Game Thread GAME# 7: BLAZERS @ WARRIORS - NOVEMBER 4, 2019 - MONDAY, 7:30 PM, NBATV & NBCSNW

[PCmor7]

ok...I'll be honest, I'm kinda pissed but I'm also chuckling because that was such a damn chucklehead clown show.

I refrained from posting because I couldn't decide between jokes and bile; between sarcasm and steam

now, it's just yucks and chuckles...those seem to be perfect for what I just saw
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I know a lot of people keep saying that but I ave a hard time believing it and I'm growing more and more skeptical. Tonight sure didn't help the case

and yeah, the Blazers will eventually find a groove and put together a good stretch of games. I don't think they are more talented than last year's team though, no matter how many times people keep chanting the refrain. The only hope is that somehow they'll have better chemistry, but last year was the result of 3-4 years of building chemistry. That's gone

Like I just said in another post, better talent man for man. But there are a lot of teams constructed of superior talent that don't play well together for whatever reason. Where the unit is less than the sum of its parts. That's what I see at the moment. And I'm not sure ... it might be lack of familiarity, but it just doesn't feel that way to me.

 

[Tince]

Hood is definitely a starter in the NBA.

I'm impressed you have yet to answer the question. Any forward who starts is an NBA starter, we agree there. You want to answer my original question yet? You can pick Baze and Hood or Tolliver and Hood, I'm willing to work with you here. Are either of the two a high quality starting forward combo?

 

[AldoTrapani]

How we know we aren’t that good this year is we were down almost all game, so it's not like it was a crazy run

 

[PCmor7]

If no one else wanted to sign him, we'd still have him. He had a second year on his contract with us though it was a player option.

Stop the hyperbolic nonsense. You aren't that clueless. You know what I mean. He's a good player but not anything great. There were teams with more money than us willing to sign him. But he wasn't this great free agent target.

People liked him here because he was good and a good fit. Is Simons going to be better than him in a year or two? I'd say almost absolutely.

 

[BlazerBeav]

Tince, again, Hood and Baze or Tolliver and Baze are not the starting combo - certainly not as intended - so your argument is moot.

 

[Chris Craig]

Like I just said in another post, better talent man for man. But there are a lot of teams constructed of superior talent that don't play well together for whatever reason. Where the unit is less than the sum of its parts. That's what I see at the moment. And I'm not sure ... it might be lack of familiarity, but it just doesn't feel that way to me.

Yeah something feels wrong. Maybe it is just because we have yet to see the full team assembled. We are a totally different team with Nurkic.

 

[KingSpeed]

How we know we aren’t that good this year is we were down almost all game, so it's not like it was a crazy run

Weren't we up at half?

 

[OneSport3]

Upgrade from the worst starting forward combo in the league, I don't disagree. My question continues to be, are our starting forwards high quality starting NBA forwards? People really don't want to answer this question for some reason.

When you roll out two substandard starting forwards, you make your entire team susceptible to nights like tonight.

Upgrade from the worst starting forward combo in the league, I don't disagree. My question continues to be, are our starting forwards high quality starting NBA forwards? People really don't want to answer this question for some reason.

When you roll out two substandard starting forwards, you make your entire team susceptible to nights like tonight.

Against a team that even my friends who are die hard Warriors fans have difficulty naming the players? Give me a break.

Hood and Bazemore are definitely better than Paschall and Robinson III.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Terry looks like hes about to cry in post game conference

Good. Wait until he sees the torches and pitchforks.

Hood is definitely a starter in the NBA.

For reals. This loss tonight was not on him. Not by a mile. Not that I'm saying anyone said that.

Like I just said in another post, better talent man for man. But there are a lot of teams constructed of superior talent that don't play well together for whatever reason. Where the unit is less than the sum of its parts. That's what I see at the moment. And I'm not sure ... it might be lack of familiarity, but it just doesn't feel that way to me.

That's because it's not. This is the same old shit year after year after year. We are slow as fuck, and stuck in horrible, boring ISO ball. And it's because Terry Stotts is stuck in 2009, instead of 2019.

