Grade the Blazers' roster changes

[julius]

Like all the moves, but if after all of that, we are only up to 'challenging for HCA', that seems to fall a bit short. Perhaps Bobby and I have the same concerns. After all of these moves, and I like each of them to varying levels, (RoCo, Hood and Kanter the most / DJJ/Melo probably the least) they still have not addressed the biggest need.

Cans someone please explain what they have done that addresses the inevitable.....Dame being trapped in the Playoffs? Until there is at least somewhat of a solution, the rest is nice, but does not make them a legit contender.

Having guys who can hit 3's helps, and having guys who can drive to the hoop.

There really wasn't much help outside of CJ, Melo and Trent when it comes 3 point threats. And really, no one last year was a slasher/drive to the hoop.

Not saying a PG isn't needed, but I think people are acting like the team was just a PG away from being a top 5 team. They were lacking in defense from the SF and PF spots far more than they were lacking in a backup PG.


*help meaning "helping Damian"

 

[Natebishop3]

Having guys who can hit 3's helps, and having guys who can drive to the hoop.

There really wasn't much help outside of CJ, Melo and Trent when it comes 3 point threats. And really, no one last year was a slasher/drive to the hoop.

Not saying a PG isn't needed, but I think people are acting like the team was just a PG away from being a top 5 team. They were lacking in defense from the SF and PF spots far more than they were lacking in a backup PG.


*help meaning "helping Damian"

If ever there was a year for CJ to learn how to pass the fucking ball, this is the year.

 

[e_blazer]

Like all the moves, but if after all of that, we are only up to 'challenging for HCA', that seems to fall a bit short. Perhaps Bobby and I have the same concerns. After all of these moves, and I like each of them to varying levels, (RoCo, Hood and Kanter the most / DJJ/Melo probably the least) they still have not addressed the biggest need.

Cans someone please explain what they have done that addresses the inevitable.....Dame being trapped in the Playoffs? Until there is at least somewhat of a solution, the rest is nice, but does not make them a legit contender.

Top 4 IS contending. People get way too caught up in where the team stands on opening day. It’s where we are by the playoffs that counts. Trades and injuries impact the title almost every year.

 

[TBpup]

Top 4 IS contending. People get way too caught up in where the team stands on opening day. It’s where we are by the playoffs that counts. Trades and injuries impact the title almost every year.

I would disagree. They were #3 and were swept by the #6 Pelicans....who had never won a damn thing. It is because, they took out Dame, and there was no answer to it. And having HCA does NOT make a team a contender by a long shot. They were #3 that year and weren't CLOSE to being a contender.

They have added solid pieces and have depth. But I'm still looking for the answer to what happens when a team traps Dame.

 

[julius]

If ever there was a year for CJ to learn how to pass the fucking ball, this is the year.

I'm fine running the offense through Giles (if/when he plays) and Nurk, in addition to Dame. I think Simons is better at it than (apparently) most of the forum does. But need I remind us (again) how many of us gave up on Trent after his rookie year and about half of his 2nd year?

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm fine running the offense through Giles (if/when he plays) and Nurk, in addition to Dame. I think Simons is better at it than (apparently) most of the forum does. But need I remind us (again) how many of us gave up on Trent after his rookie year and about half of his 2nd year?

Ant looks like he lost his confidence, and that's largely because they have him playing point guard.

 

[julius]

I would disagree. They were #3 and were swept by the #6 Pelicans....who had never won a damn thing. It is because, they took out Dame, and there was no answer to it. And having HCA does NOT make a team a contender by a long shot. They were #3 that year and weren't CLOSE to being a contender.

They have added solid pieces and have depth. But I'm still looking for the answer to what happens when a team traps Dame.

Well, the #3 seed and the #6 seed *were* 1 game apart.

But last year, the #5 seed went to the finals in the eastern conference, so...

 

[TBpup]

Well, the #3 seed and the #6 seed *were* 1 game apart.

But last year, the #5 seed went to the finals in the eastern conference, so...

