with multiple coaches, with just about the same players. I was for Gallant going, but not because I blamed him for everything, it was the players that letdown Gallant, and it is virtually the same players who let down Lav. Bowman in his prime wouldn't win with these players, just like Gallant AND Lav haven't.
 
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Why no one ever thought to use Miller on the PP, couldnt be any worse than Fox, especially carrying the puck through the neutral zone to start the PP. Fox couldnt skate for most of the series. Miller's best attributes is puck handling .
He could have split Mika and Kreider...or perhaps used Laff on RW with them ... or he could have moved Kreider to Vinny T and Laff and had bread with Mika... everyone was complaining the big guns didnt do enough...well split them up..get them off Barkov...

There seemed to be too many offensive zone faceoffs that Weinberg started..and too many defensive zone faceoffs that Z's line was on for.
 
At the end of the day, they didn’t have enough secondary scoring to make up for top guns not showing up in big spots against Florida. Not sure if changing the lines would make a huge difference. If you look now at secondary scoring there’s a big dropoff in points. I think typically the team that wins the cup has more evenly distributed scoring throughout the lineup.
 
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