Greg's Fault

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rocketeer said:
oden just needs to worry about playing his game.i
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What is "his game"? I'm pretty sure Greg doesn't know. Not sure his teammates do either. Hitting both free throws would have been HUGE for his confidence and his bonding with his teammates. Sucks that he couldn't at least make one.
 
Shooter said:
I don't like what I see from Aldridge so far. He seems to be very loosey-goosey, not at all serious, and content to just chuck up jump shots. If he doesn't watch it, he's going to turn into Rashweed Wallace.
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LMA is loosey-goosey. That is his thing. When I would follow the team on the road, I would be devastated by a loss and he'd come out from the locker room after smiling and in a good mood. I think this is actually good though. The guy is never down. In a tight game, he's always smiling, having fun. I think this keeps him level and makes him valuable in tough situations when we're all at home going crazy. If only, Oden were like that.
 
KingSpeed said:
What is "his game"? I'm pretty sure Greg doesn't know. Not sure his teammates do either. Hitting both free throws would have been HUGE for his confidence and his bonding with his teammates. Sucks that he couldn't at least make one.
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Hell, even hitting one of them would have been huge in terms of confidence. Saturday suddenly becomes a pivotal game for Oden. I do wonder what the "run the offense through Oden" crowd is thinking right now.
 
maxiep said:
We shot 34.6%. That won't win you a game against one of the league's best teams. This loss falls on the team, not on one player.
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Great teams can shoot 35% from the field and still find a way to win. And we would've done that if Oden had merely knocked down two free throws.
 
Tince said:
This is the classic arm-chair quarterback situation.

If Nate goes to LMA or Rudy and they miss. Everyone on here is mad that we didn't go to our best player who has won us a handful of games in the last seconds over the past two season.

If Nate goes to his best player at the end (which almost all coaches do), and Roy misses, he's an idiot for not going to someone else.

I liked the idea of having Greg on the floor because he is by far our best offensive rebound and made the Nuggets keep their biggest defender glued to him and unable to help out.
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I'm only guessing of course - but what kind of chair are you sitting in? Like everyone here, we are all arm-chair quarterbacks....at least any of us who care to post an opinion!

I never have a problem if Roy misses a shot! I just can't figure why we had Miller (can't shoot); Oden (can't shoot); with (clearly from my chair) the only real play was "Roy-on-5" - with his only outlet being a dump into a crowded lane to an inept Oden?

Pryz can rebound? For purposes of an offensive set with 10 seconds to play - I might rather had seen Pryz "keeping the Nuggets biggest defender glued to him...." In fact, you tell me: If you were coach Karl, would you tell your boys to worry about the ball going into Oden? Worry about Miller?

What might Karl have told his players had Pryz, Roy, Rudy, Blake, Webster and Outlaw all on the floor for that play?
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
2. Oden should NOT have been on the court; a) he doesn't take the ball up strong - often getting the ball slapped out of his hands when he does so in a crowd; b) he's (currently) a defensive stopper - not an offensive threat; c) if he were to be fouled (as he was, barely) he hasn't taken but two or three shots all night - so how can one expect him to walk up calmly and nail two free throws? Oden too knows that he's a 63% FT shooter, no?

Just wrong time to have Greg on the floor. He could have been put back into the game for defense - but he should not have been in the game for this posession.
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oden is the best offensive rebounder on the team and may be the best offensive rebounder in the entire league. down by one taking a close to last second shot, oden absolutely has to be on the floor in case the shot misses.
 
KingSpeed said:
What is "his game"? I'm pretty sure Greg doesn't know. Not sure his teammates do either. Hitting both free throws would have been HUGE for his confidence and his bonding with his teammates. Sucks that he couldn't at least make one.
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yeah, it does suck but shit happens. plenty of great players have missed huge free throws down the stretch.
 
PapaG said:
Hell, even hitting one of them would have been huge in terms of confidence. Saturday suddenly becomes a pivotal game for Oden. I do wonder what the "run the offense through Oden" crowd is thinking right now.
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I'm thinking that the people advocating for more Greg involvement in offense are laughing that some people are still misunderstanding their argument.
 
rocketeer said:
yeah, it does suck but shit happens. plenty of great players have missed huge free throws down the stretch.
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Lots of bad players have also missed FTs down the stretch. Not saying Oden is a bad player, but I'm just pointing it out.
 
The Sebastian Express said:
I'm thinking that the people advocating for more Greg involvement in offense are laughing that some people are still misunderstanding their argument.
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I want to understand it better, because I may have it mis-characterized in my head. What's the basics of the argument?
 
