Grade the draft

[Mediocre Man]

You can talk to them starting July 1, and sign them on the 8th I think - but do not quote me on that 2nd part.

I will quote you on the second part of that because it's correct.

 

[Boob-No-More]

LOL. Totally agree. We basically drafted for the future and positioned ourselfs (by freeing up even more money) to go after a vet or 2 in free agency

And we would have even more money for free agency if we would have traded out of the 1st round instead of using the pick on a guy who may never play for us - he still counts against our available cap space during the off season.

We already hold the rights to a guy who is bigger and put up much better numbers in the same leagues as Claver. And we're getting ready to renounce his rights to free up a little more cap space. Freeland is less than a year and a half older than Claver. He put up much better numbers than Claver, against the same competition this year. Freeland's numbers were better last year than Clavers were this year (so better production at a comparable age). And, as a 30th pick, Freeland's cap hold is smaller than Claver's as a 22nd pick. Freeland was basically a young guy with potential who panned out - and as a result will never play for the Blazers. Which makes him a wasted pick. What's to prevent the exact same thing from happening with Claver? If he doesn't pan out, he was a wasted pick. If he lives up to his potential, he'll get a lot more money to continue playing in Europe and will likely never play for the Blazers - which again makes him a wasted pick.

Do people not remember where we were 3 years ago????? In KP I trust.

Yep, I do. Three years ago we passed on Paul Millsap as 30, 31 and 45 - and have lived to regret it. Prior to the 2006 draft, I wanted the Blazers to take Millsap at 30 or 31 (and can provide links to prove it). Passing on him was a huge mistake. This year, I wanted the Blazers to take Blair. I would have been happy taking him at 22, but passing on him at 31 and 33 was a huge mistake. It will come back to haunt us, just like passing on Millsap and letting him fall into the lap of a Western Conference rival was a huge mistake three years ago.

I think Pritchard has done a great job over all, but he is far from perfect. He has made mistakes in the past, and I think he failed to learn from them and repeated two of them yesterday. Time will tell, but I doubt Viktor Claver will ever play a regular season game for us. And, I'm absolutely 100% confident that DeJuan Blair will be much more productive, contribute more, and have a greater impact this coming season than Perdergraph and Cunningham combined - and it's not like he's going to some crap team where he will put up big numbers in a losing cause. He's going to a Western Conference power where he will be a back-up power forward - the same role he would have played in Portland.

BNM

 

[andalusian]

Not every star makes it in the NBA, but stars are MUCH more likely to succeed in the L than mediocre college players. There's some math involved there, if you need proof.

Again - you are ignoring role. Being a movie star does not make one automatically a racing driver (even if Paul Newman was). These guys were stars in the Pac-10 based on their offensive production - which is not the role we need from our backup PF.

We need tough defense and rebounding in this position. These guys were not tough defenders in the Pac-10 and only one of them was a good rebounder.

Frye offered us production as a jump shooter - which quite frankly - we will likely get from other members of the team - be it Rudy, Webster upon his return or elsewhere - but they did not provide good rebounding and defense production.

Frye's defensive win-score this year was 0.8 in 750 minutes. For a reference - Sergio, who is a horrible defender gave us 1.1. On the other hand, Chuck Hayes, who was never a star and went un-drafted - in 850 minutes gave Houston 1.7.

Frye's rebounding rate was 11.6%, Hayes gave the Rockets 17%, Landry who is much smaller pulled down 13.6% of the rebounds.

These guys did not give us the production we needed at the position - and their salary was much higher than what we will pay these new guys. There is no way we do not at the least break even - if you actually consider the fact that the extra cap space might allow us to get someone like Brandon Bass who was not a great catch as far as defense and rebounding - but is head and shoulders better offensively...

 

[Boob-No-More]

Pendergraph and Cunningham were not that good even in college. I don't think they will make a difference in the NBA.

Agreed. Pendergraph and Cunningham were both 4-year players who were mediocre as college seniors. Frankly, if you can't dominate by your 4th year in college (with all the good players leaving after one or two years), I see little hope that you will amount to much at the next level.

