Greg's minutes

[Natebishop3]

I have been stressing these same points for a while now. Oden must become a large part of our offense, if this doesn't happen then we don't have any real shot at becoming a championship team in the future. I think Pritchard sees what Nate is turning Oden into. The problem is, our roster is bailing Nate out with poor coaching but fantastic talent. If this continues, Nate will be fired. It's absolutely mind boggling that last game he had 3 shots, and this game he had 2. If your theory was that Greg is just as raw offensively as Mutumbo, and he isn't, Dikembe still got a whole lot of touches on the offensive end compared to Greg Oden. It's sickening and I feel really bad for Greg right now, he should be pissed.

We need a new coach. Period.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

We need a new coach. Period.

Realistically, I don't think we do something until after the season unfortunately. Who could we acquire? I would love Adelman but I think he's staying put. Larry Brown is an option we should look at, he's someone we COULD get if we wanted to. Just don't let him be GM.

 

[ucatchtrout]

This philosophy is fucked!! Who gives a donkey nipple if the teams makes the playoffs and we lose a year of Greg becoming the man in process? Greg must not get lost so we can make the playoffs. This time is massively important in his development as a player of impact. 99% of that is letting him play through the learning curve of the NBA! If he ends his first year scoring 8ppg and 8 boards, I for one think his confidence may be permanently screwed! Short term succes VS long term dominace, whay would you pick?

damn right..... othewise... "developing" may just mean we are turning him into the next Kwame Brown.

 

[PapaG]

Oden being raw, unpolished, and a walking foul is Nate's fault?

I knew early on that this was another "bash Nate" thread.

How about this? Nate has the team 5th in the West with the "franchise" center being schooled by the likes of Brook Lopez.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

This may sound odd but what about Pat Riley! The knock on him was he overplayed his starting five in Miami. That said, by next year our team starting unit will be in place and Riley knows how to win with a big man. Thoughts?

 

[Tortimer]

There is no excuse for Oden to only play 13 minutes last night. I want the Blazers to make the playoffs really bad but if this team is going to be good for the next 10 years Oden will have to live up to the hype. I think we could have won the game even with Oden out there for at least 25 minutes. Nate needs to teach Oden to play the pick and roll if he doesn't like it. I'm so pissed at Nate for last night with Oden's minutes I doubt I can overcome it unless Nate changes his coaching of Oden soon.

 

[PapaG]

There is no excuse for Oden to only play 13 minutes last night. I want the Blazers to make the playoffs really bad but if this team is going to be good for the next 10 years Oden will have to live up to the hype. I think we could have won the game even with Oden out there for at least 25 minutes. Nate needs to teach Oden to play the pick and roll if he doesn't like it. I'm so pissed at Nate for last night with Oden's minutes I doubt I can overcome it unless Nate changes his coaching of Oden soon.

Really? He was suddenly going to figure out how to defend the pick and roll?

I know the team won a back-to-back game last night with Oden playing 13 ineffective minutes. I think the team would have not won the game had Oden played 25 hypothetical minutes.

 

[PapaG]

There is no excuse for Oden to only play 13 minutes last night.

Sure there is. He wasn't playing well and was the weak link on the floor.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Bash Nate? Yes!!!!!! Greg Oden was the #1 draft pick and thought to be the next coming of Bill R. He's sitting the bench while guys like Lopez are putting up huge #'s cause Nate can't figure out how to get him the ball on an intro pass!!! Holy Shit, if he doesn't see the ball and no plays are called for him, who should we be discussing here? The popcorn vendor?

The Kwame Brown comparison is dead on if we don't get him involved and in a hurry! I don't give one shit about the first round of the playoffs and out! No real Blazer fan should. This is not a team for today, but two years away. If that means we drop 10 games in a row while Greg gets confident, so be it! It pays off in the long run and far more than any little playoff stand this year could produce.

I still think if we pound the ball into Greg till he fouls out every game, his confidence explodes and our whole teams night becomes so much easier!

 

[Natebishop3]

Oden being raw, unpolished, and a walking foul is Nate's fault?

I knew early on that this was another "bash Nate" thread.

How about this? Nate has the team 5th in the West with the "franchise" center being schooled by the likes of Brook Lopez.

And if you can't see that we're misusing Oden, then you clearly know very little about basketball.

