Give your best answer... Did the universe have a beginning or not

[barfo]

If you use the scale that will show the differences in DNA between the races of people or even just primates, the salamander isn't even on the scale.

So you are saying we evolved from monkeys and not salamanders... don't know why those darn progressives won't admit that.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

So you are saying we evolved from monkeys and not salamanders... don't know why those darn progressives won't admit that.

barfo

No, I didn't say it, you did.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Ah! There it is, one of the very reasons many people don't want someone of this persuasion teaching their children they are about the same as microbes.

The microbe analogy was a metaphor. And what persuasion are you referring to?

I took my grandson on a field trip South Slough National Estuarine Reserve last year. The biologist conducting the tour did a credible job explaining all manner of things to the kids. Then he fucked it up by explaining that a local salamander was nearly the same as human beings with DNA about 98% the same. My grandson asked me about that on the way home, are we really the same as that salamander?
I told him no but that man used a trick to make it seem that way, He just used the gross scale to make you think 98% is close. Most biologist that work there are proud to proclaim their progressive values. They pretty much need to have them to get into the Marine Biology program run in Charelston by the U of O. If you use the scale that will show the differences in DNA between the races of people or even just primates, the salamander isn't even on the scale.

Okay. If stating reality is a progressive value, I guess call me progressive. It's just a fact that all living things share a significant amount of DNA. It's what you do with that fact that matters. Most likely your grandson didn't have the intellectual capacity yet to interpret the salamander thing. Of course the biologist wasn't saying that we are closely related. He was most likely trying to point out (perhaps poorly) that all life shares a large amount of DNA, indicating a common ancestor. How is that some sort of liberal conspiracy?

 

[jlprk]

I think that's what's really cool about this thread. It sucks people decided to make it a theist vs atheist debate.

This is an unknown topic and the only one that actually had a original thought regarding the matter was jlpk. Is he right? No! It just means he's not afraid to say what he believes to be true.

Someday I will explain my theory of higher dimensions to you and you will be BOWLED OVER by its truth!!! I will convert you instantly!!!

 

[MarAzul]

The microbe analogy was a metaphor. And what persuasion are you referring to?



Okay. If stating reality is a progressive value, I guess call me progressive. It's just a fact that all living things share a significant amount of DNA. It's what you do with that fact that matters. Most likely your grandson didn't have the intellectual capacity yet to interpret the salamander thing. Of course the biologist wasn't saying that we are closely related. He was most likely trying to point out (perhaps poorly) that all life shares a large amount of DNA, indicating a common ancestor. How is that some sort of liberal conspiracy?

Work on it hoo, report back when you come upon a clue.

 

[Eastoff]

Work on it hoo, report back when you come upon a clue.

Okay, if you have cancer, is that cancer part of you? If you take that cancer out, is it not part of you anymore? If you have a heart attack, and you get a heart transplant, are you still MarAzul? If you lose all of your cells from when you were born to when you are 50, are you the same MarAzul? Do those individual cells make you who you are? Those cells are kind of like all of us humans added up to make our planet.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Work on it hoo, report back when you come upon a clue.

Okay.

1. "this persuasion" = atheist

2. You do think telling the truth about life on earth is a liberal conspiracy because it points to a common ancestor of all living things, which offends your delicate Christian sensibilities. How on earth are you supposed to tell your grandson that we're related to monkeys? Heavens!

 

[MarAzul]

Okay.

1. "this persuasion" = atheist

2. You do think telling the truth about life on earth is a liberal conspiracy because it points to a common ancestor of all living things, which offends your delicate Christian sensibilities. How on earth are you supposed to tell your grandson that we're related to monkeys? Heavens!

Monkeys? Heck I am having trouble explain how some of you guys are considered human even though you shun human qualities.

 

[MarAzul]

Okay, if you have cancer, is that cancer part of you? If you take that cancer out, is it not part of you anymore? If you have a heart attack, and you get a heart transplant, are you still MarAzul? If you lose all of your cells from when you were born to when you are 50, are you the same MarAzul? Do those individual cells make you who you are? Those cells are kind of like all of us humans added up to make our planet.

No the cancer is not part of me, in or out.

I am MarAzul even when all cells have been replace 50 times.
The body you see is not MarAzul but it is what he is currently using. The body MarAzul uses today has no where near the capacity of the Body he used 50 years ago,
but he is still the same, the body is not. The body of now and fifty years ago, perhaps are near in DNA on the gross scale to the salamander, but MarAzul has almost nothing
in common with the same amphibian. The Biologist was way short in education to make a proper comparative association.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Humans are animals. There's no shame in it

 

[MarAzul]

Humans are animals. There's no shame in it

Perhaps you are. Do you expect that is your limit?

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I'm not speaking in metaphor or riddle. Biologically and scientifically we are animals. Just because the bible makes a distinction doesn't make it any less true

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

http://www.nature.com/news/simulations-back-up-theory-that-universe-is-a-hologram-1.14328

 

[MarAzul]

I'm not speaking in metaphor or riddle. Biologically and scientifically we are animals. Just because the bible makes a distinction doesn't make it any less true

I see hoo has seen his limit. We shall see if he will remain constrained.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I see hoo has seen his limit. We shall see if he will remain constrained.

