Greatest Small Forward Ever

[Stevenson]

Hope I'm not overstaying my welcome with this series of posts!

This is the hardest catagory for me. I vote Larry Bird, but a case could be made for almost any of them. In the end, it will probably be LeBron, but not yet.

 

[STOMP]

if one takes the term greatest to mean lifetime accomplishments (like championships, career stats etc...), then Barry Bird and PIP are fighting it out. I voted for LJ as he's the best I've seen play

STOMP

 

[Reep]

Lebron is very good and going to be great, but Larry was amazing. Bird was a better rebounder and passer, and those dagger threes he hit to win games.

 

[LittleAlex]

Bird was absurdly good. Talked a lot of smack and backed it all up.

I fucking hate the the Celtics and I still think Bird was the best small forward ever.

LeBron may very well over take him someday, though.

 

[Boob-No-More]

This one is going to be tough. Bird actually played PF for the first half of his career, but right now, I think it comes down to Bird and Pippen. When all is said and done, I think it will be LeBron (barring injuries limiting the remainder of his career).

God, there's some great players on that list. I think this is the toughest of all the postions to pick a winner. Some of those guys were insane scorers, some were great defenders, some great passers, some great in all aspects, and some of them excelled in the post season. Can you imagine how insanely good the Blazers would be right now with any one of those guys (in their prime) starting at SF?

BNM

 

[Trader Ed]

That is a very tough poll.... but I have to go with da Bird man..

Pippen Worthy Erving.. WOW, that is some amazing talent

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

He may not be the best, but in my opinion, if I was starting a team and needed to pick a SF, I would pick Pippen.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

How the hell is lebron james on this poll? and why did you guys vote for him? lol, no rings, one mvp, no jumpshot, he is not even half way through his career and has not yet been the best player in the nba, so he is the best all time sf? end rant

I voted for dr J because i figured everyone would vote for bird and I freaking love Dr J. Him in the open court was amazing to see, better than lebron imo

 

[bbwchingy0007]

Right now for me it's Bird, but in 10-15 years time I think LeBron would be the man. He's likely to get 5+ MVP trophies (my guess is probably 7 or 8), some near triple-double seasons and a few rings too. Would be pretty tough to argue against him if he gets that.

 

[axs88]

How the hell is lebron james on this poll? and why did you guys vote for him? lol, no rings, one mvp, no jumpshot, he is not even half way through his career and has not yet been the best player in the nba, so he is the best all time sf? end rant

You must be living in 2006.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Pip. His defense was masterful. His versatility and explosiveness on offense was seriously exceptional. Basketball is much more than just putting the ball in the basket. He'll always be one of my favorite sports' figures of all time.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

I love Larry Bird, but I think its crazy to think that he was a better overall player than Lebron is now.

 

[Moo2K4]

Right now it's Bird. He did basically everything you could do in a career. LeBron will be there, but it's Bird right now.

And for what it's worth, it absolutely sickens me that 5 people have actually voted for LeBron, a guy who's only been in the league for 6 years, over numerous players who are in the HOF.

 

[THE HCP]

Lebron is very good and going to be great, but Larry was amazing. Bird was a better rebounder and passer, and those dagger threes he hit to win games.

I'm old school, and have mad respect for Bird, Dr. J and guys like that. BUT how can you say 'Bron is "very good and going to be great"? He has been great since he played his first game in the L! I don't have career #'s in front of me, but was Larry really a better passer and rebounder? Shooting 3's, yes, but the rest? I don't remember seeing Bird snatch a board and go coast to coast the way LBJ does. James is the same size as Karl Malone, but has the skills of a PG! As hard as it is for me to say, we are currently watching a player that will someday be considered THE BEST EVER!

 

[Eastoff]

I'm just curious why Drexler isn't on this list =[

 

[THE HCP]

Because Clyde was a 2.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

You must be living in 2006.

compared to other players in the league, it's average. Sorry. Watch how people guard him now. Constantly daring him to shoot.

Sorry guys, but i am completely shocked lebron is second in the voting. His career isn't even close to over. Plenty of players look amazing in their firs 5-6 years then just die. Speaking of that, where is grant hill? his first 5-6 years are pretty comparable to lebrons... just saying.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'm old school, and have mad respect for Bird, Dr. J and guys like that. BUT how can you say 'Bron is "very good and going to be great"? He has been great since he played his first game in the L! I don't have career #'s in front of me, but was Larry really a better passer and rebounder? Shooting 3's, yes, but the rest? I don't remember seeing Bird snatch a board and go coast to coast the way LBJ does. James is the same size as Karl Malone, but has the skills of a PG! As hard as it is for me to say, we are currently watching a player that will someday be considered THE BEST EVER!

Bird averaged 10 rpg for his career, so yes, he was definitely a better rebounder than Lebron is. I would say that Lebron is a better passer though. Bird was also a better shooter than Lebron in all aspects--not just from 3, but also from 2, from the line, and in the clutch.

Lebron has far greater strength and athleticism than Bird ever had, and he's great because of it. Bird lacked strength and athleticism, and he was even greater in spite of it.

 

[MadeFromDust]

"Greatest" and "best" aren't the same thing, just FYI.

This is easily Bird, for now.

 

[Reep]

I'm old school, and have mad respect for Bird, Dr. J and guys like that. BUT how can you say 'Bron is "very good and going to be great"? He has been great since he played his first game in the L! I don't have career #'s in front of me, but was Larry really a better passer and rebounder?

