Great analysis of Blazer offense, with vids

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Wait, I thought we only ran 3 plays?
 
Yeah, my bad. I was inlcuding the Sergio-Rudy alleyoop as a separate play. With Sergio gone, we are back down to iso and PnR. Ah well.
 
With the exception of Shaq, Oden might be the strongest player in the league.
 
Does this guy post here? I want to rep him a million times.

He really does a good, thorough job of breaking down the offense. It took me about an hour to go through all of it and it was time well spent. I can't wait for next season!!
 
What stood out to me was how little Roy and Oden hooked up. I counted about 3 times throughout the whole video. If there is one part of Roy's game I would like to see him improve on is getting GO a few easy shots a game. Driving in the lane and dishing to GO will create even more room for Roy. Hopefully their chemistry improves next year.
 
For everyone that says (mainly fans of other teams) that Oden looked terrible his rookie year can watch those highlights and suck it. If you don't see that he has the potential to be a good offensive player and a defensive monster, you're one biased mother f'er. I just pray he reaches his potential.
 
Does this guy post here? I want to rep him a million times.

He really does a good, thorough job of breaking down the offense. It took me about an hour to go through all of it and it was time well spent. I can't wait for next season!!

I think he used to on bbf. Or was it OLive?
 
Wow, the jump shot to drive ratio is scary. Great video's though.
 
For everyone that says (mainly fans of other teams) that Oden looked terrible his rookie year can watch those highlights and suck it. If you don't see that he has the potential to be a good offensive player and a defensive monster, you're one biased mother f'er. I just pray he reaches his potential.

No doubt. If all you knew about Oden was what you saw in that video, you'd probably think we had a young, slightly shorter Shaq on our hands. He just looks so strong and athletic and huge out there.

Of course, you could put together a video that convincingly demonstrates we've got the next Eric Dampier too.

But still...how many players in this league have a highlight reel that makes them look like a young Shaq? Not many.
 
Wow, the jump shot to drive ratio is scary. Great video's though.

I just spent about an hour watching those videos and came away with the same feeling. Granted a lot of those jumpers are open in the regular season, it became a completely different animal in the playoffs with Houston contesting everything. In addition to the comments by that poster about passing it in to Oden more, I would like to see us run more to get easy buckets. (how many times does that need to be said? :confused:)
 
The number of jumpshots should definitely go down.

Andre Miller takes almost all of his shots from inside 16 feet. The guy averaged 5 free throws a game.

Aldridge showed an increasing interest in playing in the low post last year.

Guys are going to be looking more and more for Oden to catch any old kind of junk lobbed into the middle for the dunk.

Batum demonstrated on his French team that he's got a good handle and a pretty nasty driving ability. I look for Nate to encourage that a little more in him. Both he and Rudy were rookies and were clearly told to just play to their greatest strength (catch-and-shoot). But both guys have a lot more game than that.

Roy is going to be playing more off the ball, meaning he's going to be getting the ball going toward the rim more instead of creating at the top of the key.

Bayless will probably see a few more minutes this year. He definitely is not a jump shooter by nature.

Channing "20 foot jumper" Frye is gone.

You just look down the line of personnel and everything points to us taking fewer jump shots next season. The lone contradiction is the return of Webster, and if you look at him as offsetting some Sergio's minutes, well, that's a tradeoff in jump shooting I'll gladly take.
 
Wow, the jump shot to drive ratio is scary. Great video's though.

Well, when only one player (Roy) could drive, and when the two low post centers were offensive liabilities (at least in terms of set plays), you'll see a lot of jump shots. The fact the team shot well and got open looks shows me that Nate built his offense around the strengths of the players he had last season.
 
Well, when only one player (Roy) could drive, and when the two low post centers were offensive liabilities (at least in terms of set plays), you'll see a lot of jump shots. The fact the team shot well and got open looks shows me that Nate built his offense around the strengths of the players he had last season.




9 years and the same offense. It's not about last year.
 
Bayless will probably see a few more minutes this year.

Really? At whose expense? As I see it:
Last year:
PG:
Starter = Blake
Backup = Sergio v. Bayless (and Sergio won this, which is saying something given Nate's distaste at Sergio's game)
SG:
Starter = Roy
Backup = Rudy

This year you've got Blake and Miller together likely to take up ALL the PG minutes - certainly more than Blake and Sergio, and you've also got Rudy almost certain to get more minutes. Maybe Roy could move to SF more, but with Webster's return and Batum's emergence, I just don't see that happening. I frankly can't see ANY minutes for Bayless, unless Blake and/or Miller go down. Now, with Blake this is possible. But how many games in his entire career has Miller missed?
 
9 years and the same offense. It's not about last year.

