Grade Olshey's deadline trades

[Rastapopoulos]

Olshey sure does love to make trades at the deadline. Some of them are good, some of them are bad. Name and grade in this thread.

I'll start:
On February 19, 2015, we traded Will Barton, Víctor Claver, Thomas Robinson, and a lottery-protected 2016 first-round pick for Aaron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee.

If I'm correct, that pick became #19 in 2016 which was Malik Beasley. Pascal Siakam was taken at #27.

I give that one a D-, and that's being generous.

 

[Natebishop3]

Olshey sure does love to make trades at the deadline. Some of them are good, some of them are bad. Name and grade in this thread.

I'll start:
On February 19, 2015, we traded Will Barton, Víctor Claver, Thomas Robinson, and a lottery-protected 2016 first-round pick for Aaron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee.

If I'm correct, that pick became #19 in 2016 which was Malik Beasley. Pascal Siakam was taken at #27.

I give that one a D-, and that's being generous.

The trade failed for two reasons.

1. Afflalo was meant to be a backup. Wes went down and that changed the plan.

2. Afflalo got hurt and wasn't as effective.

It's amazing to me that people look back at that trade through 20/20 hindsight vision

 

[blazerkor]

The trade failed for two reasons.

1. Afflalo was meant to be a backup. Wes went down and that changed the plan.

2. Afflalo got hurt and wasn't as effective.

It's amazing to me that people look back at that trade through 20/20 hindsight vision

I was pretty pissed about it at the time but I was a big fan of the Thrill, so I was admittedly biased.

 

[B-Roy]

The trade failed for two reasons.

1. Afflalo was meant to be a backup. Wes went down and that changed the plan.

2. Afflalo got hurt and wasn't as effective.

It's amazing to me that people look back at that trade through 20/20 hindsight vision

Afflalo sucked even as a backup. That was one of the more shortsighted deals Neil has ever made. You don't even need to look at hindsight to know that it sucked.

Not to mention we had CJ on the bench at the time. If Neil believed in CJ half as much as he did now he would have never pulled the trigger.

 

[Natebishop3]

Afflalo sucked even as a backup. That was one of the more shortsighted deals Neil has ever made. You don't even need to look at hindsight to know that it sucked.

Not to mention we had CJ on the bench at the time. If Neil believed in CJ half as much as he did now he would have never pulled the trigger.

It was a "win now" move that many of us are calling for right now.

You don't think a trade that sends out any of Simons/Trent/Collins/Little couldn't bight us in the ass?

 

[Minstrel]

It was a "win now" move that many of us are calling for right now.

You don't think a trade that sends out any of Simons/Trent/Collins/Little couldn't bight us in the ass?

Sure, it could. And has a high chance of biting Portland in the ass if he traded them all for a mediocre backup. I didn't like the trade at the time, though I didn't expect it to turn into as terrible a deal as it did.

 

[Tince]

Sure, it could. And has a high chance of biting Portland in the ass if he traded them all for a mediocre backup. I didn't like the trade at the time, though I didn't expect it to turn into as terrible a deal as it did.

It does seem like the majority call for win-now trades and yet the most highly critized trades were the win-now moves. Never put the two together before.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sure, it could. And has a high chance of biting Portland in the ass if he traded them all for a mediocre backup. I didn't like the trade at the time, though I didn't expect it to turn into as terrible a deal as it did.

Neil was desperate to keep LMA.

 

[Chris Craig]

2013

Blazers trade the rights to Georgios Prentezis and a TPE to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Eric Maynor.

2014

No Moves at the deadline

2015

The Blazers trade Will Barton, Victor Claver, Thomas, a 2016 1st rnd pick (Malik Beasely), and TPEs for Aaron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee.

2016

The Blazers trade cash and a TPE to the Miami Heat for Brian Roberts and a 2021 2nd rnd pick (traded to Memphis as part of Kanter trade?)

The Blazers trade a 2020 2nd rnd pick (Vernon Carey Jr) and TPE to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao and a 2018 1st rnd pick (Moritz Wagner).