Brandon Roy was a 4-year college player, but as a senior he was 1st team all-american and Pac-10 player of the year. He was a dominant player as a college senior.

As a senior, Cunningham couldn't even make 1st team all conference in the Big East (that honor went to sophomore DeJuan Blair - who was also conference co-player of the year) and the only reason Pendergraph made 1st team all Pac-10 was they changed from 5 players on each 1st, 2nd and 3rd team to 10 players on the 1st team and 5 on the 2nd for the 2008-09 season. Under the old system, he would have been 2nd team all Pac-10.

BNM

 

[Ed O]

Again - you are ignoring role. Being a movie star does not make one automatically a racing driver (even if Paul Newman was). These guys were stars in the Pac-10 based on their offensive production - which is not the role we need from our backup PF.

...

These guys did not give us the production we needed at the position - and their salary was much higher than what we will pay these new guys. There is no way we do not at the least break even - if you actually consider the fact that the extra cap space might allow us to get someone like Brandon Bass who was not a great catch as far as defense and rebounding - but is head and shoulders better offensively...

And you're ignoring that hardnosed rebounders and defenders are a dime a dozen in college. For every Landry and Chuck Smith there are tons of guys who aren't big or athletic or good enough to fill that same role in the NBA. Not because they aren't tenacious or motivated enough... just that they're not good enough.

I would rather have a player that is capable at BOTH ends of the floor, rather than one (or two, as we drafted yesterday) who are going to be incapable of helping offensively. I would rather have one player with an exceptional skill (rebounding, for example, or shooting) than a player who just works hard. I would rather have a young player overseas who might develop into something important down the road than a guy who will almost certainly never be a starting level NBA player.

I also am not excited about relying on a rookie or two to man the backup power forward spot on a team that is claiming the window for winning a championship is currently open.

Ed O.

 

[andalusian]

And you're ignoring that hardnosed rebounders and defenders are a dime a dozen in college. For every Landry and Chuck Smith there are tons of guys who aren't big or athletic or good enough to fill that same role in the NBA. Not because they aren't tenacious or motivated enough... just that they're not good enough.

See - but here is where your argument fails - you argue that statistics show that stars at lower levels are more likely to succeed in the next level - and this is correct when you predict the future. It is absolutely means nothing when you actually look at the past and at individual players.

We already know, for sure, that Frye and Ike failed as NBA players on the Blazers at the position we needed them. The worst that could happen is that the Graph and Dante fail as well - but at a cheaper price.

So - in the worst case scenario - we replaced a couple of garbage guys for another couple of garbage guys that cost less and gave us more cap flexibility right before the time we needed to use that cap. Brilliant!

I would rather have a player that is capable at BOTH ends of the floor, rather than one (or two, as we drafted yesterday) who are going to be incapable of helping offensively. I would rather have one player with an exceptional skill (rebounding, for example, or shooting) than a player who just works hard. I would rather have a young player overseas who might develop into something important down the road than a guy who will almost certainly never be a starting level NBA player.

And you might get that through the extra money made available for the cap.

I also am not excited about relying on a rookie or two to man the backup power forward spot on a team that is claiming the window for winning a championship is currently open.

Oh please, if no changes are made - these guys are going to be the 3rd backup PFs on the team - just like Frye/Ike were last year (behind LMA/Outlaw). They mean very little change if no changes are made - but - the extra money gives us the option of upgrading either this position (or others that are more important, like perimeter defense).

It is really not that complicated. It all comes down to your assessment of these guy's success potential vs. the team's assessment. Given that they have done very well so far in their draft picks and given that they had more information than you had - I personally am not that upset. You obviously have the right to continue being upset - and maybe you will be proven right. Who knows.

 

[oldmangrouch]

And we would have even more money for free agency if we would have traded out of the 1st round instead of using the pick on a guy who may never play for us - he still counts against our available cap space during the off season.

