Gun Control, Mental healthcare, big brother... thread

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dviss1 said:
You guys are clamoring for more attention to mental health and are against having psych evals for firearm purchases?

So you aren't for mental health....
Click to expand...


Which pro-gun advocate in here has said they would not want psych evals for firearms purchases?
 
dviss1 said:
I know exactly what you're talking about. You're blaming women for "staying in abusive relationships" to deflect against the fact that they are 12x more likely to be killed in domestic violence situation.

AND there's no such thing as PC it's called respect...
Click to expand...

Should they not take at least some responsibility for themselves?
 
The Second Amendment is the most abused document in history next the the Bible and the Koran. All three say whatever the person reading them want them to say. What the Second Amendment says to me is that it was written in colonial times by individuals who wanted to form a fairly loose legal framework for a confederation of states to operate under together. They had no desire to create and fund a standing army (and barely a navy). So they gave men (not women, so, as I read it, any women who carry guns today are doing so unconstitutionally) the right to bear arms in a well regulated (state) militia. The expectation was that if the country (or a particular state) was under attack, the state militias would be called out to defend against that threat. They also acknowledged that men needed a rifle to provide for their families in the days before Safeway and Albertsons. Over the course of two plus centuries, gun rights (especially hand gun rights) were much more restricted than they are now. Somewhat recent SCOTUS decisions overturned those decisions. Funny things happen when virtually unlimited lobbyist dollars meet an activist Supreme Court. And that cuts both ways. I'm sure if the anti gun lobby had unlimited funds (and perhaps a change or two on the judicial bench) there would like be more restrictions on gun ownership. In the wake of seemingly unending mass shootings, it's going to be interesting how this plays out in the future.
 
dviss1 said:
You can't buy one of those man...
Click to expand...
According to Oregon gun laws you can

"Allowed as long as such items including machine gun lower receivers/ automatics sears, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and suppressors are in compliance with federal law and registered to the NFA.". The link I just gave you shows the ability to transfer ownership, which follows federal guideline compliance.
 
http://xdind.com/yes-you-can-legally-own-a-grenade-launcher/

The National Firearms Act classifies firearms into several categories.

  • Machine Guns – Any weapon that fires more than one round when the trigger is pulled
  • Short Barreled Rifles – Any rifle with a barrel shorter than 14″ or an overall length of less than 26″
  • Short Barreled Shotgun – Any shotgun with a barrel shorter than 16″
  • Silencer – Any portable device used to muffle the sound of a gunshot
  • Destructive Device – Explosive and chemical weapons, or anything with a bore larger than .50, excluding those with a sporting use, such as shotguns or hunting rifles.
  • Any Other Weapon – Disguised weapons, Pen guns, guns designed to fire from concealment, smooth bore pistols. Essentially a catch-all for anything that isn’t a pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle that doesn’t fit the categories above.
These are called Title II weapons. Many people think that it’s illegal to own these, but it’s not. First, you have to make sure that you can legally own one in the area that you live in. If you want an RPG, you need to make sure that you are able to own and store explosives. You may still be able to buy your grenade launcher, but you may be prevented from owning anything other than bean bags and flares.

Then, you have to find a place that is selling them. There aren’t that many on the market for civilians to buy, so good luck. Once you find a place, you have to go through a more thorough background check that what you would normally find for just purchasing a pistol. This may take some time, but once you are cleared, and it is registered in your name, you are free to take your Destructive Device home. After, of course, you pay the fees for the registration and background checks and a $200 tax.

Note, that is for each destructive device. That means that the launchers is one device, and each grenade is another. So if you if you want to buy an Milkor MGL MK1, you’ll have to go through this process and pay the tax for the weapon itself, and then once again for each grenade. So if you want to fill the cylinder, it’s going to cost you $1,400 in taxes alone. The launcher itself is going to be between $2,000 to $3000, depending on which one you want. The ammunition though? If you want anything more than flares, it’s going to be at least $300 per 40mm round, and that’s before taxes and fees. Shooting a destructive device is an expensive hobby.
 
You can own just about anything if you want to pay the permits for them.
 
dviss1 said:
I know exactly what you're talking about. You're blaming women for "staying in abusive relationships" to deflect against the fact that they are 12x more likely to be killed in domestic violence situation.

AND there's no such thing as PC it's called respect...
Click to expand...

If someone is abusive, whether it's a man or a woman, then that person belongs in jail. If someone won't protect themselves, what are we supposed to do about that? If they won't take the steps necessary to remove that person from their life, or to get help, or defend that person, what are we supposed to say? My mother was in an extremely abusive relationship before she met my dad. She got the fuck out. She left him and she never looked back. If someone can't/won't try to get help, then at some point that's on them.
 
This video is kind of like the way the action in this thread between the pro- and anti-guns folks goes:

 
dviss1 said:
Why can't you yell Fire in a crowded theater? Why can't you slander another person? Because your 1st Amendment right has been regulated.
Click to expand...
That's not regulation, it's criminalization of misuse of a freedom.

If you think banning guns is the answer to gun crime (against the 2nd amendment), then explain why you don't favor cutting out everyone's vocal cords so they can't yell "fire!"