 

[Tince]

Tince, again, Hood and Baze or Tolliver and Baze are not the starting combo - certainly not as intended - so your argument is moot.

Ok, who are our current starting forwards that the coaching staff is failing to make quality starters? I can't really blame the coaches for Nurk and Collins not contributing tonight, but I'm sure some here could

 

[Bruno_Sabino]

Losing to a G-League team is far more embarrassing than losing a 20+ point lead at home on a last second shot... just sayin.

Yeah

 

[Scalma]

Rebounding remains an issue. You know who’s a good rebounder? Nassir Little.

 

[Tince]

Against a team that even my friends who are die hard Warriors fans have difficulty naming the players? Give me a break.

Hood and Bazemore are definitely better than Paschall and Robinson III.

I'm down giving you a 6th chance on what appears to be a very very difficult question: Yes or no, should either Baze/Hood or Tolliver/Hood be considered a high quality starting forward duo? I think we both know the answer is no, but for some reason you do not want to say it. Why is that?

 

[bobf]

Better talent. Without question.

Bazemore himself is better than either Chief or Mo, and he comes off the bench. Curry was OK, but let's not kid ourselves that the NBA was beating down his door to sign him. He's a good shooter and a willing if often overmatched defender. Chief and Mo were inconsistent and offensive liabilities.

Herzonja, athletically and potentially, is at least equal to Chief and Mo, and he comes off the bench whereas they started. But he doesn't fit as well on this team. Whiteside is one of the best defensive interior presences in the NBA and an efficient offensive player.

Here's the other thing: You went from a starting lineup last year of Dame, CJ, Mo, Chief and Nurk to a starting lineup this year of Dame, CJ, Hood, Zach and Whiteside. If you are going to say player for player the latter isn't a better lineup, I don't think you know what you are talking about. The rest of last year's rotation was Evan Turner, Curry, Stauskas, Zach and Meyers Leonard. This year it's Ant (who it looks like is going to have similar stats to Curry), Baze, Herzonja, Tolliver and Skal. Again, if you think the former is better than the latter, I strongly disagree.

But the former performed much better. Because a team is a collection of individuals, not just individuals.

Herzonja is garbage and doesn't fit well on any good team. Neither Bazemore nor Hood are as good as Chief or Harkless. Best advanced stats BPM & RPM agree with me and it's not close. W/L record will also agree with me even once we get Collins back. Nurk is way way better than Whiteside, altough Whiteside is a good player. You can't compare Collins to Aminu since we should have both of them.

 

[wizenheimer]

Like I just said in another post, better talent man for man

I know that's what you said but I'm just not buying it

Aminu-Kanter-Harkless-Curry-Layman-Meyers-Turner

were replaced by

Whiteside-Bazemore-Hezonja-Tolliver-Little-Gasol

how is the 2nd group more talented than the first? You just can't make any credible argument for the assertion other than blind faith and Olshey bullshit; especially considering the age of Tolliver & Gasol...

....and especially considering that Nurkic was talent the rotation had last year and might not have till February; and even then might not be anywhere near what he was last season

 

[PCmor7]

Yeah something feels wrong. Maybe it is just because we have yet to see the full team assembled. We are a totally different team with Nurkic.

One of things that I have noticed are Baze and Herzonja don't play within themselves the way Mo and Chief did. Like they don't quite seem to understand they are role players or what their roles are and they try to do too much, particularly with the dribbling and the passing.

Another is body language. Mostly the new guys. Whereas our guys last year seemed to, I don't know, have a pride and a quiet confidence, these guys seem almost aloof, cocky, detached. Maybe that's unfair to say, because I can't read their minds, but they just don't look as engaged as the guys the last couple of years. You know, like maybe they feel like fill-ins or something, not really as committed to the organization or the city as the other guys we had here.

And it even looks to me like Dame is frustrated. Again, it could be just me. But facial expressions, body language. I don't know. It just feels off.

 

[OneSport3]

I'm impressed you have yet to answer the question. Any forward who starts is an NBA starter, we agree there. You want to answer my original question yet? You can pick Baze and Hood or Tolliver and Hood, I'm willing to work with you here. Are either of the two a high quality starting forward combo?