We already hold the rights to a guy who is bigger and put up much better numbers in the same leagues as Claver. And we're getting ready to renounce his rights to free up a little more cap space. Freeland is less than a year and a half older than Claver. He put up much better numbers than Claver, against the same competition this year. Freeland's numbers were better last year than Clavers were this year (so better production at a comparable age). And, as a 30th pick, Freeland's cap hold is smaller than Claver's as a 22nd pick. Freeland was basically a young guy with potential who panned out - and as a result will never play for the Blazers. Which makes him a wasted pick. What's to prevent the exact same thing from happening with Claver? If he doesn't pan out, he was a wasted pick. If he lives up to his potential, he'll get a lot more money to continue playing in Europe and will likely never play for the Blazers - which again makes him a wasted pick.

BNM

BRAVO!

This should be required reading for anybody who wants to try and defend the Claver pick. The only point you missed, is that Freeland is healthier than Claver.

 

[LittleAlex]

Kevin Pritchard in an interview said the Blazers think very highly of Claver and targeted him going into the day. The Blazers had Claver in for workouts last year I believe. They like the guy.

KP actually said everything went to plan to day and it surprised him, because nothing ever goes as planned.

If what happened was KP's plan, then I am stunned.


That is one fucking horrible plan.

 

[STOMP]

And we would have even more money for free agency if we would have traded out of the 1st round instead of using the pick on a guy who may never play for us - he still counts against our available cap space during the off season.

We already hold the rights to a guy who is bigger and put up much better numbers in the same leagues as Claver. And we're getting ready to renounce his rights to free up a little more cap space. Freeland is less than a year and a half older than Claver. He put up much better numbers than Claver, against the same competition this year. Freeland's numbers were better last year than Clavers were this year (so better production at a comparable age).

was Freeland coming back from ACL surgery? I'm pretty sure that the thinking is that he wasn't up to snuff last year.

STOMP

 

[Boob-No-More]

was Freeland coming back from ACL surgery? I'm pretty sure that the thinking is that he wasn't up to snuff last year.

STOMP

No, he wasn't. I'm not sure I get your point. Weren't Claver's ACB stats from BEFORE his knee injury?

From DraftExpress:

"Claver was the definition of an opportunist before losing the vast majority of his season to a knee injury."

Freeland is less than a year and a half older than Claver, taller, and much more productive playing against the same competition. He's cheaper, fills a need and isn't damaged goods - and we're going to renounce him to free up a cap hold that is smaller than Claver's.

BNM

 

[number 10]

and we're going to renounce him to free up a cap hold that is smaller than Claver's.

KP has so far denied having any intention of doing so. At a minimum, his rights could be traded for a future 2nd rounder, I just don't see us flat out renouncing him. Koponen, on the other hand...

 

[Boob-No-More]

KP has so far denied having any intention of doing so. At a minimum, his rights could be traded for a future 2nd rounder, I just don't see us flat out renouncing him. Koponen, on the other hand...

If we don't renounce, or trade Freeland, his cap hold plus Claver's cap hold count nearly $2 million against our avalable cap space and puts a big dent in what we can offer any prospective free agents. $2 million isn't usually considered much money by NBA standards, but that's a difference of $2 million on the starting salary we can offer a free agent - which means about $11.5 million less over the length of a 5-year contract.

So, that is a significant amount of cap space tied up in two guys who won't be on our roster next season (or perhaps ever).

BNM

 

[Wizard Mentor]

cbs sports grade: F
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/11888745

Selection No. 22: Grade Video
Portland Trail Blazers select: Victor Claver, PF, Pamesa Valencia

Analysis: Will take Spanish star a few years to find Portland, which doesn't help club move up anytime soon ... In year of point guard, hard to believe team that needs one wouldn't go that direction. F

 

[Blazer4life]

cbs sports grade: F
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/11888745

LOL, I like how they give us an F for not picking up a PG when he picked up one at pick 55 who played in the Olympics for his country where he was the leading scorer and impressed players and coaches on team USA. Besides do they really think that anyone we drafted at pick 22 would've contributed right away and been better then Bayless. I don't think so.

