Gonna start it now: ALL HOMER MAN CRUSH on Johnny Flynn

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Ed O said:
I'm not a fan of Nolan Smith, either, of course, but just because Smith was a bad pick doesn't mean Flynn is suddenly going to be an NBA-level contributor.

Ed O.
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That's a pretty big leap between what Nate said and what essentially said his statement meant.
 
Ed O said:
I'm not a fan of Nolan Smith, either, of course, but just because Smith was a bad pick doesn't mean Flynn is suddenly going to be an NBA-level contributor.
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Surprisingly, Smith is actually older than Flynn. And, given that Flynn showed much more promise as a rookie than Smith is, and currently has a higher PER, I'd rather see Flynn getting minutes right now than Smith. Smith is tied to a cheap rookie contract for a couple more seasons. We'll have plenty of time to evaluate his performance. Give Flynn some meaningful minutes to see if he's worth keeping.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Surprisingly, Smith is actually older than Flynn. And, given that Flynn showed much more promise as a rookie than Smith is, and currently has a higher PER, I'd rather see Flynn getting minutes right now than Smith. Smith is tied to a cheap rookie contract for a couple more seasons. We'll have plenty of time to evaluate his performance. Give Flynn some meaningful minutes to see if he's worth keeping.

BNM
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BNM tearing it up with some good points recently, especially on this discussion. Nice work, man.

I really would like to see Flynn get a chance. I have yet to see, or think of, a valid reason why we wouldn't be giving Flynn a shot. We don't have any THAT good that should be keeping Flynn on the bench.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Surprisingly, Smith is actually older than Flynn. And, given that Flynn showed much more promise as a rookie than Smith is, and currently has a higher PER, I'd rather see Flynn getting minutes right now than Smith. Smith is tied to a cheap rookie contract for a couple more seasons. We'll have plenty of time to evaluate his performance. Give Flynn some meaningful minutes to see if he's worth keeping.
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Flynn has had three years in the NBA to show something... and Smith has had a few months. I'm a big fan of looking at a player's age, of course, but Flynn has barely showed a pulse in the NBA and I don't think that he's got any tools or attributes that indicate he's likely to bust out.

Billups (who is an exception, rather than the standard, for slow-starting NBA point guards) has very good size at the PG spot... that's something that he was going to have whether he had a great start to his career or not. Flynn, on the other hand, isn't big and isn't particularly fast. Isn't a very good shooter.

Etc., etc.

There's a chance that Flynn will stick in the NBA, but I don't see it as particularly likely.

Ed O.
 
Apparently Flynn looked good in his first 20 games (in the NBA):
[video=youtube;H-zbeWiirdU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-zbeWiirdU[/video]
 
Ed O said:
Flynn has had three years in the NBA to show something... and Smith has had a few months. I'm a big fan of looking at a player's age, of course, but Flynn has barely showed a pulse in the NBA and I don't think that he's got any tools or attributes that indicate he's likely to bust out.

Billups (who is an exception, rather than the standard, for slow-starting NBA point guards) has very good size at the PG spot... that's something that he was going to have whether he had a great start to his career or not. Flynn, on the other hand, isn't big and isn't particularly fast. Isn't a very good shooter.

Etc., etc.

There's a chance that Flynn will stick in the NBA, but I don't see it as particularly likely.

Ed O.
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How was he supposed to play in Houston? He was behind Lowry and Dragic. That would be like saying Sebastian Telfair was supposed to get minutes behind Damon Stoudamire and Nick Van Exel.
 
Flynn had has all-star talent, does he still have it? that question will be decided if he have the desire to work hard off the court on a small contract until he gets his shot again. No one is going to hand the reins over to him off the bat he is going to have to earn it on the practice court and in the weight room. I still believe he can come back and be an above average starter. He was playing fairly well in Minnesota his rookie year then when he started to hit the rookie wall and play badly the media ate him alive. All this stuff came out saying "we just have to wait tell Rubio comes over" ect throwing him under the bus. That came out even harsher when he was playing threw injuries then when he had to get side lined. Playing under a small city market that just rips into you everytime you touch the ball and can't wait for you to leave so they can see there "real" pg in Rubio had to be tough. Houston he was never going to get any playing time behind Dragic (Why the hell did the suns give him up for Brooks? The guy was always really good behind Nash) and of course Lowry.
I'v looked at Flynn as a potential starter (might as well aim high if you give him a chance) more then I do Smith. I'v always thought Smith was destined to be the next Steve Blake, an okay starter if in the right situation but should be a career backup. We have Flynn for only a few more weeks while we have Smith for 2 to 3 more years so I say we might as well give the Syracuse Guard a little run.
Can we also bench Felton because the way he is playing this management team might give him another contract if we wiff on all our PG this summer.
 