 

[Minstrel]

Realistically, I don't think we do something until after the season unfortunately. Who could we acquire? I would love Adelman but I think he's staying put.

Adelman has been my ideal coach (outside of Phil Jackson, whom I doubt will ever coach a team other than the Lakers again) for a couple of years. I don't think he's a lock to remain in Houston. If the Yao/McGrady/Artest troika had worked and they were poised to be title contenders for a few years, I think he'd be unavailable...but that situation looks pretty messy. Is Adelman under contract beyond this year?

 

[PapaG]

Bash Nate? Yes!!!!!! Greg Oden was the #1 draft pick and thought to be the next coming of Bill R. He's sitting the bench while guys like Lopez are putting up huge #'s cause Nate can't figure out how to get him the ball on an intro pass!!! Holy Shit, if he doesn't see the ball and no plays are called for him, who should we be discussing here? The popcorn vendor?

The Kwame Brown comparison is dead on if we don't get him involved and in a hurry! I don't give one shit about the first round of the playoffs and out! No real Blazer fan should. This is not a team for today, but two years away. If that means we drop 10 games in a row while Greg gets confident, so be it! It pays off in the long run and far more than any little playoff stand this year could produce.

I still think if we pound the ball into Greg till he fouls out every game, his confidence explodes and our whole teams night becomes so much easier!

You keep posting this, yet I see games where Oden is consistently getting the ball in the post and is effective. Typically against a much smaller player, but then again, that's a mismatch and should be exploited, which Nate is doing when Oden is a plus on the offensive end.

You REALLY want to basically tell the team that the play-offs are secondary, and that Oden will be force-fed the ball no matter how unready he is to contribute on a nightly basis? Hell, Oden would likely think that to be a ridiculous way to approach his development, and the tight locker room would have a gigantic elephant sitting in it. If I was on a team that didn't want to win when I was ready to end a culture of losing, I'd be gone after my rookie deal.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

And if you can't see that we're misusing Oden, then you clearly know very little about basketball.

Well he's openly admitted to not watching the games and criticizing Oden based on boxscores and just listening to the radio, so this shouldn't come as some surprise.

I imagine Pritchard will not tolerate Nate misusing Oden for long. Pritchard will not let himself be subjected to "lawl Portland sam bowied it again" (even though that is not true at all) just because Nate has no idea how to use a legit center - especially one that is the key to winning championships.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

He has got to learn!!!! Kobe missed shot after game winning shot his first year and that gave him the confidence to shoot today. Do you think it didn't hurt Greg's confidence last night watching Lopez score 20 while he's on the bench for the entire second half? Bayless still would have score and Roy still would have taken it to the rim.

How it looks to me is that Nate has given up on Greg as a go to guy, not smart for a young franchise player to get in his head.

 

[PapaG]

Adelman has been my ideal coach (outside of Phil Jackson, whom I doubt will ever coach a team other than the Lakers again) for a couple of years. I don't think he's a lock to remain in Houston. If the Yao/McGrady/Artest troika had worked and they were poised to be title contenders for a few years, I think he'd be unavailable...but that situation looks pretty messy. Is Adelman under contract beyond this year?

Which dominant post player has Adelman developed into a tier-one All-Star? Yao doesn't count because he was effective a long time prior to Adelman going to Houston.

 

[Ed O]

13 minutes. Two shots.

Ridiculous.

He drew two straight fouls against Nets. Lopez was on the verge of having to sit down with fouls... and do we think that Boone could have kept Oden out of the paint?

Instead, ODEN sits for the rest of the game.

I'm glad that we won, but we won in spite of Oden being on the bench, not because of it.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

And if you can't see that we're misusing Oden, then you clearly know very little about basketball.

Oh, the "you know little about basketball" slur. Comment on Nate having the team 5th in the West, or don't. I don't see why you have to attack me personally, however.

 

[Natebishop3]

If I was on a team that didn't want to win when I was ready to end a culture of losing, I'd be gone after my rookie deal.

How would you do that? Can't exactly circumvent restricted free agency, can you?

 

[Natebishop3]

Oh, the "you know little about basketball" slur. Comment on Nate having the team 5th in the West, or don't. I don't see why you have to attack me personally, however.

