George Karl on what's wrong with basketball (and the Blazers)

[blue9]

With all the anti-Lillard sentiment around here, especially regarding his shooting efficiency, I have to ask--is it in fact Dame who is our Monta, and CJ our Curry?

Eeek - I've actually been thinking about that. With CJ being taller, a better ball-handler, and neither of them being particularly good passers, I wonder if we might be better off with CJ at PG. It also appears that CJ has a long wingspan for his size (can anyone verify this?) - and long arms can help cover up bad defense. I think it's more likely that CJ becomes a good defender (if defending PGs) than it is that Dame becomes a good defender.

Last year CJ sported a much higher FG%. Dame's crazy start to this season has them about equal so far this season, but I wonder what the percentages would look like if those first couple weeks didn't happen. The one area where Lillard really separates himself from CJ is FTA.

I was pretty much of the opinion that we'd need to trade CJ if he wouldn't accept a 6th man role. But, even though I know PR would never allow us to trade Dame, I do wonder if we'd be trading the wrong player.

 

[trailblazer18]

I would love to see Lillard play for a coach who isn't a "player's coach". Totts is the only NBA coach that Lillard has worked under - much the same way McMillan was the only coach Roy played for. Neither player is/was held accountable, but rather catered to, perhaps to the detriment of the team.

That Roy-lead team fell apart once we started getting new players who had played under several coaches. My theory is that they (particularly Camby) came here and saw that McMillan was a joke of a coach. I wonder if Evan Turner might be disappointed in the difference between Stevens (?) and Totts?

I don't agree with this assessment. The Roy led teams began to decline because Roy was getting hurt and his total games played declined over his last three seasons with the team. Granted McMillan needed to go, but if Roy is healthy and continues to play at an All-Star level, who knows, maybe Nate is still around, doubt it and I shutter at that thought.

 

[blue9]

With all of this hate for Dame floating around one might think he is our next LaMarsha...

Aside from Tunchi, I don't think anyone is hating on Dame. But it's fair to criticize his shortcomings, and compare him to other players. However, there's no comparison to be made between him and Aldridge.

 

[blue9]

I don't agree with this assessment. The Roy led teams began to decline because Roy was getting hurt and his total games played declined over his last three seasons with the team. Granted McMillan needed to go, but if Roy is healthy and continues to play at an All-Star level, who knows, maybe Nate is still around, doubt it and I shutter at that thought.

Sure, W/L was affected by Roy's inability to play. But the team morale went down the tubes once we had players who had played under other coaches - prior to those trades nearly every player on our roster had ONLY played for Nate, so they didn't know anything better.

 

[trailblazer18]

Aside from Tunchi, I don't think anyone is hating on Dame. But it's fair to criticize his shortcomings, and compare him to other players. However, there's no comparison to be made between him and Aldridge.

You are right, not really hate, but the thought of even trading him or thinking CJ could be the man over him is a bit extreme I think. Every team who has a superstar caliber player has to live and die with the decisions that player makes and how they play.

 

[Trackjack]

Dame does take bad shots and no Stotts doesn't hold him accountable. Last game toward end of the game it was CJ trying to do everything not getting everyone involve. This team goes when everyone involve they better both ends of the court. But when see both guards trying to get there and ignoring the other especially in the 4th QT. the other player stop working out there there saying here we go again. Do I think one these guys need to be traded no but I do think these guys need start playing team ball all 4 Qt. and I believe CJ need to be the 6th man due to defense liability of our back court.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Eeek - I've actually been thinking about that. With CJ being taller, a better ball-handler, and neither of them being particularly good passers, I wonder if we might be better off with CJ at PG. It also appears that CJ has a long wingspan for his size (can anyone verify this?) - and long arms can help cover up bad defense. I think it's more likely that CJ becomes a good defender (if defending PGs) than it is that Dame becomes a good defender.

Last year CJ sported a much higher FG%. Dame's crazy start to this season has them about equal so far this season, but I wonder what the percentages would look like if those first couple weeks didn't happen. The one area where Lillard really separates himself from CJ is FTA.

I was pretty much of the opinion that we'd need to trade CJ if he wouldn't accept a 6th man role. But, even though I know PR would never allow us to trade Dame, I do wonder if we'd be trading the wrong player.

McCollum's raw percentages are better than Lillard's across the board, but Lillard's TS% is higher because (as you said) he draws so many more free throws. But aside from raw percentages, Dame's numbers in pretty much every other main area (PER, reb%, ast%, WS, BPM, ortg) are superior. If Dame is going to be out much longer though, we're going to get a better sample size on this "CJ running the team" idea.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

You guys are all talking about Dame's on-court stuff, but reading between the lines with the Melo comments in context, it sure sounds to me like George Karl is referring to his extensive off-court activities being the issue.