PapaG said:
Lots of bad players have also missed FTs down the stretch. Not saying Oden is a bad player, but I'm just pointing it out.
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Ah, but... usually, the bad players aren't in down the stretch. See Lawson vs. Rudy.

This whole thing reminds me of Buck Williams missing a FT with no time remaining against Seattle that deprived us of a win against a division rival.
 
PapaG said:
So, what's the argument?
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how many times have you seen them run a pick and roll with oden? how many times do you see oden with what appears to be great position but he gets ignored? it seems like the blazers miss most of the good high percentage opportunities that oden has and instead dump him the ball in the post not in great position against a set defense.
 
rocketeer said:
how many times have you seen them run a pick and roll with oden? how many times do you see oden with what appears to be great position but he gets ignored? it seems like the blazers miss most of the good high percentage opportunities that oden has and instead dump him the ball in the post not in great position against a set defense.
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Look at rocketeer saying it so when I get back I don't have to do so! Thank you sir.
 
rocketeer said:
how many times have you seen them run a pick and roll with oden? how many times do you see oden with what appears to be great position but he gets ignored? it seems like the blazers miss most of the good high percentage opportunities that oden has and instead dump him the ball in the post not in great position against a set defense.
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Yeah, a player like Oden could really feed off that kind of attention. Hell, i remember in 2004, when we had Blake the first time, Przybilla and he would play that game, and Joel had a couple of 18-point nights. It certainly can be done if you know to look for the big man while you're rolling.

However, I notice that Oden's really bad at setting picks, and our guards aren't patient enough to wait for him to get set. He's just not quick enough to catch a defender off guard and set a pick. Without that, the spacing isn't right to get a good roll off the pick. And usually, Oden's setting picks for Roy, and when Roy drives, he's not always going to consider Oden trailing behind when he has an and-1 in his mind's eye.

But, given time and proper spacing, I can see this pick-and-roll relationship develop. It's a long season, and a level of trust has to be established. I'm not concerned yet.
 
rocketeer said:
oden is the best offensive rebounder on the team and may be the best offensive rebounder in the entire league. down by one taking a close to last second shot, oden absolutely has to be on the floor in case the shot misses.
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A great offensive rebounder versus a great offensive scorer remains two different qualities. I'm only speaking of two issues:

Noting, we had 10 seconds;

The play: Roy-on-5 do we all agree this was the case?

Oden: 63% foul shooter / low confidence / even if he were to have grabbed a rebound, what are the odds of a put-back? Did he get any put-backs all night? He did have (1) on Tuesday night!

Pryzbilla: Experienced in similar scenarios.

Miller: Can't shoot (but Webster, Blake, Travis, Rudy....all can hit an outside jumper)


Noting we had 1.9 seconds left, down by 3:

Did ANYONE in the building think it was / could go to anyone else besides Roy? Did we insert our group of 3-point shooters to even cause Denver to "guess?"


Final thought:

JVG
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
Oden: 63% foul shooter / low confidence / even if he were to have grabbed a rebound, what are the odds of a put-back? Did he get any put-backs all night? He did have (1) on Tuesday night!
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the odds of oden getting a rebound on a missed shot were much higher than any other blazer getting a rebound on a missed shot. that's why he was in the game. if roy missed, oden is the best guy on the team to get a 2nd chance. i can't see why you would want anyone else on the court in his place since it was just a 1 point game.
 
I don't think Greg should be the focal point on the offense, and I don't think he should be the second option either. I do think however that our team continuing to pretty much ignore the pick and roll option with both Greg and Joel, and in addition to staring down Greg and ignoring him when he is wide open in the post or has superb positioning is criminal. Those are easy buckets right there folks, points in the paint that have a great opportunity to force the other team's big men to foul and get us to the line. This opens up things so much for Roy to drive the paint once the other team has endured some foul trouble and either put them in the penalty himself, or reap the rewards of already being in the penalty.

Another key is when he does have good positioning in the post against a set defense is that we must pass it to him in a better spot, and he in turn must hold onto the ball tighter when he makes his move. I understand frustrations when Greg gets a little energetic and sloppy, but that's part of his growing process. I'm not saying force feed it to him in this scenario 15 times a game, but I'm saying a few times a game would be nice IN ADDITION to pick and rolls.

Joel used to do the pick and roll pretty darn good despite his stone hands when Damon was here and it made him at least have to be accounted for on offense. This option virtually disappeared when Nate arrived to the team, and that either says that Nate has been horrible at using this play or every guard we've had after Damon is absolutely atrocious at running the pick and roll which is bad news for us on one of two fronts:

1. Nate can't teach them to do it.
2. They just can't do it at all.

which will be horrible for us in any championship aspirations.
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
A great offensive rebounder versus a great offensive scorer remains two different qualities. I'm only speaking of two issues:

Noting, we had 10 seconds;

The play: Roy-on-5 do we all agree this was the case?

