Gun Control, Mental healthcare, big brother... thread

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Just a side note..this is a serious subject and we'll probably all learn more from each other discussing it in a civil manner if that's possible..msg board rage is a form of mental illness...it's easy to get sucked into..the topic is not us..it's our culture
 
riverman said:
I read an article today where the author was under the opinion that teachers and students should bear arms...this is ridiculous..putting more guns in schools would increase rage in my views. What do you do? Require citizens to wear body armor in public places just in case? There are a lot less mass shootings in countries without armed populations but then you have a place like Britain where the IRA bombed public places. Psychological entrance exams in schools should be part of the process of enrolling in school maybe? Take road rage as an example...I've seen insane cases of road rage in this country that I didn't see overseas. We have an aggressive population..if you get a drivers license through a driving class..they make you see carnage that happens from reckless driving..if you get a gun license you don't have to see what happens if you shoot somebody. I grew up with guns, hunting and when I learned my father gave me one bullet to find dinner. I had to actually hunt. I don't think it would have been good for me to have a machine gun at 12 with endless rounds of ammo. We don't limit the possession of ammo. Without large amounts of ammo, you are limited in the damage you can inflict with a gun. If you look at our history of gun responsibility in the 1800s, there was a lot of gunplay that led to death. Marshall law is not a place I want to see the country heading with armed guards at the movie theater. I don't want to live in fear of the mall or theater or church or school personally. I'm much more afraid of somebody tailgating me on the hiway going 65 while talking on a cell phone, so in many cases, I'll pull over and let the chaos pass. We live in a culture where violence is the most popular form of entertainment
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increase rage?

the problem with comparing to other countries is they dont already have millions if not billions of firearms in homes, and hundreds of thousands of illegal ones in cirminals hands. you cant stop that by banning 10 round magazines or guns period. you would have to go door to door and grab guns to disarm this country and even then, you've only disarmed the honest people who arent hiding them where you aren't looking. (helpful hint, those arent the ones who want to shoot innocent people)

how about 10 teachers opt to conceal carry and take training courses. a kid walks into school with a .45 and starts shooting his class mates. teachers A, B, and C hear gun fire and immediately draw and move towards the sounds of gun fire and screaming. teacher A reaches the cafeteria in the entrance to the shooters rear. as the shooter shoots his 4th victim teacher A puts 3 rounds center mass into the shooter. teachers B and C enter from a different location and clear out the rest of the students, who are now alive because of teacher A's heroics, rather than dead because the police are still 5 minutes out. thats a whole lot of rage filled parents who get to hug their kids that night.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Misdemeanor domestic violence convictions? Sounds unconstitutional to me. I know a guy who held his wife down in Washington state and made her try and get free. When she got free she called the police. There were no witnesses so when the cops came SHE was arrested because he had scratches that bled and she had no visible wounds.

They have to arrest someone at every domestic call they go to so this is what happened.

Luckily the DA talked to her for 5 seconds and dropped all the ridiculous charges.
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Spot on BM5K
 
MARIS61 said:
Not if you're stupid, or in denial maybe.

If your goal is to avoid being a mass shooting victim simply avoid schools, churches, theaters, malls, and sporting events. Anywhere that's been declared gun free.

My sons dog was attacked by a neighbor's dog coming into my fenced yard while my wife held it on a leash. I've been attacked by dogs several times when hiking in the woods. I've been attacked by a dog when riding my bike. People are deliberately poisoned by people they know, people are poisoned by tainted , packaged food they eat at home.

Your argument has not merit at all.
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It's ok to blame the dogs...Sly is OK with insults about dogs
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
increase rage?

the problem with comparing to other countries is they dont already have millions if not billions of firearms in homes, and hundreds of thousands of illegal ones in cirminals hands. you cant stop that by banning 10 round magazines or guns period. you would have to go door to door and grab guns to disarm this country and even then, you've only disarmed the honest people who arent hiding them where you aren't looking. (helpful hint, those arent the ones who want to shoot innocent people)

how about 10 teachers opt to conceal carry and take training courses. a kid walks into school with a .45 and starts shooting his class mates. teachers A, B, and C hear gun fire and immediately draw and move towards the sounds of gun fire and screaming. teacher A reaches the cafeteria in the entrance to the shooters rear. as the shooter shoots his 4th victim teacher A puts 3 rounds center mass into the shooter. teachers B and C enter from a different location and clear out the rest of the students, who are now alive because of teacher A's heroics, rather than dead because the police are still 5 minutes out. thats a whole lot of rage filled parents who get to hug their kids that night.
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Because those teachers are working and the response time will be way to slow to stop most shooters. Like the cop shot filling his gas tank....
 