First, in answer to a couple other comments; I don't think there is any hate for Lillard on the board or a desire for him to leave. If there is a problem I would like to see the team figure out what it is and fix it internally.
I think that Karl might be implying that if a player is so focused on outside activities, that they may not have the energy to see what is happening internally with their team. This is all fixable.

 

[Trackjack]

One player that needs show case himself is Crabbe it is great opportunity for him to show that he can be starter in this league. Second show everyone he deserve his contract.

 

[Driew]

You guys are all talking about Dame's on-court stuff, but reading between the lines with the Melo comments in context, it sure sounds to me like George Karl is referring to his extensive off-court activities being the issue.

Which is what LA sort of hinted about why he he left Portland. Lillard wasn't necessarily focused on just basketball.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Which is what LA sort of hinted about why he he left Portland. Lillard wasn't necessarily focused on just basketball.

Neither was LMA. You hear about his shoe house?

 

[jlprk]

Totts is the only NBA coach that Lillard has worked under - much the same way McMillan was the only coach Roy played for. Neither player is/was held accountable, but rather catered to...That Roy-lead team fell apart once we started getting new players who had played under several coaches. My theory is that they (particularly Camby) came here and saw that McMillan was a joke of a coach. I wonder if Evan Turner might be disappointed in the difference between Stevens (?) and Totts?

Hey, that's the theory I used to post...that I define "experience" not in years, but in how many systems a player's played in. Playing for 3 coaches in 3 years raises BBIQ much more than playing for one coach for 6 years. Until McMillan's last year here, he mainly had players who had started here and never experienced a better coach. In his last year, veteran players came in and could see that the Emperor had no clothes. Authority-worshipper Jason Quick kept crying that the players had turned on McMillan, and I said, yes because they're smarter.

As for Turner, he doesn't want to take long shots, which he knows he can't make, but Stotts yells at him that the system requires it or the other team will move their defense away from him. I'm sure Turner is shocked by the stupidity.

 

[Driew]

Neither was LMA. You hear about his shoe house?

I'm aware--but I think LA realized there could only be one star player on the team worried about their accolades off the court lol

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If "off-the-court" interests really damaged a team, then the Cavs would be totally fucked, given all of LeBron's non-basketball concerns. Yet they seem to do fine, don't they?

 

[e_blazer]

George Karl should spend more time figuring out what's wrong with George Karl than in second guessing what's wrong with the Blazers, given that he has absolutely no inside information as to whether the Blazers are as tight of a group as they were last year.

 

[julius]

LaMarcus left Portland because of LaMarcus.

That is not to say Damian doesn't need to improve his game. He needs to work on defense and not forcing shots. Defense would benefit the team far more than him not forcing shots though.

 

[riverman]

This is why so many teams are beating down the doors to hire George......he never noticed how Dame's assists are career high this season. Dame gets to the line more and has added a tear drop to his game...you can play ISO judgement ball on a guy but it's a team sport

 

[BBert]

I thought Karl was talking about both off the court distractions and jealousy.

Also, one could read into it that some individuals (Carmelo) may be more concerned with their personal on-court accolades above the team, because it feeds into their off-court marketability. That's not to say that is the case with Lillard, but Karl seems to think those things were issues with someone he has personal experience with (Carmello) and so maybe (since he doesn't know) these things might be contributing to some of the Blazer woes. Karl basically described a situation he was familiar with (Carmello), and asked if it's possible something similar could be happening with the Blazers (Lillard), because it's a mystery why we are worse than last season.

I would add: Just because Karl seems to have pissed a lot of people off during his career, that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[trailblazer18]

Hey, that's the theory I used to post...that I define "experience" not in years, but in how many systems a player's played in. Playing for 3 coaches in 3 years raises BBIQ much more than playing for one coach for 6 years. Until McMillan's last year here, he mainly had players who had started here and never experienced a better coach. In his last year, veteran players came in and could see that the Emperor had no clothes. Authority-worshipper Jason Quick kept crying that the players had turned on McMillan, and I said, yes because they're smarter.

As for Turner, he doesn't want to take long shots, which he knows he can't make, but Stotts yells at him that the system requires it or the other team will move their defense away from him. I'm sure Turner is shocked by the stupidity.

Hmmm...I think Pop and San Antonio blow this theory out of the water Or they could just be the exception.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

This is why so many teams are beating down the doors to hire George......he never noticed how Dame's assists are career high this season. Dame gets to the line more and has added a tear drop to his game...you can play ISO judgement ball on a guy but it's a team sport

I don't think Karl is thinking Lillard has neglected his basketball game; it's maybe that he has neglected his leadership role, part of which is to find out what is going on in the heads of different individuals and then try to fix it.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

As for Turner, he doesn't want to take long shots, which he knows he can't make, but Stotts yells at him that the system requires it or the other team will move their defense away from him. I'm sure Turner is shocked by the stupidity.