Newsflash, most teams don’t have the luxury to have all of their positions

I'm down giving you a 6th chance on what appears to be a very very difficult question: Yes or no, should either Baze/Hood or Tolliver/Hood be considered a high quality starting forward duo? I think we both know the answer is no, but for some reason you do not want to say it. Why is that?

Newsflash, most teams don’t have high quality starters at all positions. Hood is definitely high quality, Tolliver not so much. I answered your question.

The Clippers start Patrick Patterson at forward, Nuggets start Torrey Craig.

 

[Tince]

Newsflash, most teams don’t have the luxury to have all of their positions


Newsflash, most teams don’t have high quality starters at all positions. Hood is definitely high quality, Tolliver not so much. I answered your question.

The Clippers start Patrick Patterson at forward, Nuggets start Torrey Craig.

If you think Hood is a high quality starting SF, I don't think we can have a reasonable discussion moving forward. I like the guy, but he's been wildly inconsistent his entire career, was traded for two benchwarmers, and has never made more than the MLE in his career. You would be hard pressed to find many starting SFs that meet that criteria.

We agree, Tolliver is hot garbage (as a starter).

Back to my original point: when you start sub-standard forwards, you are going to be liable to have performances like tonight. It comes with the territory when you have a roster (with injuries) like this.

 

[PCmor7]

I know that's what you said but I'm just not buying it

Aminu-Kanter-Harkless-Curry-Layman-Meyers-Turner

were replaced by

Whiteside-Bazemore-Hezonja-Tolliver-Little-Gasol

how is the 2nd group more talented than the first? You just can't make any credible argument for the assertion other than blind faith and Olshey bullshit; especially considering the age of Tolliver & Gasol...

....and especially considering that Nurkic was talent the rotation had last year and might not have till February; and even then might not be anywhere near what he was last season

Kanter and Hood played like a quarter of the season with us, so I didn't count them. We could get someone at the trade deadline this year that would be on a par with their acquisitions.

And what blind faith and Olshey bs? I was pretty clear I thought the Tolliver and Pau signings were misguided in the overall scheme of things. But I don't see how anyone can look at last year's rotation for the first 55 games last year man for man and make any reasonable argument that it's more talented that this year's, going off of actual performance heading into this season.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think this is the ultimate tribute to our 1st season!

Current record: 3-4

Record from 50 years ago....

 

[PCmor7]

If Pau was brought in to be effectively a mentor/template for Zach, that makes sense. But then I don't see why you sign Tolliver. They needed to sign a reserve big who you could be confident could play and not kill you.

 

[Jade Falcon]

If you think Hood is a high quality starting SF, I don't think we can have a reasonable discussion moving forward. I like the guy, but he's been wildly inconsistent his entire career, was traded for two benchwarmers, and has never made more than the MLE in his career. You would be hard pressed to find many starting SFs that meet that criteria.

We agree, Tolliver is hot garbage (as a starter).

Back to my original point: when you start sub-standard forwards, you are going to be liable to have performances like tonight. It comes with the territory when you have a roster (with injuries) like this.

With respect, there needs to be some perspective here. Hood was on a disjointed Cleveland team and he didn't fit there, which is why he was "wildly inconsistent". Since he's been here, he's been nothing but a joy. In my mind anyways.

 

[OneSport3]

If you think Hood is a high quality starting SF, I don't think we can have a reasonable discussion moving forward. I like the guy, but he's been wildly inconsistent his entire career, was traded for two benchwarmers, and has never made more than the MLE in his career. You would be hard pressed to find many starting SFs that meet that criteria.

We agree, Tolliver is hot garbage (as a starter).

Back to my original point: when you start sub-standard forwards, you are going to be liable to have performances like tonight. It comes with the territory when you have a roster (with injuries) like this.

Hood was a quality starter in Utah and got lost in LeBron’s shadow in Cleveland. He’s definitely an upgrade over Aminu and hardly substandard. He would have definitely made more than the MLE this season but he chose to take a pay cut and come back to Portland.

This roster had no excuse, even with all of the injuries, to lose to that roster the Warriors had.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I was hoping we'd win so I could see all the Stotts fans come in and give him credit for the comeback win. I'll have to wait for the next one...

