Gortat

[e_blazer]

So, Dave on BE has posted his thoughts on all of the centers in the known universe and has concluded that, "Brace yourselves, Blazer fans, a mild, slightly warm zephyr might be blowing through town. That zephyr's name is Gortat."

http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/6/4/4395710/all-the-centers-in-the-universe-part-2

Yeah, he's a bit "meh", but he's probably obtainable given that the Suns look to be in a rebuilding mode. So, what would it take to get Gortat? He's making $7.7M in the last year of his contract next season, which is certainly reasonable. Freeland and #10 should be more than enough enticement, IMHO, and would leave the Blazers with some nice change to spend on other FAs.

 

[blue9]

Only way I'd obtain Gortat is by trading nothing more and nothing less than Freeland, Pavlovic and Jeffries:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n5tzg5w
That's the deal - they have to take all three of these guys in order for me to take Gortat.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Gortat is an expiring contract.

Only way I'd obtain Gortat is by trading nothing more and nothing less than Freeland, Pavlovic and Jeffries:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n5tzg5w
That's the deal - they have to take all three of these guys in order for me to take Gortat.

 

[Rhal]

I'v been a fan of trading out lottery pick for Gortat for awhile now. Gortat is a good center, not amazing but top 10, can both defend and score well off the PnR and sets good screens. He isn't a sexy pickup but he would give us the player LA wants to play next and makes us better for the next year at least then our lottery pick would, and if we sign him after his contract is up he is a center who could be moved at anytime when it feels like Leonard can take over.
No player at 10 am I enamored with so I have no problem with trading the pick, I just don't want to see McGee/Jordan on this team.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Gortat is an expiring contract.

...and is a decent center, which suggests that they should be able to get more for him than a disappointing rookie and two journeymen.

 

[magnifier661]

I Would give up the #10, Freeland and cap space for Gortat any day and twice on Sundays.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

BTW, IF that deal were made, that would leave us with 8 players with a total salary of $48.07M. Assuming 5 roster-spot holds of about $500K, we would have about $8M remaining cap space if all holds are renounced.

Would that be worth it, or would we be better off just keeping Hickson and Maynor, and then trying to use the MLE to fill in the bench? To me, this seems like the exact recipe for what MM calls "NBA purgatory".

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

BTW, IF that deal were made, that would leave us with 8 players with a total salary of $48.07M. Assuming 5 roster-spot holds of about $500K, we would have about $8M remaining cap space if all holds are renounced.

Would that be worth it, or would we be better off just keeping Hickson and Maynor, and then trying to use the MLE to fill in the bench? To me, this seems like the exact recipe for what MM calls "NBA purgatory".

Worth it. Use the 8 million to try and grab Evans. Use room exception on maynor. Offer jermaine oneal the vet minimum.

Lillard, maynor
Evans, Matthews, Barton
Batum, claver
Aldridge, oneal
Gortat, leonard

 

[Rhal]

BTW, IF that deal were made, that would leave us with 8 players with a total salary of $48.07M. Assuming 5 roster-spot holds of about $500K, we would have about $8M remaining cap space if all holds are renounced.

Would that be worth it, or would we be better off just keeping Hickson and Maynor, and then trying to use the MLE to fill in the bench?

Gortat fills a position of need and makes us better then either hickson or Maynor does. We could still keep one of the two(maybe both) while adding a shooter to the bench.
I doubt we renounce all cap holds though so that would leave us with around 4m? in capspace instead

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mook]

A year ago he had a 15/10 season (21 PER). Then Steve Nash went away.

I'd be pretty happy to add him. There's a combination of size, competence and health that we just haven't had at the Center position since....jesus, I guess Camby and Ratliff were both of that caliber when they first came on board. A guy like that does the lunch pail work so that Aldridge can do his thing (score, be the focus of the offense).

I'd do the deal for the #10 pick. It's not a great draft from what everyone says, and it could mean us avoiding the next Luke Babbitt or failed eurostash instead.

The window for Aldridge, Batum, Matthews and Lillard is right now. (Sure, Lillard will get better, but he's already a prime-level NBA pg.) Get some bench pieces and let's roll. We're not a contender with Gortat, but we're also no longer in shitty lotto pick territory either.