Ed O said:
Flynn has had three years in the NBA to show something... and Smith has had a few months. I'm a big fan of looking at a player's age, of course, but Flynn has barely showed a pulse in the NBA and I don't think that he's got any tools or attributes that indicate he's likely to bust out.
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He started 81 games as a 20 year old rookie and posted a PER of 13.0. Yeah, it's not great, but not bad considering his age and the situation he was in. He's hardly played since (injuries and bad situations). This year, he's only played about half as many minutes as Nolan Smith. But, he's younger than Smith has a higher (albeit still very low) PER, and a AST% twice as high. I'm not saying he's going to break out given a bigger role, but I do think he has the potential to be an average, to slightly above average starting NBA PG - which is something we've lacked since trading Andre Miller. He seems to have more "upside" than Smith.

The current situation is the perfect time to evaluate a guy like Flynn and see what he can do. If he sucks, well you just let him walk. If he looks decent, you can resign him if you can get him cheap enough. He seems to have more "upside" than Smith. I'd like to see if that upside is real, or just imagined.

BNM
 
In all likelihood he's probably gone. We don't have his bird rights and I suspect he'll want to play closer to home. I could see him signing with NY or NJ.
 
Natebishop3 said:
In all likelihood he's probably gone. We don't have his bird rights and I suspect he'll want to play closer to home. I could see him signing with NY or NJ.
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I do believe we have his bird rights, he was traded and never outright signed so we should still have them.
 
Rhal said:
I do believe we have his bird rights, he was traded and never outright signed so we should still have them.
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I could be mistaken but I thought I read that Houston renounced their qualifying offer, so they lost the bird rights.
 
It's even more critical to see what Flynn is really all about because this draft class is thin at PG. The highest projected PG to be drafted is Damian Lillard from Weber State and he's more of a combo guard. I don't think we'lll find our answer at PG through the draft this year. With the circumstances that Flynn has been through (i.e. injuries and wrong fit), Flynn could in essence be a 3rd pseudo-lottery pick this year.
 
Rhal said:
I do believe we have his bird rights, he was traded and never outright signed so we should still have them.
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Nope. Houston dropped the ball so he's not an RFA this summer. We don't have bird rights, early bird rights, or the right to match if someone offers him a deal. He's just a regular FA and I have a feeling he'll leave regardless.
 
Ed O said:
I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Ed O.
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For a guy I'd consider so smart (and who thinks he's so smart)..... I leave out one word (you), and you can't figure it out.

What I was saying is that for what NateBishop said, and the way you responded, you connected a whole lotta dots and made a whole lotta inference that I have no idea how you put the words in his mouth.

NB's quote:
"Chauncey Billups didn't come into his own until much later in his career. Flynn has only been in the league a few years and you're already saying he's a bad player? I don't think he's had a fair shot. His first year he was trying to figure out the triangle and then he went to Houston where he was buried behind Lowry and Dragic. Where was he supposed to find minutes? I think he's worth a shot and a much better prospect than Nolan fucking Smith."


Your quote in response to NB:
"I'm not a fan of Nolan Smith, either, of course, but just because Smith was a bad pick doesn't mean Flynn is suddenly going to be an NBA-level contributor."

How you made that inference based on what NB said is beyond me. Frankly, I was shocked because you're usually better than that (and more reasonable and logical). But your response made absolutely no sense. I wouldn't be surprised if you realized you made an incredible inference into NB's quote, and rather than respond to being called on putting words into NB's mouth, you just played it off like you couldn't understand what I tried to say.
 
