GREG ODEN: “IS THERE ANY PROOF THAT I’M A BUST?”

[STOMP]

This is the kind of thread that is making me lose hope in this forum.

The Blazers are facing a critical decision on whether or not to extend Oden. Pointing that out is "playing semantic games" and being a "contrarian"????

Have people in this place lost their minds?

no one has demonstrated they are confused over Greg's contract status and that has never been in question in your repeated hammering this trivial point. This started when you chaffed at 2008-9 being referred to as his rookie year insisting that it should be called his 2nd. If any poster has ever expressed confusion over whether he was under contract in 2007-8 or expressed hopes that that missed year would delay the start of his rookie deal please provide a link. Everyone else here was able to simultaneously grasp when his current contract runs and accept that the league referred to 2008-9 as his rookie year. You've continued to point to this minutia as if you're on to something that only you realize.

Taking this to the next level and calling everyone else crazy is just comedy

STOMP

 

[LittleAlex]

hey micky.... was i wrong about kpee, rudy and outlaw?

you guys were building shrines for that moron gm. i was the only one saying he sucked.

This post reminds me of blind squirrels and broken clocks for some reason.

Not sure why.

 

[RipCity]

Being BUSTED is far different than being A BUST. Being BUSTED means you've been injured. Being A BUST means that you perform poorly on the court.

Playing one-years-worth of games over three years definitely qualifies as being BUSTED.

But Oden has not been A BUST while he has been on the court. Far from it. He has played very much like you'd expect a once-in-a-generation center to play (apart from his foul rate). Advanced statistics indicate that when he has been on the court, he has been one of the two best players to enter the league this decade, that he compares favorably to the greatest centers of the last thirty years, and that he compares favorably to the greatest rebounders of all time. This indicates that if he can be relatively injury-free, and get his fouling under control, he just might be that once in a generation center he was hyped to be.

The following summarizes Oden’s performance on the court to date:

* Greg Oden is one of the two best players to come into the NBA in the last ten years according to comprehensive advanced statistics. (Hint: the other is LeBron).
* Greg Oden’s second year advanced stats compare favorably with those of the all-time great centers of the last thirty years: Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem (and Dwight Howard).
* Greg Oden's rookie year rebounding compares well with the rookie years of some of the greatest rebounders of all time.
* Greg Oden’s 2009-2010 advanced statistics compare well with those of three-time NBA all-star, two-time NBA defensive player of the year, three-time all-NBA team member Dwight Howard.
* Greg Oden was ranked higher in more advanced statistical categories last year than NBA scoring leader Kevin Durant, the 1st team all-NBA team player the Trail Blazers could have taken instead.

See http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/9/12/1684146/greg-odens-on-court-performance

Really not sure what "advanced" statistics are, but rest assured, if your comparing Shaq's 23.4 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 3.5 bpg in his Rookie campaign to Greg Oden's 8.9 ppg, 7 rpg, 1.1 bpg, your "advanced" statistics are a fuckin' joke. I won't even bother checking out Robinson or Hakeem's rookie stats, I'm sure they all dominate G.O.'s by a fair margin.

The same thing really can be said for the last statement about Oden being ranked higher in more "advanced" stat categories than Durant. If that is the case, they are an absolute joke.

While I can't say positively that Greg Oden will be a bust throughout his career, I will say that at this point he is a bust and will remain so until he proves otherwise. I would say playing a full season, and averaging at least 10/10/2 would do that. But even at that point, considering the statistics and play of the guy drafted #2 the same year, he'd still be a massive disappointment. Really, he was advertised to be Bill Russel #2, so in my opinion anything short of multiple rings and a franchise defensive big man make him a bust.

 

[blazerboy30]

oldmangrouch's post at least made sense. Shaq being a bust? That was a ridiculous post.

I notice you weren't able to read and comprehend that post. As well as the post where I told you, again, that a player should be judged on their career, thus making Shaq a non-bust. It isn't that hard to grasp, but I see that you are intent on playing the Mixum role.

 

[Denny Crane]

Was Ralph Sampson a bust?

 

[blazerboy30]

This is the kind of thread that is making me lose hope in this forum.

The Blazers are facing a critical decision on whether or not to extend Oden. Pointing that out is "playing semantic games" and being a "contrarian"????

Have people in this place lost their minds?

You are SO far above playing semantic games. Please provide a link to where a poster ever questioned whether this was Oden's contract year.

 

[THE HCP]

You know I've said in the past, I grew up in NE Portland idolizing the Blazers. A hoop junkie growing up here, how could you not? Listened to Schonz on the radio as a kid in the 70's, my parents had BlazerCable in the 80's and the whole neighborhood would come over for games. I now work for them. The fact that I don't bash or complain about every single thing...... I don't think that makes me a homer to be honest. I'm just a life long Blazer fan who keeps it positive. When Joel and Greg went down last season, there was a thread on here asking for predictions on how we'd finish. I said I didn't believe we would even make the playoffs and actually got shit for saying that. I don't understand how I am considered such a homer, I would love to see some examples. I am bias because I am friends with all these people that are being cracked on, but I don't think I've ever actually gone overboard on the whole homer thing.