Who did he have that could drive and finish in Seattle his last three years there? His teams there were built on perimeter players like Allen, Lewis, Ridnour. Plus, an older Gary Payton had some of the best offensive years of his career under Nate's coaching when he first got the Seattle gig.
 
Really? At whose expense? As I see it:
Last year:
PG:
Starter = Blake
Backup = Sergio v. Bayless (and Sergio won this, which is saying something given Nate's distaste at Sergio's game)
SG:
Starter = Roy
Backup = Rudy

This year you've got Blake and Miller together likely to take up ALL the PG minutes - certainly more than Blake and Sergio, and you've also got Rudy almost certain to get more minutes. Maybe Roy could move to SF more, but with Webster's return and Batum's emergence, I just don't see that happening. I frankly can't see ANY minutes for Bayless, unless Blake and/or Miller go down. Now, with Blake this is possible. But how many games in his entire career has Miller missed?

Yeah, you might be right there. Bayless and Webster are going to be fighting for every scrap of playing time they can get. Between Webster and Bayless, my money is on Bayless winning out.

But injuries happen. Rudy is playing in Europe in the summer, which isn't always great for players, and Blake gets the odd injury every once in a while. Same with Roy. You can pretty much forget about Miller missing games though.

So at best Bayless probably gets the same number of minutes as last year.

Damn, Bayless. Where were you a few years ago when we had point guards like NVE, Damon, Telfair, Jeff McInnis, Eric Barkey, Omar Cooke, Antonio Daniels, Dan Dickau, old Rod Strickland.....jesus we've had a depressing string of point guards.

Andre Miller is going to be such a breath of fresh air.
 
What stood out to me was how little Roy and Oden hooked up. I counted about 3 times throughout the whole video. If there is one part of Roy's game I would like to see him improve on is getting GO a few easy shots a game. Driving in the lane and dishing to GO will create even more room for Roy. Hopefully their chemistry improves next year.

Enter Andre Miller, stage left. :cheers:
 
Enter Andre Miller, stage left. :cheers:

Filling the Blazers with talented Rookies and the benches with prospects, Pritchard then filled the court with Andre . . . and then He declared that it was good.
 
Where are the countless amount of people I (and others) have debated with that Nate runs a lot more than 2 plays? The sad part is; those people will discount visual evidence that their statements are false. Could one of you at least admit that they were wrong?

Regardless, this is probably the best post I've ever read on any message board. I've wanted to do this for years, however I couldn't give access to the software I use, nor did I want to take the time that this guy did. The NBA game, more than any other level, has offenses that are based on read and react principles. This video is a wonderful demonstration of how Nate puts his best players in the most positions to get a high percentage look, and hides the worst shooter while making him valuable to the offense in some capacity.
 
Where are the countless amount of people I (and others) have debated with that Nate runs a lot more than 2 plays? The sad part is; those people will discount visual evidence that their statements are false. Could one of you at least admit that they were wrong?

Regardless, this is probably the best post I've ever read on any message board. I've wanted to do this for years, however I couldn't give access to the software I use, nor did I want to take the time that this guy did. The NBA game, more than any other level, has offenses that are based on read and react principles. This video is a wonderful demonstration of how Nate puts his best players in the most positions to get a high percentage look, and hides the worst shooter while making him valuable to the offense in some capacity.

It really is an amazing piece of journalism, because that's what it is.... journalism. That guy should be given some serious kudos.
 
i cringe everytime i see greg come down after a dunk, his legs often look like they are gonna buckle. great vids though, cool synching with the Pac track on the ooooo's
 
Wow, the jump shot to drive ratio is scary. Great video's though.
I was very frustrated watching some of those clips with the number of times the 'roller' was wide open at or near or rolling to the basket, yet the ball was tossed outside for a jumpshot. And a lot of those outside shots, with a post player open underneath, were misses (and long rebounds to the other team).
 
You've gotta be kidding me.

I just wrote the longest post I ever have written for this site (I know, saying a lot) talking about these videos. I hit "post reply" and get the "you've been logged in since the last time you tried to access this screen" page. Post deleted.
 
Couple of points (in outline format) on a great post. Would have been longer, but...

I. Kind of a cherry-picked sample size. I understand the author's reasons for focusing on the late-season and playoff games (more familiar with coach's sets; better chemistry) but if you're going to use film to refute the notion that we had a "stagnant" offense (as some posters want to do) then it makes sense that you use stuff from DEC, JAN and FEB (when posters were complaining about stagnant offenses) mixed in with the newer stuff. But for the author's points: "what are the reasons behind the Blazers' high offensive efficiency" and "what plays did we really run", then it's a good starting point.