 

[Boise Blazer]

2 Questions: If we traded for Gortat and he is a free agent after next and we let him go does that 1) still give us money to play with next year in free agency and 2) is there a center that is worth going after?

In other words in a worst case scenario is there any value using him as a one year stop gap that is better than what we have now? Obviously some of these arent realistic or are team/player options but this is what we would have to work with

2014 Center Free Agents

Fab Melo Boston Celtics
Bismack Biyombo Charlotte Bobcats
Anderson Varejao Cleveland Cavaliers
Tyler Zeller Cleveland Cavaliers
Kosta Koufos Denver Nuggets
Chris Bosh Miami Heat
Joel Anthony Miami Heat
Andre Drummond Detroit Pistons
Vyacheslav Kravtsov Detroit Pistons
Andrew Bogut Golden State Warriors
Festus Ezeli Golden State Warriors
Donatas Motiejunas Houston Rockets
Jordan Hill Los Angeles Lakers
Ekpe Udoh Milwaukee Bucks
Marcus Camby New York Knicks
Nikola Vucevic Orlando Magic
Jonas Valanciunas Toronto Raptors
DeMarcus Cousins Sacramento Kings
Marcin Gortat Phoenix Suns
Enes Kanter Utah Jazz
Meyers Leonard Portland Trail Blazers
Spencer Hawes Philadelphia 76ers

 

[magnifier661]

Gortat fills a position of need and makes us better then either hickson or Maynor does. We could still keep one of the two(maybe both) while adding a shooter to the bench.
I doubt we renounce all cap holds though so that would leave us with around 4m? in capspace instead

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

That's very interesting because the cap holds for both Maynor and Hickson would free up around the 4 mil you suggested. The offer of #10 pick, Freeland and 4 mil space fits perfectly. Then offering Hickson around 5-6 mil, Maynor 2.5 mil; and we get another 2-3 mil to offer another player.

The question is, how much better does this make us? I think significantly better, since we finally have a center that plays at the position and Hickson able to free up more time for Aldridge (cutting him down to 35 per game).

I still think we need a wing, but maybe we can trade Matthews for more of a slashing guard. That's a huge gamble though.

 

[magnifier661]

2 Questions: If we traded for Gortat and he is a free agent after next and we let him go does that 1) still give us money to play with next year in free agency and 2) is there a center that is worth going after?

In other words in a worst case scenario is there any value using him as a one year stop gap that is better than what we have now? Obviously some of these arent realistic or are team/player options but this is what we would have to work with

2014 Center Free Agents

Fab Melo Boston Celtics
Bismack Biyombo Charlotte Bobcats
Anderson Varejao Cleveland Cavaliers
Tyler Zeller Cleveland Cavaliers
Kosta Koufos Denver Nuggets
Chris Bosh Miami Heat
Joel Anthony Miami Heat
Andre Drummond Detroit Pistons
Vyacheslav Kravtsov Detroit Pistons
Andrew Bogut Golden State Warriors
Festus Ezeli Golden State Warriors
Donatas Motiejunas Houston Rockets
Jordan Hill Los Angeles Lakers
Ekpe Udoh Milwaukee Bucks
Marcus Camby New York Knicks
Nikola Vucevic Orlando Magic
Jonas Valanciunas Toronto Raptors
DeMarcus Cousins Sacramento Kings
Marcin Gortat Phoenix Suns
Enes Kanter Utah Jazz
Meyers Leonard Portland Trail Blazers
Spencer Hawes Philadelphia 76ers

Yes we could still be under cap significantly.

 

[blue9]

We're not a contender with Gortat, but we're also no longer in shitty lotto pick territory either.

Right, instead we're in shittier draft pick territory. I think there's a good chance (of course that's all it is - a chance) that whoever we pick at #10 will be worth more and have a better impact on the team in 2-3 years than Gortat would. So we're selling our future in order to not be a contender?
If our "window" is now we may as well blow the whole thing up and start over.

 

[magnifier661]

Right, instead we're in shittier draft pick territory. I think there's a good chance (of course that's all it is - a chance) that whoever we pick at #10 will be worth more and have a better impact on the team in 2-3 years than Gortat would. So we're selling our future in order to not be a contender?
If our "window" is now we may as well blow the whole thing up and start over.