 

[e_blazer]

It cracks me up that being labeled a "homer" is about the biggest insult thrown around this place. Given that we're all supposedly Blazers fans, you'd think that we'd have a tendency to, you know, actually want to support our team. I know that doesn't mean wearing rose-colored glasses and blowing sunshine about everything related to the Blazers, but you'd think it would mean having a generally positive mindset about the team. Seems to me that some of you are so damned afraid of being called a homer that you go out of your way to promote a pessimistic point of view about most of our players, coaches and management.

I love the Blazers. I've followed the team since Day 1. I've attended one championship parade. I've suffered through some tough seasons. I'm always in favor of looking for ways to improve the team, but as long as a guy is wearing a Blazers uniform and is working his tail off to do what it takes to win, I'm going to support him. If you want to call me a homer for that, I'll happily accept the label.

 

[Hype #9]

You know I've said in the past, I grew up in NE Portland idolizing the Blazers. A hoop junkie growing up here, how could you not? Listened to Schonz on the radio as a kid in the 70's, my parents had BlazerCable in the 80's and the whole neighborhood would come over for games. I now work for them. The fact that I don't bash or complain about every single thing...... I don't think that makes me a homer to be honest. I'm just a life long Blazer fan who keeps it positive. When Joel and Greg went down last season, there was a thread on here asking for predictions on how we'd finish. I said I didn't believe we would even make the playoffs and actually got shit for saying that. I don't understand how I am considered such a homer, I would love to see some examples. I am bias because I am friends with all these people that are being cracked on, but I don't think I've ever actually gone overboard on the whole homer thing.

You don't have to justify your opinions to anyone, especially to Mixum.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

The internet has pretty much made enjoying ANYTHING impossible, because of constant accusations of homerism and fanboyism for showing the least amount of enthusiasm, optimism, or joy at something. It's fucking stupid being given grief because you're not cynical enough or negative enough to be "cool on the internet". Fuck that noise.

 

[BGrantFan]

I notice you weren't able to read and comprehend that post. As well as the post where I told you, again, that a player should be judged on their career, thus making Shaq a non-bust. It isn't that hard to grasp, but I see that you are intent on playing the Mixum role.

Frankly, it was such a preposterous tangent, I lost interest in the post. I'm sorry I missed the brilliance of your reasoning. Based on his career thus far, it's reasonable to conclude that Oden is a bust at this point. It is also reasonable to conclude that he has not been a bust to this point, and that he's been injured. My view is the latter.

 

[mook]

Am I the only one who finds the whole "HCP-ing!" MIXUM thing a personal attack on the guy? I thought the idea was to attack the post, not the poster.

I don't really care one way or another about most MIXUM's antics. But if the mods want my opinion, they should be editing out that line every time they see it. Just like they should strike it out if MIXUM's handle is used as a derogatory stereotype.

I realize the environ here is purposefully more lax than other boards, which is great. But this style of attack is only going to devolve into worse and worse name-calling, which is no good for the board.

 

[BGrantFan]

I want things to be exactly how I want them to be. People who post differently or hold a different opinion than me make this board hard to visit.

Hold me.

 

[blazerboy30]

I want things to be exactly how I want them to be. People who post differently or hold a different opinion than me make this board hard to visit.

Hold me.

You left once before because you couldn't handle things here. Was your post sarcastic or an honest review of your previous actions?

 

[STOMP]

You are SO far above playing semantic games. Please provide a link to where a poster ever questioned whether this was Oden's contract year.

if anyone really is confused about a player's contractual status, S2 has a link in the header of every page entitled NBA Salaries

STOMP

 

[BGrantFan]

You left once before because you couldn't handle things here. Was your post sarcastic or an honest review of your previous actions?

What are you blathering on about now?

 

[blazerboy30]

What are you blathering on about now?

Oh, nothing important. Just how you couldn't handle this extremely intense online forum and started whining, disabling your account and coming back with a different user name. And then tried to make it look like it is the other posters can't handle differing opinions.

No big deal.

 

[BGrantFan]

Oh, nothing important. Just how you couldn't handle this extremely intense online forum and started whining, disabling your account and coming back with a different user name. And then tried to make it look like it is the other posters can't handle differing opinions.

No big deal.

Um, OK. Feel better now? Glad you got that off of your chest.

Anyhoo, back to stupid roundy-rounds, with some red herrings sprinkled in, discussing the crucial topic of "to bust" or "not to bust".

 

[BrianFromWA]

I think I'd fall into the category that says the term "bust" shouldn't (not can't or shan't) be used until either the career is over or there's been significant sample size to show the player didn't meet expectations for his career. Which is extremely subjective and seems open to things like faddish contrarianism, groupthink and reliance on memes as fact.

Example: Danny Ferry, Rik Smits, Armon Gilliam, Len Bias, Wayman Tisdale, Steve Stipanovich, Terry Cummings, Isiah Thomas, Darrell Griffith. What do these players have in common? They all were selected at the same pick in the 80's as Sam Bowie. But b/c he was selected before the GOAT, a 10yr career 11/8, 15PER center is considered one of the all-time busts while no one considers that his career is comparable to most on that list (aside from Isiah) and significantly better than many.