II. Problems w/the Blazer Offense
This study does a great job of pointing out some of the problems in the Blazers' offense. For someone that would claim our offense is in good shape, this really is kind of an eye-opener.
A. The "All we run are iso's and pick-and-xxx's" claim.
1...
I am more than happy to admit that a lot of Blazers' sets are actually straight-up 1-on-1 for Roy, Aldridge and Outlaw. But I'd also argue that 1-on-1 has always been (and will always be) one of the essential plays in basketball of all levels and the Blazers didn't actually call too much 1-on-1 plays compared to other teams, especially those with a superstar wing player plus a borderline all-start (sic) big man[/b]
This is something that the author didn't prove in the post, though I'd like to see/do an analysis of that. How many teams have an all-star wing, and a good PF? What are the ratios of 1on1's in those offenses? Regardless, though, we run a LOT of 1on1's for Roy and LMA and (how does he fit in to "All-Star Wing" or "borderline All-star big"?) Outlaw.
2. The pick-and-xxx
One of our primary plays was the pick-and-(XXX)...the play starting with a high screen at the top. When executed perfectly (unfortunately it happened few and far between) it led to an easy basket opportunity. However, either because the big man didn't roll or the guard didn't dare to pass or both. While this is definitely an area for improvement for next season, it'd be a huge mistake to write off this play just because it doesn't always result in an easy basket under the rim.
I'll split this up into (a) big man not rolling and (b) guard didn't dare to pass;
(a) Big man didn't roll. One of the problems I had with the offense was the dearth of times the PF (didn't matter if it was LMA or Outlaw or Frye) didn't roll to the hoop. The pick-and-pop is an ok variation of the pick-and-roll, but the two point jumper between 8 and 23 feet is the one of the worst-efficiency shots there is (behind dunks/layups, FTs and 3's). LMA shoots 41% from there, Travis 43%, Frye 42%. Even the author says:
tons of Aldridge & Outlaw's shots were generated from this play.
(b) guard didn't dare to pass---this is a big criticism that most of us have of Blake (and to some extent, Roy). Fortunately, though, this is one of the things I think/hope/pray that Andre Miller will be able to do with his eyes closed: Figure out who needs the ball, and where, and get it to them in a position to score.

3. Roy's mid-range sets. This was the part of the article that changed my mind the most. I, like many, had previously lumped this in as a "Roy Iso". Even the author understands.
"But this play is very little different from just letting Roy play 1-on-1!" Some of you may be arguing now, and to a certain degree I agree.
But after seeing his breakdown, I'm able to break this out as a different play-call that the normal Roy iso at the top of the key. The author said something else I agreed with in this paragraph.
Secondly, without this play Roy's touches would've come from either high pick-and-roll (or isolation without a screen), which is not something you want to run for him all night, or spot-up outside shots, which is grossly inefficient compared to other aspects of Roy's game.
This isn't just a problem for Roy. Outside shots (except for Rudy, Blake and maybe Webster) are the worst part of a players' game. But outside 2-pointers (as explained up in IIA above) are not only bad parts of players' games; they're the most inefficient. And yet two of our 3 most prolific shooters last year got "tons of their shots" in this inefficient area.

4. The other stuff--I wish we could see more. The author does some good analysis and laying out why they'd work (especially for us), but the numbers of how many times we run these "other stuff" offenses compared to the iso, the P&R and the P&P are anemic.
(a) The Hi-Lo: There were only two clips in there that were of the pure hi-lo, for good reason. We only broke it out for the MIL game. I remember watching that and getting very excited, since it seemed that we were finally opening up the playbook and involving Greg by getting him the ball in position to score. But we didn't continue, and the author takes a lot of space to discuss a play that we used in only one game. We had a couple of Hi-Lo variations off of the pick-and-roll, but even that wasn't used much. One of the great commentaries of the author:
"This was the perfect point for LMA to make a pass (to a wide open Oden at the rim) but he didn't".
(b) Post-initiated offense: I won't talk a lot about this, other than to say we didn't use this much either, though I think that both Oden and LMA are smart enough and decent enough passers to utilize this more.

B. The "We're only an efficient offense b/c of our offensive rebounding" (I'll call this the "Mediocre Man Special"). The author basically sums up his analysis with this:
In short, Roy's awesomeness and entire team's incredible offensive rebounding rate are no doubt two major reasons for the offensive efficiency number.
He does say that Nate's offensive system is "an equally, if not more important, factor", but I'll address that in the "Logic Jumps" part in section 3.