I don't know man. I actually think we have "contender" possibility with a player like Gortat, because he is savvy and knows how to protect the rim. I think Lillard is really going to surprise peeps next season (in a good way). And remember, we had absolutely the worst bench in the NBA and almost made the playoffs. Without Batum's injury nag and Matthews ankle, we could have gotten in a few more wins. Add Hickson coming off the bench and we become immediately better.

 

[Reep]

Everything is a risk, right? If Gortat is solid, Lillard advances incrementally, Aldridge wants to stay and plays well, Batum becomes more consistent, then there is a chance this could be a very solid team.

But, if it doesn't gel, and LMA goes to TX, then we'll be hating the fact that we gave up on whoever went at 10. However, if it all goes south then we will be in lottery city for a couple years anyway.

I do like the idea of retaining Hickson off the bench if that would be possible. That would really thicken us up down low. Retaining Maynor and developing Barton and Claver could give a nice rotation.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Call me cynical, but I don't think Hickson stays if he's going to be a backup. I'm sure he fancies himself a starter, and expects to land in a spot where he can be.

That said, if he'd be willing to stay and be LA's backup at a decent (read: below MLE) salary, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[magnifier661]

Call me cynical, but I don't think Hickson stays if he's going to be a backup. I'm sure he fancies himself a starter, and expects to land in a spot where he can be.

That said, if he'd be willing to stay and be LA's backup at a decent (read: below MLE) salary, I'd be ecstatic.

I think minutes is more of an issue, IMO. I think he could still get the 25-30 minutes per as a back-up to both Aldridge and Gortat; still leaving 10 minutes for Leonard to develop

 

[mook]

Right, instead we're in shittier draft pick territory. I think there's a good chance (of course that's all it is - a chance) that whoever we pick at #10 will be worth more and have a better impact on the team in 2-3 years than Gortat would. So we're selling our future in order to not be a contender?
If our "window" is now we may as well blow the whole thing up and start over.

A #10 pick isn't really a "future." It's a hope.

I have more hope that Lillard blows up in the coming year or two into an elite PG. If that happens, I want competent starting-caliber guys playing with him. Gortat is that.

 

[RR7]

I've been all over the map on Gortat. Just looking through his numbers again, he really excells in the PnR, which is why he was so much better with Nash. He still ran it about 20% of the time last season, and was 27th in the league, at 1.16 PPP. Other than being better in the post, his numbers on offense were comparable to Hickson's, in the breakdown of which plays he ran, and his effectiveness in them. Hickson did well in the PnR for us, primarily with Batum on the side, and Gortat could run that more effectively.
This biggest difference was on the defensive side of the ball. Gortat was 20th in the league against post ups. Hickson was 220th.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

This biggest difference was on the defensive side of the ball. Gortat was 20th in the league against post ups. Hickson was 220th.

Swayed. (and repped)

 

[magnifier661]

I've been all over the map on Gortat. Just looking through his numbers again, he really excells in the PnR, which is why he was so much better with Nash. He still ran it about 20% of the time last season, and was 27th in the league, at 1.16 PPP. Other than being better in the post, his numbers on offense were comparable to Hickson's, in the breakdown of which plays he ran, and his effectiveness in them. Hickson did well in the PnR for us, primarily with Batum on the side, and Gortat could run that more effectively.
This biggest difference was on the defensive side of the ball. Gortat was 20th in the league against post ups. Hickson was 220th.

You sooooo sexy with your insight! Repp'd

 

[blue9]

Adding Gortat tops us out at "Denver Nuggets" - pretender, not contender.

 

[RR7]

Adding Gortat tops us out at "Denver Nuggets" - pretender, not contender.