That's fine....but the post was, that top 4 was condenting. It's just not in so many cases. What seed was Denver the year we upset them? And they weren't a contender that year either.

 

[julius]

Ant looks like he lost his confidence, and that's largely because they have him playing point guard.

We don't know how he was asked to play, nor do we know how he'll play this season. Trent looked like ass for parts of last season, and he ended up fine. I think we all agree that Simons should have stayed in, or better yet, gone to college for at least a year more than he did.

Spoiler

meant season not summer

 

[julius]

That's fine....but the post was, that top 4 was condenting. It's just not in so many cases. What seed was Denver the year we upset them? And they weren't a contender that year either.

You could argue they weren't a contender this year, nor were the Clippers.

 

[Natebishop3]

You could argue they weren't a contender this year, nor were the Clippers.

I wonder how much worse Denver is going to be.

 

[TBpup]

I wonder how much worse Denver is going to be.

Losing Grant, Craig and Plumlee....that will be tough to replace.

 

[julius]

I wonder how much worse Denver is going to be.

This year to last?

I don't know. I do think what they lost is bad, but Porter might make up the difference.

 

[Natebishop3]

Losing Grant, Craig and Plumlee....that will be tough to replace.

I really feel like their depth is what made them so good.... paired with their stupid altitude.

I'm not so sure if they have that depth anymore.

 

[TBpup]

I really feel like their depth is what made them so good.... paired with their stupid altitude.

I'm not so sure if they have that depth anymore.

They have flip-flopped with Portland in terms of depth. Puts more pressure on Jokic/Murray.

 

[Natebishop3]

They have flip-flopped with Portland in terms of depth. Puts more pressure on Jokic/Murray.

And Jokic has shown that he can't handle big minutes. He gets tired.

 

[Blazinaway]

originally had b- now I am at B bordering B+

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Like all the moves, but if after all of that, we are only up to 'challenging for HCA', that seems to fall a bit short. Perhaps Bobby and I have the same concerns. After all of these moves, and I like each of them to varying levels, (RoCo, Hood and Kanter the most / DJJ/Melo probably the least) they still have not addressed the biggest need.

Cans someone please explain what they have done that addresses the inevitable.....Dame being trapped in the Playoffs? Until there is at least somewhat of a solution, the rest is nice, but does not make them a legit contender.

I think we're in a fantastic position. However, if we want to actually contend for a championship, we need what Neil promised when he got here:
C O N S O L I D A T I O N T R A D E (bringing in a top 20 player)
highlight over the above line for the compelling answer!

 

[julius]

I think we're in a fantastic position. However, if we want to actually contend for a championship, we need what Neil promised when he got here:
C O N S O L I D A T I O N T R A D E (bringing in a top 20 player)
highlight over the above line for the compelling answer!

Don't tell me what to do, jerkface! reported!

 

[TBpup]

originally had b- now I am at B bordering B+

Covington: (B+) Upside: Tremendous team defender and can shoot it a little. Downside: Not a playmaker.
Kanter: (A-) As good of a back-up Center as there is in the league and likely a better fit than HW.
DJJ: (C+) Great defender in a zone but Blazers don't play that. Can't shoot and got a lot of points in transition....which POR doesn't run.
Hood: (B) Good re-sign and provides wing depth. But recovery from that type of injury is iffy at best.
Melo: (B-) Veteran presence and can hit shots but terrible defensively and horribly inefficient. Maybe should be a (C+)
Giles: (B+) For what it is, VERY low risk for chance at high reward if healthy. Tremendous talent held back by balky knee.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Don't tell me what to do, jerkface! reported!

and when I want an "Orange Julius", I'll let YOU know!

 

[e_blazer]

I would disagree. They were #3 and were swept by the #6 Pelicans....who had never won a damn thing. It is because, they took out Dame, and there was no answer to it. And having HCA does NOT make a team a contender by a long shot. They were #3 that year and weren't CLOSE to being a contender.

They have added solid pieces and have depth. But I'm still looking for the answer to what happens when a team traps Dame.