MARIS61 said:
That is an absurd lie. Armed citizens prevent more crimes than all police forces combined.

http://www.cato.org/guns-and-self-defense

http://gunssavelives.net/incident-map/

http://www.guns.com/category/self-defense/

http://thearmedcitizen.com/
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It's not a lie maris..it's an opposing view. I question the statement you made here but it's ok. You and I have different value systems and process the problem from different directions. As it stands, the system supports yours more than mine
 
riverman said:
If you're working, going to a movie or class or doctor's appointment, you could be armed and not be able to defend yourself..an armed trained policeman was murdered putting gas in his car...being armed doesn't stop senseless killing, never has, never will, Actually being armed opens the possibility of a crazy person overpowering you and getting a weapon they may not be able to get through legal channels
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there are holsters that require specific movements to dislodge the weapon. if you are close enough to someone to get disarmed you've failed. i see what you are saying and ive been listening to that excuse for years. but i'd much rather be in a position to defend myself and others than a defenseless target. I'm asked to guard people because they are in fear of being shot again, but im trained to run and hide in the event of an active shooter. if i get shot in the line of duty trying to defend myself or others, that's what i signed up for, have a cute little ceremony in my honor and move on with your lives. but if you want me to stand there and take the first bullet without being able to return fire, you can kiss my ass.
 
Hobbesarable said:
Many years ago? That area has changed considerably over the last 20 years.
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42 years ago, to be exact. An old fashioned beating just because I was sitting on the wrong park bench.

Nowadays they shoot people there.
 
julius said:
do you know what false equivalences means?

Each one of those things involves doing something that is related to the result. Walking near a dog, being near a dog, eating food at a restaurant, etc..

Going to college, you don't think "oh hey, I sure hope I don't get shot today"
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I know what logic is. You can keep your false equivalency. I know that eating something and dying from food poisoning isn't so much a choice as it is a chance. Unless you eat rotten food on purpose.
 
riverman said:
I read an article today where the author was under the opinion that teachers and students should bear arms...this is ridiculous..putting more guns in schools would increase rage in my views. What do you do? Require citizens to wear body armor in public places just in case? There are a lot less mass shootings in countries without armed populations but then you have a place like Britain where the IRA bombed public places. Psychological entrance exams in schools should be part of the process of enrolling in school maybe? Take road rage as an example...I've seen insane cases of road rage in this country that I didn't see overseas. We have an aggressive population..if you get a drivers license through a driving class..they make you see carnage that happens from reckless driving..if you get a gun license you don't have to see what happens if you shoot somebody. I grew up with guns, hunting and when I learned my father gave me one bullet to find dinner. I had to actually hunt. I don't think it would have been good for me to have a machine gun at 12 with endless rounds of ammo. We don't limit the possession of ammo. Without large amounts of ammo, you are limited in the damage you can inflict with a gun. If you look at our history of gun responsibility in the 1800s, there was a lot of gunplay that led to death. Marshall law is not a place I want to see the country heading with armed guards at the movie theater. I don't want to live in fear of the mall or theater or church or school personally. I'm much more afraid of somebody tailgating me on the hiway going 65 while talking on a cell phone, so in many cases, I'll pull over and let the chaos pass. We live in a culture where violence is the most popular form of entertainment
Click to expand...

Gun control = Marshall law.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Wow, pro gun websites having pro gun articles.

Here's an interesting fact, flat earth websites have articles about the earth being flat.

Shocking, I know.
Click to expand...

hey, Ive been in Kansas. The world is flat.
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
there are holsters that require specific movements to dislodge the weapon. if you are close enough to someone to get disarmed you've failed. i see what you are saying and ive been listening to that excuse for years. but i'd much rather be in a position to defend myself and others than a defenseless target. I'm asked to guard people because they are in fear of being shot again, but im trained to run and hide in the event of an active shooter. if i get shot in the line of duty trying to defend myself or others, that's what i signed up for, have a cute little ceremony in my honor and move on with your lives. but if you want me to stand there and take the first bullet without being able to return fire, you can kiss my ass.
Click to expand...
 