I think Lillard's better than anyone they have, going forward, and I'd argue Aldridge is as well.
I think two big aspects of being able to compete overall are having top players at each position, like top 5 PF, etc., as well as being able to "win" matchups against other teams.
It could be my faith in Lillard, but I can see him as a top 5 PG as early as next season. There are so many good PGs, it's tough to pick apart, but he's up there, right behind Rose, Paul, Westbrook. Aldridge is a top 5 PF pretty easily. Where he is in that top 5 we can debate. At SF, you have Lebron, Durant, Carmelo, probably throw Paul George in there, and then Batum is in that next argument to round out the top 5 to 7 players. I think having 3 top 5-8ish players at their positions is a big step in the right direction. If we were a winning team, Wes would get mentioned more alongside guys like Sefelosha, but because we aren't, he isn't. But he's every bit as good, and a very good 3 point shooter, which is big out of a role player. Gortat would give us a very good post defender. Obviously, you need a bench.
Bench being the key, that's a better 5 than Denver, IMO. I think Batum and Gallinari can be debated, but they're close. I'd personally take Lillard over Lawson going forward, but we can call that one close. Gortat's a little better than Koufos, Aldridge is better than Faried. Iguodola is better than Wes. If they keep him. And they were what, 3rd in the west?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I've been all over the map on Gortat. Just looking through his numbers again, he really excells in the PnR, which is why he was so much better with Nash. He still ran it about 20% of the time last season, and was 27th in the league, at 1.16 PPP. Other than being better in the post, his numbers on offense were comparable to Hickson's, in the breakdown of which plays he ran, and his effectiveness in them. Hickson did well in the PnR for us, primarily with Batum on the side, and Gortat could run that more effectively.
This biggest difference was on the defensive side of the ball. Gortat was 20th in the league against post ups. Hickson was 220th.

very nice post

factor that no matter how much we all like Lillard, he is no Nash. Was not long ago that LMA wasone ofthe best in the league on the Pand R, dunk. Almost all of that had to do with Miller. Mind you, I think that Lillard can pass into the rim..he just needs to do it more..

Great comparison on JJ. Some team is going to pay him on last seasons numbers an be very unhappy with what they end up with, hope it is not the Blazers. Pfffttt 220...lol

 

[Reep]

no matter how much we all like Lillard, he is no Nash.

Agreed that Lillard isn't Nash, but he sure made Hickson look good on dives to the rim. I would list passing to the roller as one of Lillard's strengths.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Agreed that Lillard isn't Nash, but he sure made Hickson look good on dives to the rim. I would list passing to the roller as one of Lillard's strengths.

I believe he was one of if not the top rated PnR PG coming out of the draft last year according to Tom Penn

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8111210/welcome-draft-diary-xvi

8:09 — Tom Penn just threw a slew of advanced points-per-possession stats at us, trying to make the case that it wasn't completely ludicrous for a two-time Big Sky MVP to go sixth in the entire NBA draft. It's almost like the ESPN producers said, "What segment could we create that appeals to 125 hard-core basketball bloggers and goes over the heads of literally everyone else watching this telecast?" Here were the points-per-possession stats (I made two of them up) …

Own Pick-and-Roll Offense 1.14 (91st percentile in Division I)
Passes Out of Pick-and-Roll: 1.04 (72nd percentile in Division I)
Against White Dudes Who Walked Onto Their Teams: 4.32 (100th percentile in Division I)
Spot-up Shooting: 1.39 (96th percentile in Division I)
Against Guys Who Walk With a Slight Limp: 3.23 (100th percentile in Division I)

 

[magnifier661]

Agreed that Lillard isn't Nash, but he sure made Hickson look good on dives to the rim. I would list passing to the roller as one of Lillard's strengths.

Yeah he will be better

 

[Reep]

I didn't realize how big Gortat is. He is pretty quick down the court, so I was kind of thinking 6"10 and 240 or so. They guy is 6'11" barefoot, 7+ in shoes, with a 7'3.5" wing span and 255 lbs. That's a pretty solid build. His rebounding was down last year, but he had been trending up and Phoenix was a mess last year.

 

[magnifier661]

I didn't realize how big Gortat is. He is pretty quick down the court, so I was kind of thinking 6"10 and 240 or so. They guy is 6'11" barefoot, 7+ in shoes, with a 7'3.5" wing span and 255 lbs. That's a pretty solid build. His rebounding was down last year, but he had been trending up and Phoenix was a mess last year.

And imagine if he played alongside Aldridge?! I think a lot of hicksons stats were a benefit from the attention on Aldridge.

I suspect if hickson does leave for greener pastures; he won't be nearly as effective being a starter on a team without a legit low/high post scorer like Aldridge.