C. The "Nate really runs a good offense" claim
The contention that I've made in the past is that, while I'll happily admit Nate's a good coach for the team due to his installation of discipline, the trust the players have in him, etc.; I'm not sure that his game-planning or X's and O's had much to do with the efficiency of the offense. At least, not as much as having Brandon Roy (and to a lesser extent, LMA/Oden/Przy). The author backs that up.
. In fact many times when he only half-started his move he would already find the open teammates. This could be attributed to his ability to draw double-team, his vision, unselfishness and, again, great spacing of our outside shooters. Do those plays have anything to do with coach's X's and O's? No, they are rather instinctive read-and-reaction by Roy.
At another point he states what, to some of us, is painfully obvious
What we've seen from time to time last season is our offense becoming stagnant with hardly any movement and relying too much on 1-on-1.
He's done a good job of breaking up the videos to show the different plays, but he doesn't talk about the percentages of, say, pick-and-pops to hi-los, and his analysis is more damning. But to be fair, when he talks about his optimism for the future, he talks about Andre Miller and organic growth. Maybe Nate's offense is fine, and the players just need to grow into better ball players.

III. There are a couple of odd logic jumps.
A. He says that "But the offensive system that McMillan and assistant coaches have installed for the team is an equally, if not more, important factor (to the team's offensive efficiency)". I disagree with this conclusion. He doesn't really build up to it in any of the video posts or analysis, other than the "spacing" aspect. The author tries to say in the summary that "It features spacing, simplicity and discipline. It puts players in positions where they know how to operate". I submit that this isn't the case. The author has said that the pick and roll frequently wasn't executed properly because the big man wouldn't roll or the guard wouldn't pass to him. That's not "knowing how to operate". The author said that LMA and Travis got "tons of their shots" on the mid-range jumper, one of the most inefficient shots in basketball and one they're shooting in the low 40%'s on. That's not "knowing how to operate". We had painfully few fast break opportunities off of our outstanding rebounding. Not recognizing that fastbreak dunks and layups are among the most efficient shots in basketball isn't "knowing how to operate".

All in all, great work and good post. My opinion is basically to agree with the premise the author puts out that our efficiency is basically great because of "Roy's awesomeness and offensive rebounding", I don't think he showed that we have a complex, or varied, or un-stagnant offense. I agree with the author that
Aside from the P&R play in which Oden rolls inside and actually get the ball, this P&R + Hi-Lo play is the one I want to see added to the Blazers' playbook the most in the next season.
 
Last edited:
Good post, BFW.

I've become a bigger Nate fan largely as a result of researching that PER thread I did last week. And maybe a little because it's been so long since I've seen a live Blazer game that I forget how stagnant the offense occasionally got.

But maybe some of Nate's "unimaginative/stagnant" offense is due to personnel and their lack of experience. When you give a kid a bike, you let him ride it around with training wheels for a little while so they get their confidence up and get comfortable with how it works and form good habits. Nate was giving the "training wheels treatment" to Oden, Batum, Sergio, Frye, Bayless and Fernandez last year. They had tightly defined roles, and almost seemed afraid of veering from them. Roy, Outlaw and Aldridge were the only guys who seemed to have the latitude to do what they wanted within the offense. (Blake had lots of latitude, but little talent to do anything with it. Przybilla had no role on offense other than setting picks, and he really never will or should.) When you have that many guy being limited to just a few roles, it's going to lead to a less dynamic offense.

This year a lot of training wheels should be coming off.

Sergio and Frye are gone.

Andre Miller almost certainly won't be on any kind of training wheel treatment. That guy's the real deal, and will be working to his full capabilities from the opening tip until the final game of the year.

In his first preseason game last year, Rudy showed he could dominate the offense with his passing, even going so far as to dish out of the post. (Did Rudy post up once during the regular season?) With a pretty nice summer in Europe, I have to believe he's going to get more reigns this year. Moreso, our bench looked really stagnant and limited in the playoffs last year. It had to open up Nate's eyes that we need to get more out of Rudy, even if it means getting less out of Outlaw.

Batum has shown a lot on the French team. I'm sure it isn't escaping Nate's notice. Oden is going to be more involved in the offense just by virtue of having Miller on the team.

Webster will be getting more latitude in the few minutes he gets. Bayless will probably be stuck where he is, on the bench.

I found that post to be a really instructive history lesson of the 2008-09 season's offense, but I don't know that it really defines how this team does going forward. As the training wheels start to come off, we should see a lot less stagnation and a lot more imagination.

One last thought--there are some dads who leave those training wheels on too long, overly protective of seeing their kid come to harm on the bike. The dad fails to realize he's actually limiting his kid, underestimating what he really can do, and impeding progress. Nate certainly isn't there right now, but the biggest story of this season is how much he is willing to loosen the reigns on these guys like he did with Roy and Aldridge. When I look back at the bike wreck of Zach Randolph's career, though, I tend to prefer seeing those wheels on a little too long than too short.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top