Hint: gun owners and people with vocal cords are neither likely to abuse their freedom. Only a teeny weeny small fraction, close to zero.
 
magnifier661 said:
These are called Title II weapons. Many people think that it’s illegal to own these, but it’s not. First, you have to make sure that you can legally own one in the area that you live in. If you want an RPG, you need to make sure that you are able to own and store explosives. You may still be able to buy your grenade launcher, but you may be prevented from owning anything other than bean bags and flares.

Then, you have to find a place that is selling them. There aren’t that many on the market for civilians to buy, so good luck. Once you find a place, you have to go through a more thorough background check that what you would normally find for just purchasing a pistol. This may take some time, but once you are cleared, and it is registered in your name, you are free to take your Destructive Device home. After, of course, you pay the fees for the registration and background checks and a $200 tax.

Note, that is for each destructive device. That means that the launchers is one device, and each grenade is another. So if you if you want to buy an Milkor MGL MK1, you’ll have to go through this process and pay the tax for the weapon itself, and then once again for each grenade. So if you want to fill the cylinder, it’s going to cost you $1,400 in taxes alone. The launcher itself is going to be between $2,000 to $3000, depending on which one you want. The ammunition though? If you want anything more than flares, it’s going to be at least $300 per 40mm round, and that’s before taxes and fees. Shooting a destructive device is an expensive hobby.
Click to expand...

All that sounds like a huge infringement of your second amendment rights. If I was you I'd be all 'up in arms' about that.

barfo
 
Natebishop3 said:
If someone is abusive, whether it's a man or a woman, then that person belongs in jail. If someone won't protect themselves, what are we supposed to do about that? If they won't take the steps necessary to remove that person from their life, or to get help, or defend that person, what are we supposed to say? My mother was in an extremely abusive relationship before she met my dad. She got the fuck out. She left him and she never looked back. If someone can't/won't try to get help, then at some point that's on them.
Click to expand...

I'm very glad she did. However, this is usually when the killings happen, when the woman tries to get out.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And I'm not talking about them, but if his stance is that a woman in an abusive relationship is 12x more likely to be killed with a gun in the home, I'd say the first step is to leave the abusive asshole.
Click to expand...

That's when the killing happens Nate...
 
My wife wanted to practice with her hand gun the other day. Probably a little worried about me take off for awhile. So she asked me to help, make sure she was doing it right.

I made her a cardboard target with about a 7 inch diameter bulls eye and set it up on bank about 200 feet from our house. I positioned her about 16 feet from the target and told her,
now I don't want you to sight and squint at the target. Just look at that bulls eye and imagine it is the breast bone of an attacker. Just raise your gun, while looking at the center mass of your
target with both eyes, point the gun at the mass and put three round in it fast!

She did it! Three in the black. Soon as she had done it, I said put one more in there! Bang! She did it.

Wonderful! Lesson over, you are good enough. Just keep up the fire until the target is down, then let him lay there, do not approach, call 911.
I gave her a new box of ammo and told her to practice any time you think you need it, but I don't do it myself more than once a year. Just to feel the gun and feel comfortable with it and know
you can put the rounds where you need them to be.

You don't want to mess with that lady.
 
barfo said:
All that sounds like a huge infringement of your second amendment rights. If I was you I'd be all 'up in arms' about that.

barfo
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I just have my representative @dviss1 to tell them their law is "bullshit" and I get whatever I want.
 
dviss1 said:
Domestic violence in homes with guns women are 12x more likely to be killed. It's not the same with homes with knives.

This is simply a bad argument that compares apples to oranges. Guns are instruments of death. Knives chop up your salad...
Click to expand...
Oh really?
In "civilized" countries that have banned firearms, knives are now one of the preferred instruments of death. If someone wants to kill they'll find a way.
After the fire arm ban, the UK has become one of the most violent countries in the EU if not the most violent. And why not? Attack someone weaker than yourself and you can be reasonably certain
that they won't be able to retaliate. Home invasion robberies are particularly popular in the UK because thugs know that the weak and elderly have been disarmed and have no means
to protect themselves.
http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/22/save-a-life-surrender-your-knife/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...n-ban-uk-urges-save-life-surrender-your-knife
Where do we stop banning "easily obtainable" things that can be used as weapons by criminals & mentally unstable people? We have around 22,000 laws on the books pertaining to and regulating firearms.
Which of those aren't common sense and why won't those darn criminals abide by them? Not common sense enough?
 
Last edited:
INCREASINGLY UNHINGED commentary by Republican presidential candidates about the massacre last week at a community college in Oregon might not seem worth a second glance. Some of the statements have been contemptible and/or ignorant, it is true. But they are worthy of attention, if only for what they say about the poverty of the argument against regulation of gun ownership.

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal prefaced a blog post on the shooting with a good deal of self-congratulation about his willingness to discuss what other politicians “are afraid to talk about. . . . I don’t care at all if some people don’t like it, the truth is important.” It turns out that what took so much courage was Mr. Jindal’s broadside against the father of the now-deceased Oregon shooter, for being divorced and insufficiently involved in his son’s life. “He’s a complete failure as a father, he should be embarrassed to even show his face in public,” Mr. Jindal bravely wrote. “He’s the problem here.”