Boob-No-More said:
He started 81 games as a 20 year old rookie and posted a PER of 13.0. Yeah, it's not great, but not bad considering his age and the situation he was in. He's hardly played since (injuries and bad situations). This year, he's only played about half as many minutes as Nolan Smith. But, he's younger than Smith has a higher (albeit still very low) PER, and a AST% twice as high. I'm not saying he's going to break out given a bigger role, but I do think he has the potential to be an average, to slightly above average starting NBA PG - which is something we've lacked since trading Andre Miller. He seems to have more "upside" than Smith.

The current situation is the perfect time to evaluate a guy like Flynn and see what he can do. If he sucks, well you just let him walk. If he looks decent, you can resign him if you can get him cheap enough. He seems to have more "upside" than Smith. I'd like to see if that upside is real, or just imagined.

BNM
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I would invite you to look at Flynn's usage that year, and its effect on his PER, but since it would blow up your latest rant, I won't bother.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
NB's quote:
"Chauncey Billups didn't come into his own until much later in his career. Flynn has only been in the league a few years and you're already saying he's a bad player? I don't think he's had a fair shot. His first year he was trying to figure out the triangle and then he went to Houston where he was buried behind Lowry and Dragic. Where was he supposed to find minutes? I think he's worth a shot and a much better prospect than Nolan fucking Smith."


Your quote in response to NB:
"I'm not a fan of Nolan Smith, either, of course, but just because Smith was a bad pick doesn't mean Flynn is suddenly going to be an NBA-level contributor."

How you made that inference based on what NB said is beyond me. Frankly, I was shocked because you're usually better than that (and more reasonable and logical). But your response made absolutely no sense. I wouldn't be surprised if you realized you made an incredible inference into NB's quote, and rather than respond to being called on putting words into NB's mouth, you just played it off like you couldn't understand what I tried to say.
Click to expand...

I would invite you to explore my response a bit more. It makes perfect sense to me.

As for not understanding what you posted: I'm sorry. Since my post makes sense, and since you left a word out, I really didn't know what you were talking about.

Ed O.
 
OneSport3 said:
It's even more critical to see what Flynn is really all about because this draft class is thin at PG. The highest projected PG to be drafted is Damian Lillard from Weber State and he's more of a combo guard. I don't think we'lll find our answer at PG through the draft this year. With the circumstances that Flynn has been through (i.e. injuries and wrong fit), Flynn could in essence be a 3rd pseudo-lottery pick this year.
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Great point! Repped.
 
Ed O said:
Flynn, on the other hand, isn't big and isn't particularly fast. Isn't a very good shooter.
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Not trying to pile on you here Ed, but Flynn's athleticism is actually one of his strengths.

From the combine (Smith in parenthesis)
3/4: 3.23 (3.17)
10.86 lane agility (11.05)
6' 1'' (6'4'') in shoes, 6' 4'' wingspan (6'6'')
33 (28.5) inch no step / 40 (34) inch vertical
Athletic strengths listed: Change of gears/hesitation moves, lateral quickness, conditioning, excellent first step, explosiveness
Athletic weaknesses listed: Average wingspan, undersized
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jonny-Flynn-1245/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nolan-Smith-1118/


Now granted, this is from prior to the draft, and especially after injuries he could be a step down in terms of athleticism, but his quickness is actually one of his strengths. He has physical abilities that Nolan doesn't. Nolan's got size on him for sure, but I think Flynn is a lot better in terms of actual potential as a starter at some point, and for me that's more than enough of a reason to give him more burn than Nolan. Again, I'm 100% willing to admit that I've liked Flynn since his 'cuse days, but I also have been pretty optimistic about Smith in the past as well-I just haven't seen attributes or abilities to convince me he could potentially be a PGotF.
 
jlprk said:
A lot of players who had quality careers, started with rookie years with an even higher usage rate than Flynn, yet got a lower PER. Note our own Cliff Robinson near the bottom of the list.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...at=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per
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Cliff Robinson was a 14 PER role player at the end of this 3rd season, and was a 2nd round draft pick. Flynn is a <9 PER PG that can't get minutes on a team that is trying to tank. His 3rd team in 3 years, and as a much higher draft pick than Cliff (Flynn was 6th overall), who was a solid, but not even very good, NBA player.

Dumb comparision. No surprise, though, considering who posted it.
 