I didn’t mean to say that a top four finish guarantees anything, just that if you want to be considered a contender, you need to finish in the top four. That’s only the first step, but it’s an important one. I don’t think there have been many NBA champs who finished in the bottom half of the bracket. A lot of NBA titles, though, have been won by teams that were neither the favorite at the start of the year or finished with the best record in their conference, including Portland’s only one.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I would disagree. They were #3 and were swept by the #6 Pelicans....who had never won a damn thing. It is because, they took out Dame, and there was no answer to it. And having HCA does NOT make a team a contender by a long shot. They were #3 that year and weren't CLOSE to being a contender.

They have added solid pieces and have depth. But I'm still looking for the answer to what happens when a team traps Dame.

I agree with this. We have been swept in the playoffs by real contenders. Have had some nice moments but at no time have we had a serious chance at winning it all.

Will say this is the best team we have put together though recently.

 

[JDC]

Covington (A-): Gave up some real value for him and isn't an elite wing stopper (still good), but he's a near perfect fit overall.
Hood (C+): If he's what he was last year (optimistic) this is fair value. Like that it's only for 2 years with a non-guarantee on the 2nd yr. Tradable mid-sized contract if things don't work out.
Derrick Jones Jr. (B-): A bit of an overpay, but gives us an elite finisher/cutter at forward that we sorely lacked last year. Will allows us to get to some very intriguing lineups defensively. If the shooting improves he gets really interesting.
Kanter (B): - Can't argue with the value. Good regular season depth if played in the right context. Nurkic insurance.
Melo (C-): - Can't be too mad at the minimum, and players and coaches clearly enjoyed him last year. Gives us a different look at the 4 but if roster is ever fully healthy he muddies the water for me, especially in the playoffs.
Giles (C+) - Never been a fan, but he passes well for a big and is young. Don't trust him defensively at either the 4 or 5 which I think will make it tough for him to find much of an opportunity.

Overall (B): Neil has struck a nice balance of regular season depth and playoff upside with this roster. Melo and Kanter both on the roster make me bit queasy and sorta worried that Terry won't play the optimal lineups, especially in the playoffs but overall pretty impressed. And if this group doesn't work, Neil acquired/signed some very tradable contracts to make an impact move.

Shaquille Harrison would a fun end to the off-season, but I'd be surprised if he isn't offered more than the minimum from somebody. *Forgot we still have the BAE

 

[blazerkor]

I'd bump my grade up one notch for the Giles signing... Fits a player type we didn't have coming off the bench and we could use, also could fill Collins role in both the short and long term (if Giles stays healthy for once and Collins never gets healthy).

Yeah, maybe we'll always have one of them healthy this season while the other is injured like some sick game of human whack-a-mole or I guess whack-a-big? That sounds awkward.

 

[Hoopguru]

Covington (A-): Gave up some real value for him and isn't an elite wing stopper (still good), but he's a near perfect fit overall.
Hood (C+): If he's what he was last year (optimistic) this is fair value. Like that it's only for 2 years with a non-guarantee on the 2nd yr. Tradable mid-sized contract if things don't work out.
Derrick Jones Jr. (B-): A bit of an overpay, but gives us an elite finisher/cutter at forward that we sorely lacked last year. Will allows us to get to some very intriguing lineups defensively. If the shooting improves he gets really interesting.
Kanter (B): - Can't argue with the value. Good regular season depth if played in the right context. Nurkic insurance.
Melo (C-): - Can't be too mad at the minimum, and players and coaches clearly enjoyed him last year. Gives us a different look at the 4 but if roster is ever fully healthy he muddies the water for me, especially in the playoffs.
Giles (C+) - Never been a fan, but he passes well for a big and is young. Don't trust him defensively at either the 4 or 5 which I think will make it tough for him to find much of an opportunity.

Overall (B): Neil has struck a nice balance of regular season depth and playoff upside with this roster. Melo and Kanter both on the roster make me bit queasy and sorta worried that Terry won't play the optimal lineups, especially in the playoffs but overall pretty impressed. And if this group doesn't work, Neil acquired/signed some very tradable contracts to make an impact move.