2017

The Blazers made their move early before the deadline trading Mason Plumlee and 2018 2nd rnd pick(Shake Milton) for Jusuf Nurkic and a 2017 1st rnd pick (Harry Giles)(Traded with 2017 1st rnd pick #15 Justin Jackson to the Kibgs for #10 Zach Collins.)


2018

The Blazers trade Noah Vonleh and cash to the Chicago Bulls for the rights to Milovan Rakovic and a TPE.

2019

The Blazers traded Caleb Swanigan to the Sacramento Kings for Skal Labissiere and a TPE.

The Blazers trade Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin, and 2 future 2nd picks (2021,2023) for Rodney Hood.

2020

The Blazers trade Skal Labissiere and cash to the Atlanta Hawks for a 2024 2nd rnd pick and a TPE.

The Blazers trade Kent Bazemore, Anthony Tolliver, and 2 future 2nd rnd picks to the Sacramento Kings for Trevor Ariza, Caleb Swanigan, and Wenyen Gabriel.



The 2017 trade netting Nurkic and eventually Collins is the only deadline deal that Neil did while GM that has paid off any. Well, and maybe Hood.

 

[Cugel]

not that impressive, but I guess that's how it goes.

 

[Minstrel]

It does seem like the majority call for win-now trades and yet the most highly critized trades were the win-now moves. Never put the two together before.

I'm fine with win-now moves if the value is there. That has to be true for any trade. I'm not in favor of win-now moves just to "go for it" if you have to pay well more than the value of what you're getting.

And, in general, across sports, the worst moves historically are contenders who are so desperate for a player, they give away vital pieces of their future.

 

[B-Roy]

It does seem like the majority call for win-now trades and yet the most highly critized trades were the win-now moves. Never put the two together before.

Context is pretty important. The "win now" trade landed a mediocre backup on an expiring deal. Afflalo sucked that season in Denver. The win-now guys that people are talking about don't fit that criteria, although you could always argue their level of mediocrity.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Context is pretty important. The "win now" trade landed a mediocre backup on an expiring deal. Afflalo sucked that season in Denver. The win-now guys that people are talking about don't fit that criteria, although you could always argue their level of mediocrity.

but thats what was needed. At the time we were set in all five starting positions, unlike now.
Apples to oranges. That move was to put veteran leadership on the bench.
Todays win now call is for a starting caliber player.

Edit: ill add that at the time The thrill had shown zero consistency and that is what the bench needed. A consistent veteran off the bench.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The trade failed for two reasons.

1. Afflalo was meant to be a backup. Wes went down and that changed the plan.

2. Afflalo got hurt and wasn't as effective.

It's amazing to me that people look back at that trade through 20/20 hindsight vision

But also, Stotts refused to play or use Barton. Same with McCollum. It wasn't until Afflalo got injured that Stotts gave in and gave CJ minutes. It didn't turn out good but I don't see it much of Olshey's fault. More so Stotts for not allowing Barton to show them what they had.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Afflalo sucked even as a backup. That was one of the more shortsighted deals Neil has ever made. You don't even need to look at hindsight to know that it sucked.

Not to mention we had CJ on the bench at the time. If Neil believed in CJ half as much as he did now he would have never pulled the trigger.

I don't think it was about belief in CJ, but rather the understanding that Stotts wasn't going to play him or Barton.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't think it was about belief in CJ, but rather the understanding that Stotts wasn't going to play him or Barton.

Right, the GM believed he had excellent young players but didn't think the coach would play them...and was fine with that and kept that coach on the payroll for the next 7 years. Sounds realistic.

Bear in mind, you seem to feel anyone who thinks there's any redeeming quality to Stotts as a coach is an idiot--yet you lionize the GM who thinks he's a good coach. Cognitive dissonance.

 

[Tince]

Context is pretty important. The "win now" trade landed a mediocre backup on an expiring deal. Afflalo sucked that season in Denver. The win-now guys that people are talking about don't fit that criteria, although you could always argue their level of mediocrity.

I take minor exception to Afflalo being labeled mediocre at the time. The season prior he average 18-4-3 while shooting 43% from 3 in what appeared to be the prime of his career. I think there were many people thinking his 50 game dip in Denver to 14-3-2 on 33% from three was not on Afflalo, but the Nuggets.

https://www.si.com/nba/2015/02/19/arron-afflalo-trade-blazers-nuggets-grades

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Afflalo sucked even as a backup. That was one of the more shortsighted deals Neil has ever made. You don't even need to look at hindsight to know that it sucked.