 

[Tince]

With respect, there needs to be some perspective here. Hood was on a disjointed Cleveland team and he didn't fit there, which is why he was "wildly inconsistent". Since he's been here, he's been nothing but a joy. In my mind anyways.

Agreed on the Cleveland part, but we need to be honest and say if 29 other NBA teams thought he was a stud SF, Cleveland would've got a lot better offers. Even if you take Hood at his word he could've got more money than the MLE this summer, it's hard to believe it was much more. This really speaks to the value the rest of the league gives him.

I really like Hood off the bench as a spark plug for the nights he is feeling it. However, my entire point in this thread is that when you start guys like Hood (and worse), you are going to lose games you shouldn't lose. I'm not saying Hood is trash, but he's not a solid starting SF either.

 

[Tince]

Hood was a quality starter in Utah and got lost in LeBron’s shadow in Cleveland. He’s definitely an upgrade over Aminu and hardly substandard. He would have definitely made more than the MLE this season but he chose to take a pay cut and come back to Portland.

This roster had no excuse, even with all of the injuries, to lose to that roster the Warriors had.

This Portland team would beat this GS taem in a series, I think we all agree on that. When you throw out random rosters in November and think upsets like this don't happen, you haven't been watching the NBA long enough. Tonight wasn't the first time an 11pt home underdog won and I'd bet it will happen again this season!

It was frustrating to watch. Stotts, Olshey, the players, the injuries, they're all to blame.

 

[Sarni]

If Pau was brought in to be effectively a mentor/template for Zach, that makes sense. But then I don't see why you sign Tolliver. They needed to sign a reserve big who you could be confident could play and not kill you.

They aren’t really out there to be signed though. Can’t think of many quality bigs signed for minimum deal last offseason that would have considered us.

 

[Driew]

Tonight wasn't the first time an 11pt home underdog won and I'd bet it will happen again this season!

Especially with NBA refs betting on those bets and gifting 36 free throws to our 14 lol.

 

[LayneStaley]

The worst part of this night is we are once again part of Warrior trivia. As in who did the Warriors get their first win at Chase stadium against. lol fuck them

 

[B-Roy]

Got back from the game, what a ride.

Chase Center is amazing. Of course, it's brand new, but there were a ton of empty seats. Understandable, but the arena is genuinely miles better than Oracle.

Unfortunately, that was the highlight of my experience. The Blazers came out with no effort and basically expecting the Warriors to roll over. That got settled quick.

Some observations:

Dame played really well offensively. Defensively, he mailed it in. He basically wasn't trying on defense in the first three quarters. Despite that, he's the only guy that I could say played well overall.

Hassan Whiteside is not the problem, but he's definitely not the answer. Put him in any sort of movement on defense and he's like a fish out of water. He never gets back in transition. When he only has to stay in one position to defend a shot he's quite good. But my main problem is that the Blazers look so bad offensively when he's in the game. Particularly Dame just looks like he's struggling to get to his spots. Hassan is such a slow roller and Dame is so explosive the combination doesn't seem to work. Interestingly enough, the CJ/Whiteside pick and roll looked good a few times, maybe because both guys move at the same slow pace. Might try to exploit that bit more. Really though, Hassan is a backup center on a championship team....

Speaking of CJ, what the fuck is going on? My friend, who doesn't really watch the Blazers basically said during the game "I never knew CJ was such a ballhog". The Warriors treated him like Dame and blitzed him with two guys all night. Seems teams are now actively taking away his midrange jumper, and CJ is responding by making awful attempts at the rim and jacking up contested 3s. Good god.

This Warriors G-League team passes better than us. Why does our team never pass the ball? In the 4th quarter when the Blazers were playing full court press the Warriors group broke the pressure with no problem. Watching the Blazers try to break full court press is an exercise in trying not to gouge your eyes out.

The irony with Stotts's offense is that he empowers guys to be creators, but doesn't put them in position to do so. For better or worse this is what we're stuck with. There's no point firing him now as there's no way someone can come in and install a new offense/defense in the middle of the season.