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PapaG said:
Cliff Robinson was a 14 PER role player at the end of this 3rd season, and was a 2nd round draft pick. Flynn is a <9 PER PG that can't get minutes on a team that is trying to tank. His 3rd team in 3 years, and as a much higher draft pick than Cliff (Flynn was 6th overall), who was a solid, but not even very good, NBA player.
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A couple of things...

The reason he can't get minutes on "a team that's trying to tank" is because the coach isn't trying to tank. Check blazersedge for Caleb's comments on it.
blazersedge said:
"He brings speed at the point guard position," he said. "We want Jonny, Hasheem [Thabeet] and J.J. to keep going through the process on offense and defense. When they get their opportunity, which they will, we want them to be in a good position to succeed."
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In context of the full post (that I didn't post because I wanted you to actually read what I put down), it's pretty obvious he wants to get guys who have just become part of the team used to what they're actually supposed to be doing out there before throwing them in. With Hickson, it's a bit different because he's got more experience in the league, and not playing a position that dictates the flow of the offense (PG).
Dave also has some good input here:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2012/3/26/2905289/blazersedge-non-video-mailbag-march-27th-2012#storyjump

I want to quote lots of parts of it, but I'll just quote this:
dave said:
If you think Felton and Crawford would happily come in to fill 10 of those minutes in their new, end-of-bench roles, think again. They'd view the demotion as an insult and a direct blow to their future chances of a contract. They'd fume and fester, destroying the locker room even further.
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It's not really a surprise that Flynn got traded and barely played. With Rubio coming over, Flynn coming off of an injury, it made sense for them to ship him off. On the Rockets, he was playing behind Lowry, who for a good chunk of the season people were saying was a potential all-star, and Dragic who is obviously a hot commodity because he's been averaging great numbers. So it's not really a surprise that he was traded twice given the circumstances, and I'm not sure why you'd be surprised his PER is so low when he's barely playing. Someone mentioned in another thread the fact that one good game from him could knock him solidly into double digits.

It's easy to jump to conclusions without taking the circumstances into account. This isn't to say Flynn is going to come in and put up Steve Nash numbers, or even Jose Calderon, but I think you're making observations without putting them into their proper context.
 
Of course Crawford and Felton would fume. Fuck them. Should have cut Felton and told Jamal not to come around the team any longer.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Of course Crawford and Felton would fume. Fuck them. Should have cut Felton and told Jamal not to come around the team any longer.
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Should have, but didn't unfortunately, and if we did now it'd look pretty unprofessional (heck, it would've then too). That's really gonna make the other players on the team want to work hard, or even "recruit" free agents. It's about saving face at this point. A team that makes the playoffs after a strong finish (and after changing coaches) is going to be a lot more attractive in getting free agents to sign here than a team that traded away two starters, cut another and the sixth man, and is going into full-blown rebuild mode. Ultimately though, I think it's gonna be more on LMA and others to get free agents to come here. It's going to have to come from their mouths, not our management, but it's a lot easier sell if the team makes the playoffs.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Of course Crawford and Felton would fume. Fuck them. Should have cut Felton and told Jamal not to come around the team any longer.
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There's still time. Why don't you go tell him?
 
LameR said:
Should have, but didn't unfortunately, and if we did now it'd look pretty unprofessional (heck, it would've then too). That's really gonna make the other players on the team want to work hard, or even "recruit" free agents. It's about saving face at this point. A team that makes the playoffs after a strong finish (and after changing coaches) is going to be a lot more attractive in getting free agents to sign here than a team that traded away two starters, cut another and the sixth man, and is going into full-blown rebuild mode. Ultimately though, I think it's gonna be more on LMA and others to get free agents to come here. It's going to have to come from their mouths, not our management, but it's a lot easier sell if the team makes the playoffs.
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As long as LMA is in Portland, that's more important to 'recruiting' a star player than squeaking into the playoffs, or ending up at the tail end of the lottery. Had LMA been traded for draft picks, it wouldn't matter if the team won every game the rest of the year to make the playoffs. Star players want to play with other star players, and fortunately, Portland at least managed to hold onto the biggest asset they have to expedite a rebuilding process.

Playing Felton 34 minutes/game to beat a terrible GSW at home by 3 points is just dumb, though.
 
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