Ghadaffi out in Libya

[Denny Crane]

No threads about this? A few observations of my own...

Obama got what he wanted, and certainly the world is better off without another despot. I wonder if all the expanded military action (Afghanistan, too) justifies another Nobel Peace Prize?

I think it's good news for the president, but not sure it means much to us, other than potentially some bigger oil deals for our oil companies once/if the dust settles over there.

I would observe that with our help, the Northern Alliance overthrew the Talliban in a month in Afghanistan (October 7 to November 13). It took the Libyan rebels 6 months to overthrow the Libyan leader.

What's next for Libya? They don't exactly have the kinds of institutions that Iraq had all along (police, schools, universities, hospitals, etc.). Nation building is going to be "fun."

Before Bush chose military action against Saddam, the Neocons were pushing for action in Iraq and nation building exactly because creating a western style democratic nation in the mid-east would have a ripple effect throughout the region. Looks like it worked, to me, when I see long-term dictators in places like Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc., losing control of their countries to the people.

 

[huevonkiller]

I like how we used the indigenous population as our infantry. We saved US lives and they're more motivated anyway. Will everything work out now? Not sure to be honest.

IR is pretty complex. It is nice to see these dictators getting owned but we spend wayyy too much on the military still.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think Obama did a very good job as well. For better or worse, the middle east and Africa is reshaping.

 

[jlprk]

You Republicans are wrong. Your idol Obama sucks. Khadaffi was no dictator. He was just a guy who kept baiting colonial powers. Same for Saddam. Militarily powerless, no threat, just a talker.

Sarkozy entwined Obama in diplomatic obligations, which the U.S. follows to get them repaid when the U.S. wants a war. But when Reagan attacked Libya, American planes had to fly around France for lack of permission. It tripled the distance from Britain.

I think you Republicans are brown-nosing Obama to get promotions and contracts.

 

[maxiep]

That motherfucker killed a very good friend of mine. I can't wait until he's caught. Also, it's time to send that fake cancer victim back to the UK to finish his life in prison.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

No threads about this? A few observations of my own...

Obama got what he wanted, and certainly the world is better off without another despot. I wonder if all the expanded military action (Afghanistan, too) justifies another Nobel Peace Prize?

I think it's good news for the president, but not sure it means much to us, other than potentially some bigger oil deals for our oil companies once/if the dust settles over there.

I would observe that with our help, the Northern Alliance overthrew the Talliban in a month in Afghanistan (October 7 to November 13). It took the Libyan rebels 6 months to overthrow the Libyan leader.

I would observe that those two situations aren't really comparable.

What's next for Libya? They don't exactly have the kinds of institutions that Iraq had all along (police, schools, universities, hospitals, etc.). Nation building is going to be "fun."

Libya has police, schools, universities and hospitals. The nation doesn't need to be built, it needs to be rebuilt after it blew the fuck up. The infrastructure is in place, it's the political battles that will be the story for the next decade.

Before Bush chose military action against Saddam, the Neocons were pushing for action in Iraq and nation building exactly because creating a western style democratic nation in the mid-east would have a ripple effect throughout the region. Looks like it worked, to me, when I see long-term dictators in places like Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc., losing control of their countries to the people.

No, no, no.

In the eyes of most Arabs, the invasion of Iraq is a tragedy that made "democracy" into a bad word. The ripple effect we see now came from Bouazizi, not Bush.

 

[Denny Crane]

No matter how you spin it, the neocons did predict what we're seeing now.

 

[barfo]

No matter how you spin it, the neocons did predict what we're seeing now.

If I fart, the stock market will go up tomorrow. I farted.

Tomorrow, we'll find out if I caused the stock market to go up.

barfo

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

No matter how you spin it, the neocons did predict what we're seeing now.

It's not spin, it's educated analysis. Saying that the Neocon war on Iraq caused what we're seeing now is spin.

 

[jlprk]

We are Europe. We are better than the Arabs. We may have come from there tens of thousands of years ago, but Europe has older civilizations than Mesopotamia and Egypt. Just compare Stonehenge to the Great Pyramid. So it is right and just that we conquer their peaceful tribal systems and nation-build them in our image of war democracy.

As a small byproduct, we'll make money from their oil.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's not spin, it's educated analysis. Saying that the Neocon war on Iraq caused what we're seeing now is spin.