Oden: 63% foul shooter / low confidence / even if he were to have grabbed a rebound, what are the odds of a put-back? Did he get any put-backs all night? He did have (1) on Tuesday night!

Pryzbilla: Experienced in similar scenarios.

Miller: Can't shoot (but Webster, Blake, Travis, Rudy....all can hit an outside jumper)


Noting we had 1.9 seconds left, down by 3:

Did ANYONE in the building think it was / could go to anyone else besides Roy? Did we insert our group of 3-point shooters to even cause Denver to "guess?"


Final thought:

JVG
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Greg was in to set a screen on the last play, and he did a hell of a good job. Billups was so far behind Roy, he was spiriting to adjust his shot. Roy had more time than he thought and could have pump faked, gathered his feet, and got a clean look.

On the play before, having the best offensive rebounded in the league in makes even more sense if you're going 1 on 5. We a player like Roy blows by his defender, it forces someone else to setup and the entire defense to rotate. During those rotations, a guy like Greg will be left to get unbelievable rebounding position in case Roy misses.
 
Tince said:
Greg was in to set a screen on the last play, and he did a hell of a good job. Billups was so far behind Roy, he was spiriting to adjust his shot. Roy had more time than he thought and could have pump faked, gathered his feet, and got a clean look.

I agree on this one.

On the play before, having the best offensive rebounded in the league in makes even more sense if you're going 1 on 5. We a player like Roy blows by his defender, it forces someone else to setup and the entire defense to rotate. During those rotations, a guy like Greg will be left to get unbelievable rebounding position in case Roy misses.
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I may have had Pryzbilla over Oden; much more experience; although not a great FT shooter, I think Pryz would have made one of the two.

"Experience" is perhaps the key to my feelings. What did Oden do after grabbing the rebound (as he was being fouled 24 inches away from the bucket)? He immediately went to kick it out to Rudy - rather than making a move to take it straight to the hole. "Experience" is perhaps key when considering the "what if my big does get a rebound and gets fouled - will he make the free throws?" Pryz has MUCH more experience in these scenarios.

IF we want to win games first, and learn from the experience of playing them, second: Pryz should have been on the floor over Oden during these offensive sets - and brought in for Defense.

Only my opinion! I appreciate your opinions too! :cheers:
 
KingSpeed said:
Great teams can shoot 35% from the field and still find a way to win. And we would've done that if Oden had merely knocked down two free throws.
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Thank you for your opinion. I don't share it. You go ahead and blame it on two free throws; I'll look at the whole game.
 
KingSpeed said:
A 63% shooter should make one and send the game to OT.
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A 44.6% field goal shooter (as Outlaw is) should make more than 1 shot in 8 attempts. Yet he didn't.

A 63% free throw shooter has a 21% chance of missing both free throws. It sucks, but it happens.

Oden's misses were just one part of the mistakes the team made, and those mistakes collectively cost the team the game.
 
His coach has told the world that they don't need him to score. He has made it clear that Greg is in there to rebound and play defense. So instead, our best player throws him a pass in a clogged up lane with seconds left.

Yes, this is all Greg's fault :confused:
 
sjla2kology101 said:
this will be forgotten in a week.
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Yeah, just like when Blake missed 4/5 FT's in the final minute against the Clippers early last season. That was long forgotten within a few days. Errrrr, not that much.
 
Mediocre Man said:
His coach has told the world that they don't need him to score. He has made it clear that Greg is in there to rebound and play defense. So instead, our best player throws him a pass in a clogged up lane with seconds left.

Yes, this is all Greg's fault :confused:
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I didn't like that decision by Brandon at all. I guess it's just one of those early season mistakes that we probably won't see him make again. He gets the ball and dribbles right and he should have just gone up. Instead he pump faked, which gave Bird Man & Billips time to close in on him and that's why he had to give the ball up. Why did he pump fake? He had space before the fake to get a good shot off. He blew it. Instead, he throws to Oden with 2 guys on his back and 5 seconds left. Literally, the last place you want to go in that situation. Yeah, I was frustrated when Greg clanked them both but he should have never been there.

Roy has won enough games for this team that he gets a hall pass for this - no doubt. None the less I can't help but notice he isn't the same B-Roy as we watched all last year. Carmello was in mid-season form. Roy looks . . . "off". Through the preseason, and the first 2 reg. season games he's had about 2 good quarters. Of his 50 points so far this year, 26 have been on FT's. He's not finishing at the basket, he doesn't look as fluid. He just looks like he didn't do much this summer, which is disappointing.
 
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