 

[alex42083]

CNNSI: B

The temptation was to flunk GM Kevin Pritchard. One trade on draft night?!?! For Kevin Pritchard? The Blazers are not allowed to have a relatively uneventful couple of rounds. It's in the rules. It's in their DNA. The real impact was in getting away from money that can be invested in free agency, where Portland has a much better chance to make a meaningful splash to take the next playoff step. It got away from a guaranteed contract by taking a player at No. 22, Victor Claver, who is expected to stay overseas. It got away from another guaranteed contract by trading backup point guard Sergio Rodriguez, to the Kings for a second-round pick, Arizona State forward Jeff Pendergraph. Villanova forward Dante Cunningham came with the 33rd pick and St. Mary's point guard Patrick Mills the 55th.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...rd-cooper/06/26/grades/index.html?eref=sihpT1

 

[The_Lillard_King]

LOL, I like how they give us an F for not picking up a PG when he picked up one at pick 55 who played in the Olympics for his country where he was the leading scorer and impressed players and coaches on team USA. Besides do they really think that anyone we drafted at pick 22 would've contributed right away and been better then Bayless. I don't think so.

I agree. I'm not saying we did really well in the draft (I give it a C) . . . but if the logic is that the Blazers blew it because they need a PG and this was a PG rich draft, that is poor logic. If the Blazers need a PG to improve the team, they need to go after a proven NBA PG given their cap space situation, not a young PG that will take a couple years to develop.

Luckily the Blazers don't need a PG becuase they have Blake.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Q about Sergio: it seems that the Blazers did good by trading him to get away from his contract. What if the Blazers never exercized their option on Sergio this year, then they wouldn't have to give up anything to get away from the guarenteed contract . . . right?

Why did the Balzers even extend the contract on Sergio to begin with?

 

[Boob-No-More]

"The real impact was in getting away from money that can be invested in free agency, where Portland has a much better chance to make a meaningful splash to take the next playoff step. It got away from a guaranteed contract by taking a player at No. 22, Victor Claver, who is expected to stay overseas."

This is only half right. Yes, we get away from a guaranteed contract if Claver stays in Spain, but his cap hold still counts against our salary cap and impacts how much we can "invest in free agency". So, our supposed big splash in free agency is smaller than it would have been if we would have traded out of the 1st round.

BNM

 

[malarky]

I keep hearing that Claver, Freeland or Koponen will not be able to be signed if they turn into studs because we will not be able to match the money they are able to get in Europe. I don't believe this is true. According to the portion of the CBA linked and quoted below; If you wait for 3 years after drafting a player and still retain his rights you can sign him with any available cap or exception space. Freeland could be signed for any amount of our cap space this summer. Koponen will be available this way next summer and Claver will be available in the summer of 2012. I expect San Antonio to sign Tiago Splitter this way next summer.

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VIII.php#section2

Section 2. Rookie Contracts for Later-Signed First Round Picks.
Except as provided in Section 3 below, a First Round Pick who does not sign with the Team that holds his draft rights for any portion of the three (3) Seasons following the NBA Draft in which he was selected (and who did not play intercollegiate basketball during such period) may enter into either (a) a Rookie Scale Contract in accordance with Section 1 above, or (b) if the Team has Room in excess of the applicable first-year Rookie Scale Amount, a Contract covering no fewer than three (3) Seasons that provides for Salary plus Unlikely Bonuses in the first Salary Cap Year up to the amount of the Team’s Room and increases or decreases in Salary and Unlikely Bonuses in subsequent Salary Cap Years in accordance with Article VII, Section 5(c)(1).

 

[andalusian]

Why did the Balzers even extend the contract on Sergio to begin with?

Probably to see if playing extended minutes next to Rudy will revive his career, which it has, for a bit - to the tune that we got to move up from 38 to 31 for having him pay free elsewhere...

 

[Boob-No-More]

I keep hearing that Claver, Freeland or Koponen will not be able to be signed if they turn into studs because we will not be able to match the money they are able to get in Europe. I don't believe this is true. According to the portion of the CBA linked and quoted below; If you wait for 3 years after drafting a player and still retain his rights you can sign him with any available cap or exception space. Freeland could be signed for any amount of our cap space this summer. Koponen will be available this way next summer and Claver will be available in the summer of 2012. I expect San Antonio to sign Tiago Splitter this way next summer.