What does our standings in the west have to do with our misuse of Oden? Way to sidestep the issue.

 

[PapaG]

Well he's openly admitted to not watching the games and criticizing Oden based on boxscores and just listening to the radio, so this shouldn't come as some surprise.
I imagine Pritchard will not tolerate Nate misusing Oden for long. Pritchard will not let himself be subjected to "lawl Portland sam bowied it again" (even though that is not true at all) just because Nate has no idea how to use a legit center - especially one that is the key to winning championships.

Are you talking about me? WTF? Dissect my opinion, don't just throw out an insult and not contribute anything other than theories about KP and Nate.

If you read the Aldridge article, even Oden admits he is disappointed in how he is playing. That doesn't mean he isn't going to become an All-Star, but it does mean that firing Nate isn't suddenly going to turn Oden into Dwight Howard.

 

[PapaG]

What does our standings in the west have to do with our misuse of Oden? Way to sidestep the question.

I already explained Oden's use. When he is a plus match-up, he is a primary scoring option. I don't think he's being grossly misused, at least to the point of Nate needing to be fired. What my opinion has to do with my knowledge of basketball is puzzling, but usually the people who use that line of insult are out of ammunition, so they just start hurling insults.

Like you did...

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Do I want Nate to tell the team to go through Greg? Um.... when you get the #1 pick in the draft that is franchise player I'd think your team would know the ball is going through him! Every championship team except for the Bulls and Pistons have had great centers. This is a no brainer! That also means you have to let Greg learn and grow his first year and foul out a ton and get a feel for the game. It also means that Roy, LA, Bayless and Batum need to adjust their games in the process so they can be amazing in two years with him. Small sacrifice for a team that's not expected to compete for the finals for another couple years. This team is very, very, young, we have a year to put Greg into place. I think you're looking at this the wrong way... if Nate doesn't develop Greg, Nate is gone!

 

[PapaG]

How would you do that? Can't exactly circumvent restricted free agency, can you?

One could always demand a trade, and if the team takes some of the ridiculous suggestions here to "lose 10 games straight" just so Oden can be the man, I'd want the hell out of Dodge yesterday.

Why poison what is known as a great locker room by forcing the offense through a guy who admittedly isn't ready for that responsibility on a nightly basis?

I understand that I am an object for people's frustrations over Oden's performance, but I'm not sure why me saying it is OK that Oden isn't the primary vehicle for the offense means you and others need to criticize me in a personal manner.

 

[PapaG]

Which dominant post player has Adelman developed into a tier-one All-Star? Yao doesn't count because he was effective a long time prior to Adelman going to Houston.

I'll ask again, since I don't "know basketball" and need somebody who does to answer the question for me.

 

[PapaG]

Do I want Nate to tell the team to go through Greg? Um.... when you get the #1 pick in the draft that is franchise player I'd think your team would know the ball is going through him! Every championship team except for the Bulls and Pistons have had great centers. This is a no brainer! That also means you have to let Greg learn and grow his first year and foul out a ton and get a feel for the game. It also means that Roy, LA, Bayless and Batum need to adjust their games in the process so they can be amazing in two years with him. Small sacrifice for a team that's not expected to compete for the finals for another couple years. This team is very, very, young, we have a year to put Greg into place. I think you're looking at this the wrong way... if Nate doesn't develop Greg, Nate is gone!

What part of 'he's not that guy yet' are people having a hard time understanding? That doesn't mean that he won't become a dominant offensive player, however. Give him time to learn and stop heaping unrealistic expectations on him.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

What does our standings in the west have to do with our misuse of Oden? Way to sidestep the issue.

Our standing in the West really can be credited to Brandon. The amount of times he has willed this team to victory is pretty amazing. Nate looks a better coach for having Brandon because Brandon (and occasionally Travis although this really depends on what kind of day Travis is having) can bail out Nate's jumpshooting lack of movement offense with his ability to ISO so well.

It can also be credited to Utah being decimated by injuries this year (the fact that they are ahead of Dallas and actually in 8th place is a true testament to Sloan's coaching).

But as someone said - without Brandon we're most likely 15-24 instead of 24-15.

Oden must be used properly and developed by the right coach or there are no championships in the future. This is why I believe Nate will not last after this year unless he starts to use Oden properly or he MIB-mindswipes Pritchard.