MARIS61 said:
42 years ago, to be exact. An old fashioned beating just because I was sitting on the wrong park bench.

Nowadays they shoot people there.
Click to expand...

actually, no they don't. but keep up the narrative! scary lloyd center! (gosh, i wonder why you think lloyd center is dangerous..and if it's because of one event 42(!!) years ago..wow.
 
riverman said:
Because those teachers are working and the response time will be way to slow to stop most shooters. Like the cop shot filling his gas tank....
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no one can stop it before it starts unless you talk mental health help. thats like the nurse looking at me wondering why i didnt stop the guy punching the wall down the hallway from me. um, it already happened. i can go figure out whats wrong and try to calm him, but shit already happened, i cant stop the past. if someone starts shooting up a school there are going to be victims, but the trained teachers would have a faster response time and save more lives in the process. just like a few years ago when they guy pulled out his gun in that mall in oregon and before he could mass kill everyone he saw a conceal carry citizen aiming at him, he ran away and killed himself rather than the people in the mall. had they waited for police there would have been many more victims.

http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2014/07/24/12405148/
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
no one can stop it before it starts unless you talk mental health help. thats like the nurse looking at me wondering why i didnt stop the guy punching the wall down the hallway from me. um, it already happened. i can go figure out whats wrong and try to calm him, but shit already happened, i cant stop the past. if someone starts shooting up a school there are going to be victims, but the trained teachers would have a faster response time and save more lives in the process. just like a few years ago when they guy pulled out his gun in that mall in oregon and before he could mass kill everyone he saw a conceal carry citizen aiming at him, he ran away and killed himself rather than the people in the mall. had they waited for police there would have been many more victims.

http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2014/07/24/12405148/
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I believe Aikido practitioners can defuse threats in conjunction more efficiently than adding more bullets to a classroom. None of the scenarios in these situations are ever ideal.
 
riverman said:
Actually being armed opens the possibility of a crazy person overpowering you and getting a weapon
Click to expand...

Oh Geez! Come on River, you are thinking like a Creek! While it is possible, it is a ridiculous reason to not have the means to defend yourself and those that depend on you for defense.
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
no one can stop it before it starts unless you talk mental health help. thats like the nurse looking at me wondering why i didnt stop the guy punching the wall down the hallway from me. um, it already happened. i can go figure out whats wrong and try to calm him, but shit already happened, i cant stop the past. if someone starts shooting up a school there are going to be victims, but the trained teachers would have a faster response time and save more lives in the process. just like a few years ago when they guy pulled out his gun in that mall in oregon and before he could mass kill everyone he saw a conceal carry citizen aiming at him, he ran away and killed himself rather than the people in the mall. had they waited for police there would have been many more victims.

http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2014/07/24/12405148/
Click to expand...

You may as well hire mercenaries and ask them to teach.
 
MarAzul said:
Oh Geez! Come on River, you are thinking like a Creek! While it is possible, it is a ridiculous reason to not have the means to defend yourself and those that depend on you for defense.
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I'm defining defense by a group against an individual in an alternative to adding more weapons to the mix. I get the rational from pro gun practitioners..I've been one myself, I've changed over the years....and if I'm a creek, it's because we're in a draught
 
My last school job of 15 years we had panic buttons under the teacher's desk that were for SWAT team response..never had to use it thankfully but I have taken knives from folks 3 times
 
riverman said:
Click to expand...

thats cute if you're being robbed by some idiot thug but a trained officer would not hold you at gun point that close. you would be in a green zone aka more than 1 move to contact. you would wait for back up to subdue. if an aggressive move is made toward you you have to fire.
 
Hobbesarable said:
You may as well hire mercenaries and ask them to teach.
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thats why i said offer teachers a bonus if they are willing to train. its completely optional and if they choose to take on the responsibility they are compensated. even if only a handful opted in, people now have to consider their teachers may be armed, so maybe the school isnt the best place for them to shoot at defensless targets
 
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