Not to mention we had CJ on the bench at the time. If Neil believed in CJ half as much as he did now he would have never pulled the trigger.

But everybody here was begging for that trade. Afflalo or Wilson Chandler.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's amazing to me that people look back at that trade through 20/20 hindsight vision

how else are you supposed to judge any roster move than by how it works out? Hindsight is the only way to gauge decisions. There are always variables that enter the equation

I might have great reasoning for buying a stock when it's selling at $50. But if I need to dump the stock at $20 my reasoning wasn't worth shit and I was a fool for buying at $50. The Portland GM, was it Nash? thought he had great reasons for drafting Martell Webster instead of Chris Paul. I mean, the Blazers already had Telfaire at PG and they needed a SF. But it was a fucking stupid choice. Hindsight made that apparent

Will Barton has been better the last 3-4 seasons than Afflalo was at the time and when the 1st round pick Portland gave up was on the clock, Caris Levert, Pascal Siakam, Dejonte Murray and Malcolm Brogdon were available. That's some significant opportunity cost

all that given up for 25 games of Afflalo. Bad trade

 

[KSF-ERIC]

2013

Blazers trade the rights to Georgios Prentezis and a TPE to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Eric Maynor.

2014

No Moves at the deadline

2015

The Blazers trade Will Barton, Victor Claver, Thomas, a 2016 1st rnd pick (Malik Beasely), and TPEs for Aaron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee.

2016

The Blazers trade cash and a TPE to the Miami Heat for Brian Roberts and a 2021 2nd rnd pick (traded to Memphis as part of Kanter trade?)

The Blazers trade a 2020 2nd rnd pick (Vernon Carey Jr) and TPE to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao and a 2018 1st rnd pick (Moritz Wagner).

2017

The Blazers made their move early before the deadline trading Mason Plumlee and 2018 2nd rnd pick(Shake Milton) for Jusuf Nurkic and a 2017 1st rnd pick (Harry Giles)(Traded with 2017 1st rnd pick #15 Justin Jackson to the Kibgs for #10 Zach Collins.)


2018

The Blazers trade Noah Vonleh and cash to the Chicago Bulls for the rights to Milovan Rakovic and a TPE.

2019

The Blazers traded Caleb Swanigan to the Sacramento Kings for Skal Labissiere and a TPE.

2020

The Blazers trade Skal Labissiere and cash to the Atlanta Hawks for a 2024 2nd rnd pick and a TPE.




The 2017 trade netting Nurkic and eventually Collins is the only deadline deal that Neil did while GM that has paid off any.

What about the Hood trade in 2019? Got him for Sauce and WB4. Gosh remember them?

 

[wizenheimer]

2013

Blazers trade the rights to Georgios Prentezis and a TPE to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Eric Maynor.

2014

No Moves at the deadline

2015

The Blazers trade Will Barton, Victor Claver, Thomas, a 2016 1st rnd pick (Malik Beasely), and TPEs for Aaron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee.

2016

The Blazers trade cash and a TPE to the Miami Heat for Brian Roberts and a 2021 2nd rnd pick (traded to Memphis as part of Kanter trade?)

The Blazers trade a 2020 2nd rnd pick (Vernon Carey Jr) and TPE to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao and a 2018 1st rnd pick (Moritz Wagner).

2017

The Blazers made their move early before the deadline trading Mason Plumlee and 2018 2nd rnd pick(Shake Milton) for Jusuf Nurkic and a 2017 1st rnd pick (Harry Giles)(Traded with 2017 1st rnd pick #15 Justin Jackson to the Kibgs for #10 Zach Collins.)


2018

The Blazers trade Noah Vonleh and cash to the Chicago Bulls for the rights to Milovan Rakovic and a TPE.

2019

The Blazers traded Caleb Swanigan to the Sacramento Kings for Skal Labissiere and a TPE.

2020

The Blazers trade Skal Labissiere and cash to the Atlanta Hawks for a 2024 2nd rnd pick and a TPE.