Bird at 23: 10.4 reb, 4.5 asst
LBJ at 23: 7.9 reb, 7.2 asst

Bird at 24: 10.9 reb, 5.5 asst
LBJ at 24: 7.6 reb, 7.2 asst

Bird averaged 10.0 reb/game over his career--playing next to Parish and McHale!!

Lebron is on a team where he is the primary scoring option and ball handler. I would argue that Bird's assists came in the game flow, not from dominating the ball (Damon type assists). So, Lebron gets more total assists (although Bird increased to over 7 asst/game in his late 20s and early 30s), but I believe Bird was a much better passer. He just didn't dominate the ball as much.

I doubt Lebron will ever hit 10 reb/game. He will score more points than Bird, but Bird had more scorers around him. And I haven't even talked about rings yet. Lebron isn't there yet.

Forgot to mention that Bird shot 50% from the field and 88% from the line for a career. LBJ is at 47% and 74%--and Bird rarely dunked.

 

[Stevenson]

Bird may have the highest basketball IQ of any player I have ever seen, or maybe it was Magic, but they both were leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.

 

[axs88]

compared to other players in the league, it's average.

I don't have league shooting stats on jumpers in front of me, but I doubt he's average. Even if he were, it doesn't matter, because you didn't say his jump shot is average, but that he has 'no jump shot'.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

I'm old school, and have mad respect for Bird, Dr. J and guys like that. BUT how can you say 'Bron is "very good and going to be great"? He has been great since he played his first game in the L! I don't have career #'s in front of me, but was Larry really a better passer and rebounder? Shooting 3's, yes, but the rest? I don't remember seeing Bird snatch a board and go coast to coast the way LBJ does. James is the same size as Karl Malone, but has the skills of a PG! As hard as it is for me to say, we are currently watching a player that will someday be considered THE BEST EVER!

Hated doing it, but repped ya!

Replace Bird with Lebron on those Celtic teams and there is no doubt that they win more games and more championships.

 

[Run BJM]

Voted for Bird but just wanna hold it down for Rick Barry who was one of the best all around players at the 3. There wasn't anything on the court he couldn't do, he lead the Warriors to their only NBA title in a huge upset of Wes Unseld's Bullets, he was a fantastic athlete and insane competitor perhaps even more competitive than Bird.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

Hated doing it, but repped ya!

Replace Bird with Lebron on those Celtic teams and there is no doubt that they win more games and more championships.

wow, put lebron on that team and there goes the chemistry. The celtics of the 80's played the way basketball is supposed to be played. All of birds point, assists, rebounds etc all came in the flow of an offense. Unlike the cavs that have lebron hold the ball for 20 seconds, and if he can't get a shot off by then or is double teamed, he passes to a wide open teammate for a jumper. His 7 assists per game are probably the least impressive 7 assists anyone has ever gotten in the league. The cavs offensive "system" is a joke.

 

[Reep]

wow, put lebron on that team and there goes the chemistry. The celtics of the 80's played the way basketball is supposed to be played. All of birds point, assists, rebounds etc all came in the flow of an offense. Unlike the cavs that have lebron hold the ball for 20 seconds, and if he can't get a shot off by then or is double teamed, he passes to a wide open teammate for a jumper. His 7 assists per game are probably the least impressive 7 assists anyone has ever gotten in the league. The cavs offensive "system" is a joke.

+1

Lebron is an amazing player, but if you didn't really watch Bird play then you can't understand the difference. If anyone hasn't watched at least one full game of Bird-Parish-McHale v. Magic-Worthy then just do it. Amazing team offenses.

 

[LittleAlex]

Hated doing it, but repped ya!

Replace Bird with Lebron on those Celtic teams and there is no doubt that they win more games and more championships.

There is a great deal of doubt, frankly. The Celtics of that era were a team that moved the ball almost constantly. In contrast, Cleveland is all about clearing out for LeBron with comparably little player movement.

Though he might well be able to change his game, there is no evidence right now LeBron would thrive in such a system.

The day LeBron tells the papers he is going to average 45 a game during a 5 game west coast road trip, then does so, I might change my mind. But right now Bird was the sickest small forward I have ever seen play.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

I don't get why all of you guys are so in love with players that only play for themselves. watching guys like bird is so much fun because they are so freaking talented, yet listen to their coach and play with their teammates. Instead of the whole team being based on one guy, the teams have a system. So much more fun to watch and so much more impressive. I'd like to see what happened to lebron if he didn't take a shot in 5-6 possessions lol, he'd prolly start pouting and have no idea what to do.

 

[Minstrel]

Bird played at a significantly higher pace, which inflates raw stats. By pace-adjusted stats, Bird was all-time great, but James still eclipses him. Plus James has fashioned himself into a high-level defender, while Bird was average (above average team defense, below average man defense).

James is the second-greatest player I've ever seen, after Jordan, and he's pretty close to Jordan. I think James is the best talent to play the position but he currently doesn't have the career to claim the top spot.

For now, I'd say Bird is #1 and Pippen is #2. But assuming he suffers no injuries, I'd expect James to take the top spot and bump Bird and Pippen down a spot. Elgin Baylor would currently be #3 for me.

 

[huevonkiller]

The problem with James is he dribbles the ball more than any star player I can think of. About half of his shots come towards the end of the clock, compared to 1/3 (or less) for pretty much every other star scorer or facilitator with handling ability. His peak has been met before by a few perimeter players already imo. Ultimately he'll have to have some more playoff seasoning and not pull any Dallas Maverick stuff, maintain his durability and such first.