I'm not sure if that is a fair criticism. I remember reading that Turner shot the three quite well for the second half of last season. That would indicate he has the capability and it is better for the team if he can be successful at shooting threes.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Which is what LA sort of hinted about why he he left Portland. Lillard wasn't necessarily focused on just basketball.

I don't remember that; what did he say?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Karl can suck a fat cock, he's the one who has been thirsty for attention.

 

[Driew]

I don't remember that; what did he say?

I can't remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of "I came to the Spurs to win a Championship--certain players in Portland, while very talented, didn't have their focus entirely on basketball".

 

[dviss1]

Ok so after wasting time reading this thread I'll sum it up from my perspective:

Lillard:

• Taking bad shots.
• Not shooting at a good percentage.
• Getting more attention.
• Making music in the offseason.
• Having a bromance with CJ.

Have NOTHING to do with team defense.

Fuck George Karl.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I can't remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of "I came to the Spurs to win a Championship--certain players in Portland, while very talented, didn't have their focus entirely on basketball".

I'm sorry, I call bs on this.

As much as I don't care for how he left, he was under the microscope and everything he said was dissected. I would like to see the actual link where he said this, or its just playground gossip.

 

[MickZagger]

I thought it was pretty obvious coming into the season that we have a flawed roster. We did nothing to fix those flaws. No low post scoring threat, nobody to really protect the rim. Quite frankly, our defense sucked last year, it sucks even worse this year.

I think a deal to shore up some of the clutter might be a necessity. Even if that means one of either McCollum or Lillard need to go.

 

[handiman]

I think that Karl might be implying that if a player is so focused on outside activities, that they may not have the energy to see what is happening internally with their team. This is all fixable.

That might be part of it, but I think it's more a matter of alienating the team when a leader gets too much attention for off-court activities. In a small market like Portland, there's only so much attention to go around. Maybe the other players are jealous of being overshadowed to such a large degree?

Which is what LA sort of hinted about why he he left Portland. Lillard wasn't necessarily focused on just basketball.

I never really got that. I think it was LMA's insecurities boiling over, no longer being the focal point of every front office decision.

If "off-the-court" interests really damaged a team, then the Cavs would be totally fucked, given all of LeBron's non-basketball concerns. Yet they same to do fine, don't they?

Relationships are often more about how things are handled than what actually happened. We see Dame's off-court activities, but we don't see how that plays out behind the scenes. Karl may be totally off his rocker, but he's a hell of a lot more likely to have a pulse on NBA locker room relationships than we are.

I thought Karl was talking about both off the court distractions and jealousy.

Also, one could read into it that some individuals (Carmelo) may be more concerned with their personal on-court accolades above the team, because it feeds into their off-court marketability. That's not to say that is the case with Lillard, but Karl seems to think those things were issues with someone he has personal experience with (Carmello) and so maybe (since he doesn't know) these things might be contributing to some of the Blazer woes. Karl basically described a situation he was familiar with (Carmello), and asked if it's possible something similar could be happening with the Blazers (Lillard), because it's a mystery why we are worse than last season.

I would add: Just because Karl seems to have pissed a lot of people off during his career, that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Bingo! Right or wrong, this seems to be what Karl is saying. He's not talking about Dame's shortcomings as a player. He even ties the two together in terms of Melo being the best offensive player he's ever coached, which perhaps suggests not caring for the defense of either guy but he tip toes around that.

Ok so after wasting time reading this thread I'll sum it up from my perspective:

Lillard:

• Taking bad shots.
• Not shooting at a good percentage.
• Getting more attention.
• Making music in the offseason.
• Having a bromance with CJ.

Have NOTHING to do with team defense.

Fuck George Karl.

If those add up to a fractured locker room, then they have everything to do with bad team defense.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I thought it was pretty obvious coming into the season that we have a flawed roster. We did nothing to fix those flaws. No low post scoring threat, nobody to really protect the rim. Quite frankly, our defense sucked last year, it sucks even worse this year.

I think a deal to shore up some of the clutter might be a necessity. Even if that means one of either McCollum or Lillard need to go.

Mick. I'm sorry tro sound as if I am picking on you, but man so many people posting the same stuff that is just wrong.

We did nothing to address our rim protection?

Olshey pursued elite bigs and they didn't want to come here. So he then signed Ezeli.

No we don't have who we all(including NO) wanted for a C this year, but it doesn't mean we did nothing. We tried and that is doing something.

I'm just soooo tired of people around here saying we didn't do shit.....
Yes we did. Just because plan A didn't work doesn't mean we didn't try.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'm just soooo tired of people around here saying we didn't do shit.....
Yes we did. Just because plan A didn't work doesn't mean we didn't try.

To say that we tried and to say that we didn't do anything are not mutually exclusive statements. We tried to address rim protection, and we failed to do so. Effort does not equal achievement.