The 2017 trade netting Nurkic and eventually Collins is the only deadline deal that Neil did while GM that has paid off any.

you forgot Bazemore and Tolliver, and two 2nd's for Ariza, Gabriel, and Swanigam. Considering the Blazers only got 21 games out of Ariza, I'd say that was probably slightly negative because of the 2nd's

 

[Chris Craig]

What about the Hood trade in 2019? Got him for Sauce and WB4. Gosh remember them?

Fixed

 

[wizenheimer]

But everybody here was begging for that trade. Afflalo or Wilson Chandler.

how many people here make 7 million a year and have fully manned scouting departments for developing player evaluations?

 

[Chris Craig]

you forgot Bazemore and Tolliver, and two 2nd's for Ariza, Gabriel, and Swanigam. Considering the Blazers only got 21 games out of Ariza, I'd say that was probably slightly negative because of the 2nd's

Fixed

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Right, the GM believed he had excellent young players but didn't think the coach would play them...

Huh? Think? You must have taken the season off. Go look at the numbers. Barton and CJ didn't get minutes. Seems like cognitive dissonance or just plain ignorance.

and was fine with that and kept that coach on the payroll for the next 7 years. Sounds realistic.

That's literally what happened. For better or for worse. Not sure what you're challenging.

Bear in mind, you seem to feel anyone who thinks there's any redeeming quality to Stotts as a coach is an idiot--yet you lionize the GM who thinks he's a good coach. Cognitive dissonance.

I've been critical of Olshey plenty and have said on numerous occasions, the biggest mark on his legacy is his head coach. If firing him is the only way to get rid of Stotts then so be it.

Not sure where you're having trouble.

 

[Minstrel]

Huh? Think? You must have taken the season off. Go look at the numbers. Barton and CJ didn't get minutes.

You didn't read the post carefully. I said that you seem to believe that Olshey thought that Stotts wouldn't play excellent young players--and that Olshey was cool with that (as proven by continuing to employ him for many years after that). That's a fairly ridiculous thesis. No GM would be okay with their coach choosing not to play really talented young players. So the person you were responding to, who said Olshey didn't believe in CJ back then, was almost certainly right.

That's literally what happened. For better or for worse. Not sure what you're challenging.

What I'm challenging was your assumption that Olshey traded away Barton because, despite thinking Barton was great, he just didn't believe Olshey would play him. That's a silly assumption. A GM doesn't throw away talent because he believes the coach won't play talent--a GM throws away the coach in that situation.

I've been critical of Olshey plenty

You've consistently defended him, saying he's assembled great teams and every problem is solely Stotts' fault. You keep saying that Olshey shouldn't be fired, only Stotts.

As for the cognitive dissonance, you're holding two contradictory thoughts in your head: 1. anyone who thinks Stotts is a good coach is an idiot and 2. Olshey is an excellent GM despite thinking Stotts is a good coach.

Personally, I think both Olshey and Stotts are sub-mediocre. I don't think the Blazers will be a very good team until both are upgraded.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

You didn't read the post carefully. I said that you seem to believe that Olshey thought that Stotts wouldn't play excellent young players--and that Olshey was cool with that (as proven by continuing to employ him for many years after that). That's a fairly ridiculous thesis. No GM would be okay with their coach choosing not to play really talented young players. So the person you were responding to, who said Olshey didn't believe in CJ back then, was almost certainly right.

No, I read it carefully. A coach not playing his young guys is hardly unique. Olshey can think Stotts is a great coach and still understand that he has biases towards young players. Olshey drafted CJ in the lottery. It's a completely baseless claim to suggest Olshey didn't believe in CJ. It's the type of trash journalism that I would expect from a guy like Jason Quick. People have claimed for years that Olshey is too attached to his picks, especially in the lottery, but magically in this scenario he didn't believe in one? Please, do better.

What I'm challenging was your assumption that Olshey traded away Barton because, despite thinking Barton was great, he just didn't believe Olshey would play him. That's a silly assumption. A GM doesn't throw away talent because he believes the coach won't play talent--a GM throws away the coach in that situation.