What do you have against animals?

 

[tlongII]

Monkeys? Heck I am having trouble explain how some of you guys are considered human even though you shun human qualities.

I'm sorry if it offends you, but it's clear we evolved from monkeys. About 2 million years ago the earth started having grasslands. This caused monkeys to move to the earth surface from trees. This also encouraged the adaptaptation of walking upright so they could see predators.

 

[Further]

I don't think the two views can't mesh. I am animal, of animal and descended from the same animals that salamander is from. However, I have also evolved to have ego, complex thoughts, aspirations and longings. Some of those traits have evolved in other animals too, elephants morn for their lost and other primates and dolphins have complexity of thought. But all in all, it is our unique evolution that shows humans to be both animal and something unique. Now is that uniqueness better? It certainly has the capability to do more, now it's up to us to make those actions positive.

 

[riverman]

ok, my best guess is, no....it's always been around and needs no beginning. Our feeble microscopes and telescopes and eyeballs can't concieve of how vast and complex it truly is so we just see an eyelash of the real thing. The universe as we define it may just be a speck of dust on something much, much larger in scope. If Douglass Addams had not passed away I'd love to hear his answer to this question.

 

[jlprk]

13 billion years ago, time began, along with the physical universe. I sense that Something exists above time. There was no “before” time, so the question “Did Something exist before the universe?” cannot be asked. I sense that the Something speaks to me. It is the ultimate good. It is our guiding principle. It is…wait for it…It is the Liberal Conspiracy against Marazul. It maintains the peace we all enjoy.

 

[MarAzul]

I don't think the two views can't mesh. I am animal, of animal and descended from the same animals that salamander is from. However, I have also evolved to have ego, complex thoughts, aspirations and longings. Some of those traits have evolved in other animals too, elephants morn for their lost and other primates and dolphins have complexity of thought. But all in all, it is our unique evolution that shows humans to be both animal and something unique. Now is that uniqueness better? It certainly has the capability to do more, now it's up to us to make those actions positive.

This was a heck of a positive step. Perhaps the best in more than a thousand years, only one collection of DNA referred to as a species contributes on this level.

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

 

[jlprk]

How do we know whether animals live in a raw sense of religious awe, and reverence for nature? Why would a Cruel Creator create a beating heart full of wonder and fear, like say a frog, and then deny him eternal life?

It's more likely that a cruel predator species would invent an ideology, religion, giving itself permission to eat other animals.

 

[riverman]

The whole planet could be just a compost pile that's fermenting until some giant alien decides it's harvest time and eats it like an M&M, we are just the enzymes in the soup

 

[riverman]

How do we know whether animals live in a raw sense of religious awe, and reverence for nature? Why would a Cruel Creator create a beating heart full of wonder and fear, like say a frog, and then deny him eternal life?

It's more likely that a cruel predator species would invent an ideology, religion, giving itself permission to eat other animals.

Good one

 

[magnifier661]

13 billion years ago, time began, along with the physical universe. I sense that Something exists above time. There was no “before” time, so the question “Did Something exist before the universe?” cannot be asked. I sense that the Something speaks to me. It is the ultimate good. It is our guiding principle. It is…wait for it…It is the Liberal Conspiracy against Marazul. It maintains the peace we all enjoy.

So you believe this physical universe had a beginning? Yes?

 

[riverman]

So you believe this physical universe had a beginning? Yes?

What is your take Mags?

 

[magnifier661]

What is your take Mags?

I believe the universe had an absolute beginning

 

[jlprk]

Science says that this physical 3-dimensional universe had a beginning, along with its associated 4th dimension, so I'll believe it. But I suspect there are higher dimensions above our 4th dimension, which exist apart from time.

Now back to animals. How can Marzul kill these crows, who are smarter than your average Republican?

http://news.msn.com/science-technology/crows-solve-aesops-fable-puzzles-offer-clues-to-cognition

 

[Denny Crane]

I think Denny has a good theory on dark matter. He should answer this. I don't know about it that much

Dark matter seems to be a god of the gaps sort of theory. It is measurable, so it's not like ascribing something we don't understand to something else that can't be proven or demonstrated. It's a gaps sort of theory because we don't have something better to ascribe it to.

Basically we know there is "dark matter" but we can't see it directly. We can see its effects because of the way light bends and how orbits of stars in observable galaxies aren't what they should be. There's an enormous amount of it, too. 95% of the universe's mass, in fact.

It is a HYPOTHESIS, not a THEORY. In scientific terms. It's an attempt to explain a very odd observation.

 

[Cryptkeeper]

I think of Neil deGrasse Tyson's show whenever I look at this thread.

 

[blazerboy30]

Depends what you mean by "beginning"? I assume you mean in a chronological sense. But we created the construct of time, so of course there was a "beginning" because we defined time. The word "before" loses meaning when you account for the 4th dimension.