Since Oden's been caught up in this meme of Bowie comparisons (and b/c of the Durant/Jordan comps), he's been conveniently labeled a bust by detractors since his first microfracture surgery. Oct 27, 2007 and Feb 2009 were major mentions that I found at Oregonian and Bleacher Report. Jaynes jumped in in March 2009. Hoops Doctors said it in July 2009.

Compare that to, say, Blake Griffin. Bleacher Report asked the question in Jan 2010, said that you can't judge immediately a whole career, and then named Oden and Bowie 2 of the 10 biggest "busts" all-time, along with players like Washburn, O'Bannon, Darko, Skita, Candyman, Big Country and Jonathan Bender(?).

Or compare to Hasheem Thabeet, who was labeled a bust right after summer league.

My conclusion is that for players outside of Portland, who don't get compared to Bowie, injuries in your first few seasons don't make you a bust. Poor play immediately can, but I don't think anyone's saying that Oden's play is poor enough to call him a bust. That's the realm that guys like Patrick O'Bryant, Joe Alexander, Karolev, AmMo, Saer Sene, Acie Law, Thabeet, etc. live in. Then there's the "long-term sucktitude" realm of bust where players are generally healthy, below-average, semi-useful, and never live up to their draft rating. I'd place guys like Darko, CandyMan, Yi, Sean May in that realm. Then there's the guys derailed by long-term or career-impacting injuries like Penny, Livingston, Dunleavy, etc go. Maybe the last one is where Greg is destined for (I personally am thinking "no", but you could make a case), but he's definitely nowhere close to any of those others. If Indiana or Boston or NYK or Seattle would've drafted Greg, he'd be an high-potential player with injury issues (much like Bynum or Griffin). In Portland, he's Bowie Reincarnate (which is ridiculous anyway) and who's only remembered b/c of who he was drafted in front of.

 

[DaRizzle]

Come in here for the first time in months and make a broad generalizations. I've got in plenty of good pissing matches with fans about the team in the past month. The problem with Mixum is he rarely backs up statements with facts and never answers questions, because a lot of the time he has nothing to supports his baseless claims.

Really...because Ive made 2 posts in 2 months I suddenly dont know the norm around here? riiiiiiight....

Mixum is far more right than he is wrong....sure he sticks his neck out on predictions/analysis but at least he has the balls to do so.

He has been spot on on his opinions of the players....who cares if he said the Blazers wouldnt make the playoffs 2 years ago and they did...he was only off by a couple games over an 82 game season so thats accurate enough for me.

People here just think its in fashion to bash MIXUM regardless of his actual points....there are some lemmings around here

 

[MIXUM]

thats how it is on these boards... lots of followers who have no guts to post their real thoughts. flavor of the month comes to mind.

that is why guys like rizzle, kingspeed, nik, bgrantfan stand out. THEY SPEAK THEIR MIND AND DONT WORRY ABOUT GETTING KICKED OUT OF THE KOOL AID CLUB (brought to you by HCP)

and so far since im back... the best part is the posters who nobody on here ever heard of in their life taking shots. Its like a lil pee wee shouting something out yet nobody pays attention. Where the hell are these guys coming from?

 

[BrianFromWA]

we had a big recruiting drive this summer. No need to fear the post-count-challenged...they'll have them beefed up in no time, I'm sure (especially if they use the tried-and-true "pad my post count thread" tool). And then they'll be worthy to post how they like their kool-aid, thank you very much.

 

[blazedanugz]

MIXUM i want to play you one on one so i can shit on you

 

[HailBlazers]

sure he sticks his neck out on predictions/analysis but at least he has the balls to do so.

Oh yea it takes a lot of balls to troll around anonymously on the internet. Come on Faker, Tricks are for Kids

 

[BGrantFan]

Oh yea it takes a lot of balls to troll around anonymously on the internet. Come on Faker, Tricks are for Kids

You sure about that? I remember maxiep (maybe more than him, be he stood out because of the frequency) posting MIXUM's hometown and address on this board on more than one occasion. That's not exactly being "anonymous", is it? Didn't somebody also call his place of work?

 

[MIXUM]

dr hailblazer will diagnose you now darizzle

 

[Jayps15]

The 'who are these noobs talking to me' is straight from the HCP playbook.

 

[MIXUM]

yes jay you qualify

 

[blazerboy30]

Mixum is far more right than he is wrong....sure he sticks his neck out on predictions/analysis but at least he has the balls to do so.

You've gotta be kidding. Provide some links where Mixum has been right on a non-obvious prediction.

He has been spot on on his opinions of the players....who cares if he said the Blazers wouldnt make the playoffs 2 years ago and they did...he was only off by a couple games over an 82 game season so thats accurate enough for me.

Please. Those "couple of games" are all that matter in all of sports. Predicting the Lakers wouldn't win the Championship and then being wrong isn't just being "off by a couple of games".

 

[Jayps15]

yes jay you qualify

So my post count isn't big enough to have an opinion and point out the flaws in your reasoning?

Quality over quantity comes to mind