Shaquille Harrison would a fun end to the off-season, but I'd be surprised if he isn't offered more than the minimum from somebody.

Thats what I give them overall all B with signing of Giles

 

[blazerkor]

He just ham strung with his height and reach on defense. Olshey is paying for his offense and to me if that case he over paid.

You missed athleticism, DBBIQ and effort but he definitely is ham strung on defense. Olshey may not have overpaid for CJ's offense though. CJ is honestly one of the best offensive little guys in the game. We see it every time Dame is out. The fact is he just is not a fit next to Dame on offense and whether it's an inability or stubbornness CJ doesn't adjust where it seems it would be easy (taking open threes, rotating the ball quickly when covered, making quick decisions when receiving a pass from Dame out of the trap etc.). So obviously (and I mean that a little sarcastically because Olshey definitely hasn't caught on) his terrible defense next to a superstar with mediocre defense and his lack of fit offensively aren't the best use of that 30 million.

 

[blazerkor]

The national media is acknowledging Olshey's awesome work this offseason. I've been on his bandwagon from day 1. However, even as an Olshey Fanboi, I do have a serious criticism, here it goes:

/start rant

We need a good, vet. PG. Others will tell you we need it because of ball movement, and I don't disagree, but that's not the biggest problem I see.

We are deeeep, ALMOST everywhere.
If Nurk goes out, we can survive until the Playoffs.
If Collins goes out, ditto.
If CJ goes out, we might even be better!
However, if Lillard goes out, we're sunk, and not because he's our best player. It's not a talent issue, it's a replacement issue. Who plays PG?

Start CJ at the 1? F****
Start Ant at the 1? F****, F****

While we're mostly all excited about our roster, the West is still stacked, and we simply won't survive a Lillard injury.
Imagine if we had Kris Dunn or Jeff Teague? We'd survive until Lillard got back.

That's not the only problem. Because Ant, who is fantastic (I don't care what you think about this), is NOT a PG.
What that will mean is that in critical situations, Lillard's minutes will go up, increasing
1) the chance he'll get injured
2) the chance that he'll be exhausted in the playoffs (as he has been in the past)

We can afford neither.

/end rant

CJ has always done really well with the team at the 1 when Dame has been out with an injury. In games when Dame is sitting CJ isn't very effective rotating down to PG but hell he isn't really very effective next to Dame at SG. Basically we get the most out of CJ in games where Dame isn't playing, so unless Stotts has changed his mind and doesn't want CJ to get around 35 minutes a game, getting a really good backup PG is pointless.

 

[Hoopguru]

You missed athleticism, DBBIQ and effort but he definitely is ham strung on defense. Olshey may not have overpaid for CJ's offense though. CJ is honestly one of the best offensive little guys in the game. We see it every time Dame is out. The fact is he just is not a fit next to Dame on offense and whether it's an inability or stubbornness CJ doesn't adjust where it seems it would be easy (taking open threes, rotating the ball quickly when covered, making quick decisions when receiving a pass from Dame out of the trap etc.). So obviously (and I mean that a little sarcastically because Olshey definitely hasn't caught on) his terrible defense next to a superstar with mediocre defense and his lack of fit offensively aren't the best use of that 30 million.

There are certainly options now with a more mature Trent, Simons and even Jones to better defend front court.

 

[e_blazer]

Winner: Portland Trail Blazers
The Blazers went through almost the entire 2019-20 season with extremely limited wing options, and that was clearly a position of priority this offseason. After trading for Robert Covington from the Houston Rockets, the Blazers added athletic wing Derrick Jones Jr. in free agency, while re-signing Carmelo Anthony and Rodney Hood. That is a deep, talented crop of wings to put around Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum, with Jusuf Nurkic and Zach Collins in the middle. After a down year, Portland appears to be right back in the mix in the Western Conference.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...repeat-gordon-hayward-cashes-in-big-time/amp/