 

[PapaG]

Our standing in the West really can be credited to Brandon. The amount of times he has willed this team to victory is pretty amazing. Nate looks a better coach for having Brandon because Brandon (and occasionally Travis although this really depends on what kind of day Travis is having) can bail out Nate's jumpshooting lack of movement offense with his ability to ISO so well.

It can also be credited to Utah being decimated by injuries this year (the fact that they are ahead of Dallas and actually in 8th place is a true testament to Sloan's coaching).

But as someone said - without Brandon we're most likely 15-24 instead of 24-15.

Oden must be used properly and developed by the right coach or there are no championships in the future. This is why I believe Nate will not last after this year unless he starts to use Oden properly or he MIB-mindswipes Pritchard.

I keep reading "Oden must be used properly" and such. What is the proper use for Oden? Is Nate going to keep his job if the team is losing while using Oden "properly" (whatever that may be)?

5th in the West with one of the youngest teams in league history and 4 rookies playing in the rotation, two of whom start.

Nate stinks!

 

[Natebishop3]

I already explained Oden's use. When he is a plus match-up, he is a primary scoring option. I don't think he's being grossly misused, at least to the point of Nate needing to be fired. What my opinion has to do with my knowledge of basketball is puzzling, but usually the people who use that line of insult are out of ammunition, so they just start hurling insults.

Like you did...

Oh, you mean like when you took shots at my career? I gotcha. That's the kind of personal insults you are talking about. Noted.

In regards to how you "already explained Oden's use." How many players in the NBA are bigger than Oden? How many of them can keep him out of the paint? And more importantly, how many times have we seen him WIDE OPEN under the basket? That's a knock on our point guards, but that's also a knock on our coaching staff for running an offense that doesn't stress the entry pass into the post when our big men have good position.

You fail to recognize that it's Nate's positioning that is throwing Oden off. How many times have we seen Greg standing at the top of the key or near the three point line, with nobody near him, looking for someone to pass the ball to? That's not because Greg likes to be up there. Nate has done this with Przybilla in the past, and he's doing it with Greg now. Why he would have his center that far away from the paint, I have no idea.

Oden should be allowed to get into the post as quickly as possible, get good positioning, and then receive the ball in a timely manner so he can either pass out of a double team, or back his man down. More often than not it's going to result in a wide open shot for someone else, a point blank shot for Oden, or a foul on the other team.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Okay... How can he learn to be a franchise center in this league if he has no plays run for him? How can he learn the patterns of other centers if he's sitting out halfs of games when healthy? Did you see Howard sitting out halfs his first year? How about Shaq? By pulling him, Nate is slowly killing this kids fire for the game and you can see it on his face!

 

[PapaG]

Oh, you mean like when you took shots at my career? I gotcha. That's the kind of personal insults you are talking about. Noted.
In regards to how you "already explained Oden's use." How many players in the NBA are bigger than Oden? How many of them can keep him out of the paint? And more importantly, how many times have we seen him WIDE OPEN under the basket? That's a knock on our point guards, but that's also a knock on our coaching staff for running an offense that doesn't stress the entry pass into the post when our big men have good position.

You fail to recognize that it's Nate's positioning that is throwing Oden off. How many times have we seen Greg standing at the top of the key or near the three point line, with nobody near him, looking for someone to pass the ball to? That's not because Greg likes to be up there. Nate has done this with Przybilla in the past, and he's doing it with Greg now. Why he would have his center that far away from the paint, I have no idea.

Oden should be allowed to get into the post as quickly as possible, get good positioning, and then receive the ball in a timely manner so he can either pass out of a double team, or back his man down. More often than not it's going to result in a wide open shot for someone else, a point blank shot for Oden, or a foul on the other team.

That was a back and forth conversation that got out of hand in a game thread. You were not a victim, but you clearly carry a grudge.

I don't, so whatever, flame away. If you can't handle someone who doesn't think exactly the same way you do and get upset, perhaps the internet is not the ideal place for you. I offer perfectly legitimate points about where Greg is at in his career, his own words seem to back what I say, yet Nate needs to be fired and replaced with Rick Adelman, who isn't exactly known for his post-first mentality, and who far as I can tell has not worked with the development of a dominant big man.