They predicted it, it happened.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

They predicted it, it happened.

Are you saying it's just an interesting coincidence, or are you saying what was in your first post, that their goal of creating a ripple effect "worked"?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

now we can let the vultures swoop in and steal all the oil, good job obama, hope gas drops below $3.00 soon

 

[Denny Crane]

We rock!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/libya-mass-killings_n_936995.html

Libya: Bodies Raise Specter Of Mass Killings In Tripoli

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — The bodies are scattered around a grassy square next to Moammar Gadhafi's compound of Bab al-Aziziya. Prone on grassy lots as if napping, sprawled in tents. Some have had their wrists bound by plastic ties.

The identities of the dead are unclear but they are in all likelihood activists that set up an impromptu tent city in solidarity with Gadhafi outside his compound in defiance of the NATO bombing campaign.

It is impossible to know who killed them, but the discoveries raise the disturbing specter of mass killings of noncombatants, detainees and the wounded.

Between Bab al-Aziziya, seized by rebels on Tuesday, and the Gadhafi stronghold neighborhood of Abu Salim, where fighting raged Thursday, AP reporters saw about two dozen bodies Thursday. Five or six were in a tents erected on a traffic circle that housed the activists and were decorated with the flags of many African nations.

One had an IV in his arm, and another body was completely charred, its legs missing.

At least a dozen other bodies were found in a grassy area and a canal nearby. Several of the dead had been shot in the head, with their hands tied behind their backs. A body in a doctor's green hospital gown was found in the canal. The bodies were bloated.

 

[Denny Crane]

Let's play a little anti-Bush math game. There are 1M bodies in Tripoli, all our responsibility.

 

[jlprk]

Surprise! European intelligence agencies instigated a fake civil war using pissed-off criminals, the government killed people in the war, now some bodies were found, so this proves that Europe is the good guy, Libya is the bad guy, and the fake civil war is justified! Shocking. First time in history.

The new "free" media is not reporting any killings from the winning side, just the losing side. The winners won without killing anyone. Blah blah. I've seen all this over and over.

 

[maxiep]

Never doubt the genius of CNN. http://twitpic.com/6aqxo8

 

[MARIS61]

No threads about this? A few observations of my own...

Obama got what he wanted, and certainly the world is better off without another despot. I wonder if all the expanded military action (Afghanistan, too) justifies another Nobel Peace Prize?

I think it's good news for the president, but not sure it means much to us, other than potentially some bigger oil deals for our oil companies once/if the dust settles over there.

I would observe that with our help, the Northern Alliance overthrew the Talliban in a month in Afghanistan (October 7 to November 13). It took the Libyan rebels 6 months to overthrow the Libyan leader.

What's next for Libya? They don't exactly have the kinds of institutions that Iraq had all along (police, schools, universities, hospitals, etc.). Nation building is going to be "fun."

Before Bush chose military action against Saddam, the Neocons were pushing for action in Iraq and nation building exactly because creating a western style democratic nation in the mid-east would have a ripple effect throughout the region. Looks like it worked, to me, when I see long-term dictators in places like Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc., losing control of their countries to the people.

You left out some other notable dictatorial governments currently on their way down the drain: Britain, US, Greece, Israel, Italy, Spain, Japan, Columbia, Mexico...

No empire lasts forever and very few last one hundred years.

The more a government "governs", the quicker it's populace will revolt.

 

[Denny Crane]

You left out some other notable dictatorial governments currently on their way down the drain: Britain, US, Greece, Israel, Italy, Spain, Japan, Columbia, Mexico...

No empire lasts forever and very few last one hundred years.

The more a government "governs", the quicker it's populace will revolt.

All those countries are social democracies. Why continue down that road to ruin?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Bump.

As of last Monday, NATO completed its mission in Libya. As such, US involvement in Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR is complete.

Good guys win.

 

[MARIS61]

Bump.

As of last Monday, NATO completed its mission in Libya. As such, US involvement in Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR is complete.

Good guys win.

I thought Al Qaeda were the bad guys?

You are aware you just gifted them Libya?

[video=youtube;zYIovCEuAeQ]

I guess the silver lining is now that we've forgiven them and we're best buds and all, we can GTFO of the middle east.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I didn't gift them Libya. My civilian masters (elected by you guys) did, after letting NATO decide what the mission was. That's one of the things that's great about our military.