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VIII.php#section2

We won't have cap space next summer of the summer of 2012. Do you really want to use our cap space this summer to sign Freeland?

BNM

 

[malarky]

We won't have cap space next summer of the summer of 2012. Do you really want to use our cap space this summer to sign Freeland?

BNM

We will always have cap space or the MLE to sign these guys. No I don't think we should use the space on Freeland. I was pointing out that it is an option available to us.

 

[cdub503]

i picked B but more twoards B- i like pendagraph hes a fucking horse, claver dont know shit about him but in kp i trust, cunningham ill roll with seems pretty decent, and patty mills is a freaking steal at 55.... probably been said before but meh. kinda sad we didnt get blair but his knees must have red flag, caution tape, and bright ass orange cones around them because for him to slip that far they must have been more jacked up than (could go with a michael jackson joke right now but wont...) a hooker on crack....

 

[Blaze01]

If I recall, POR has to maintain a certain number of roster spots (12 I think)...they will have only 10 (raef, sergio, shavlik, ruffin & frye). I think the minimum amount of around 495,000 is charged for each spot. So Claver really only costs POR around 450,000, and Freeland and Koppnen's cost would be slighly less. I could see them cutting or trading away 1 of them, but the cost to POR is rather small.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Call me crazy, but I think Claver is on the move. I know he "feels" like a KP pick, but if healthy he was probably going to be a lottery talent if not this year then next year, he's going to have some value for a team that is looking to shed salary in the near term, but also doesn't just want to do a pure salary dump with no talent coming back; bottom line I think there's a strong possibility his caphold never ends up mattering.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If I recall, POR has to maintain a certain number of roster spots (12 I think)...they will have only 10 (raef, sergio, shavlik, ruffin & frye). I think the minimum amount of around 495,000 is charged for each spot. So Claver really only costs POR around 450,000, and Freeland and Koppnen's cost would be slighly less. I could see them cutting or trading away 1 of them, but the cost to POR is rather small.

Actually, they already have 11 - Claver makes 12. So anyone else (Koponen, Freeland) will count the full rookie scale salary against the cap - unless they are renounced. Which is why they will likely renounce their rights to Koponen and Freeland. This also assumes they renounce Channing. If not, Claver makes 13 and his entire rookie scale salary would also count against the Blazers cap.

Darius Miles - $9,000,000

Joel Przybilla - $6,857,725

Greg Oden - $5,361,240

LaMarcus Aldridge - $5,844,826

Steve Blake - $4,930,000

Travis Outlaw - $4,000,000

Martell Webster - $4,344,000

Brandon Roy - $3,910,816

Jerryd Bayless - $2,143,080

Rudy Fernandez - $1,165,320

Nicolas Batum - $1,118,760

BNM - $0.00

 

[Nikolokolus]

Actually, they already have 11 - Claver makes 12. So anyone else (Koponen, Freeland) will count the full rookie scale salary against the cap - unless they are renounced. Which is why they will likely renounce their rights to Koponen and Freeland. This also assumes they renounce Channing. If not, Claver makes 13 and his entire rookie scale salary would also count against the Blazers cap.

Darius Miles - $9,000,000

Joel Przybilla - $6,857,725

Greg Oden - $5,361,240

LaMarcus Aldridge - $5,844,826

Steve Blake - $4,930,000

Travis Outlaw - $4,000,000

Martell Webster - $4,344,000

Brandon Roy - $3,910,816

Jerryd Bayless - $2,143,080

Rudy Fernandez - $1,165,320

Nicolas Batum - $1,118,760

BNM - $0.00

Darius doesn't count as a roster spot.

 

[andalusian]

BNM - $0.00

How much longer do we need to carry this bum on the roster?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Darius doesn't count as a roster spot.

Well that stinks. So, we not only have to pay him his $9 million and have it count against the cap, we have to add in another rookie min cap hold because he doesn't count as a roster spot.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

How much longer do we need to carry this bum on the roster?

Don't worry. I'm an expiring contract and will probably be traded after July 1. I'd love to finish my career in Portland, but I understand this is a business and the Blazer have to do what's best for the team.

BNM