Did I say Olshey thought Barton was great? If so, please indicate where. You're characterizing the trade as "throwing away talent" when it just simply wasn't. Afflalo at the time was one of the better guards in the league and he was playing well coming off our bench for Matthews. You can frame it however you want but it seems you're making assumptions that just don't live in reality.

You've consistently defended him, saying he's assembled great teams and every problem is solely Stotts' fault. You keep saying that Olshey shouldn't be fired, only Stotts.

I've never said Olshey shouldn't be fired and I've never said every problem is solely on Stotts. Stop with the blatant lies and characterizations. I have said on numerous occassions that Olshey has missed on drafting big men and won't take the big swing when it's available, ie Harden, Butler, George. Olshey is plenty responsible for Stotts' employment. I simply said that Olshey is much better at his job than Stotts and have shown that by where their peers put them.

As for the cognitive dissonance, you're holding two contradictory thoughts in your head: 1. anyone who thinks Stotts is a good coach is an idiot and 2. Olshey is an excellent GM despite thinking Stotts is a good coach.

I have actually said neither of these things so I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

Personally, I think both Olshey and Stotts are sub-mediocre. I don't think the Blazers will be a very good team until both are upgraded.

That's fine. Olshey's peers disagree with you. It's harder to find a really good GM than it is a really good coach. Stotts had a horrible record before he got to Portland. Olshey did not.

They are not equal. That's all I said. Try to follow along better if you're going to go out of your way to attack someone's stance.

 

[mook]

2013

Blazers trade the rights to Georgios Prentezis and a TPE to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Eric Maynor.

2014

No Moves at the deadline

2015

The Blazers trade Will Barton, Victor Claver, Thomas, a 2016 1st rnd pick (Malik Beasely), and TPEs for Aaron Afflalo and Alonzo Gee.

2016

The Blazers trade cash and a TPE to the Miami Heat for Brian Roberts and a 2021 2nd rnd pick (traded to Memphis as part of Kanter trade?)

The Blazers trade a 2020 2nd rnd pick (Vernon Carey Jr) and TPE to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao and a 2018 1st rnd pick (Moritz Wagner).

2017

The Blazers made their move early before the deadline trading Mason Plumlee and 2018 2nd rnd pick(Shake Milton) for Jusuf Nurkic and a 2017 1st rnd pick (Harry Giles)(Traded with 2017 1st rnd pick #15 Justin Jackson to the Kibgs for #10 Zach Collins.)


2018

The Blazers trade Noah Vonleh and cash to the Chicago Bulls for the rights to Milovan Rakovic and a TPE.

2019

The Blazers traded Caleb Swanigan to the Sacramento Kings for Skal Labissiere and a TPE.

The Blazers trade Nik Stauskas, Wade Baldwin, and 2 future 2nd picks (2021,2023) for Rodney Hood.

2020

The Blazers trade Skal Labissiere and cash to the Atlanta Hawks for a 2024 2nd rnd pick and a TPE.

The Blazers trade Kent Bazemore, Anthony Tolliver, and 2 future 2nd rnd picks to the Sacramento Kings for Trevor Ariza, Caleb Swanigan, and Wenyen Gabriel.



The 2017 trade netting Nurkic and eventually Collins is the only deadline deal that Neil did while GM that has paid off any. Well, and maybe Hood.

Thanks for posting this. Nice to see it all in one place.

The Nurkic trade really does stick out like a sore thumb among a sea of mediocrity and disappointment.

Portland has some of the best success in the league at turning non-lotto picks into NBA-caliber players. Kind of a shame how we seem to toss those picks around like they aren't worth anything, when the reality is they are worth more to us than anybody else.

 

[stampedehero]

Afflalo sucked even as a backup. That was one of the more shortsighted deals Neil has ever made. You don't even need to look at hindsight to know that it sucked.

Not to mention we had CJ on the bench at the time. If Neil believed in CJ half as much as he did now he would have never pulled the trigger.

I wonder what Affalo is doing these days?

 

[TBpup]

you forgot Bazemore and Tolliver, and two 2nd's for Ariza, Gabriel, and Swanigam. Considering the Blazers only got 21 games out of Ariza, I'd say that was probably slightly negative because of the 2nd's

So Bazemore, Tolliver, tw0 2nds, Ariza and two 1sts....for Covington.