Candidate Ben Carson identified a different problem: the insufficient gumption of the students and faculty of Umpqua Community College. “Of course, you know, if everybody attacks that gunman, he’s not going to be able to kill everybody,” Mr. Carson told Fox News. “But if you sit there and let him shoot you one by one, you’re all going to be dead.” He made this argument without even realizing — here is where the ignorance comes in — that Army veteran Chris Mintz had tried to stop the shooter and been shot seven times in the process. He also said that kindergarten teachers should be armed; but, he later clarified, maybe not all kindergarten teachers; and they shouldn’t leave the guns lying around but should lock them; but as a result they would have to be “trained in diversionary tactics and whatever needs to be done in order to get there and” — well, you get the idea. It’s a mishmash of absurdity untroubled by contemplation.

We suppose that, in contrast, the nation should be grateful for the “stuff happens” reactions of former Florida governor Jeb Bush and Donald Trump; they both responded by saying, in essence, that there will always be some bad people who do bad things, so why don’t we just move on?

Up to a point they are right, of course; the government will never prevent all violence. But it’s also perfectly obvious that the government could take steps that would reduce the incidence of mass shootings, suicides, domestic homicides, children shooting children and other gun violence. Bad people exist in other countries; mentally ill people exist in other countries; young, disturbed men play violent video games in other countries. Some of them even grow up without fathers. But countries that do not allow so many guns to circulate so freely lose many, many fewer of their citizens to gun crimes or accidents. Republican candidates are increasingly tying themselves in knots on this issue, because there’s no logical way to refute that one, clear truth.
Click to expand...

barfo
 
Tweak said:
Oh really?
In "civilized" countries that have banned firearms, knives are now one of the preferred instruments of death. If someone wants to kill they'll find a way.
After the fire arm ban, the UK has become one of the most violent countries in the EU if not the most violent. And why not? Attack someone weaker than yourself and you can be reasonably certain
that they won't be able to retaliate. Home invasion robberies are particularly popular in the UK because thugs know that the weak and elderly have been disarmed and have no means
to protect themselves.
http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/22/save-a-life-surrender-your-knife/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...n-ban-uk-urges-save-life-surrender-your-knife
Where do we stop banning "easily obtainable" things that can be used as weapons by criminals & mentally unstable people? We have around 22,000 laws on the books pertaining to and regulating firearms.
Which of those aren't common sense and why won't those darn criminals abide by them? Not common sense enough?
Click to expand...
Lol at the "point end band". Ladies everywhere up in arms with frustration as they try and cut their 40 day old lamb.
 
When I went to Boot Camp many years ago now, myself and a guy from the Louisiana Bayous were put in a company comprised of about half from NYC and half from Chicago. The Great Lakes
training center was closed at that time for some reason, so everyone was sent to San Diego. So a West Coast boy being grouped up with the big city boys was unusual. Man they were a hip bunch,
they had a quip for every event and knew how to hold their mouth right! The Bayou boy and I sort of migrated together early on.

As time went by it slowly became apparent, these hipsters didn't really know shit, actually pretty damn dumb. Well, lacked experience might be more truthful. First off only about 10 guys of the 62 in the company could swim! The Bayou boy and I among the swimmers. Hell I even swam the length of the pool under water, not to show off but because it was easier form me since I learned to do it that way, being heavier than water. Then fire fighting training was another eye opener. How easy the city boys panic in room full of smoke when all you had to do was put the fucking fire out.
Of course you needed to filter your breath air with your clothing for a bit while snuffing the fire, but not so hard.

Then rifle training! Holy hell, the Bayou boy and I were the only ones that knew which end of the fucking rifle did what! Day on day of dry drill with this bunch of morons learning which end of the rifle goes to the shoulder. Then we got to the firing line at Camp Pendleton. Geez, I was excited, that M1 rifle seemed like a very fine weapon and I was anxious to put it to the test.
But I had to wait my turn, I had come up last as assigned by the Chief. So I watched these city boys flinch and jerk off shots, Grimace and fire! Geez it was appauling, I have to maybe go to war with this bunch?!?!?

Finally my turn came. The Marine Sargent on the line gave me one round. I took aim and fired. The target crew waved me off as a miss. I said, Sargent! There has to be something wrong with this
weapon! He called for a recheck of the target. Hot damn! Bulls Eye! Those guys had been so used to misses they hardly payed attention.
The Sargent gave me a full clip for the M1 and told me, rapid fire lets see what you got! I did just that with pleasure. All bulls but one and it was in the black. I remember years later seeing a movie staring Gary Cooper, Sargent York, where that same scene was in the movie all most exactly.

We don't need more gun control, we need more gun training for the youth in this country. Fear of weapons is making terrible laws and bringing us ridiculous policies.
 
MarAzul said:
When I went to Boot Camp many years ago now, myself and a guy from the Louisiana Bayous were put in a company comprised of about half from NYC and half from Chicago. The Great Lakes
training center was closed at that time for some reason, so everyone was sent to San Diego. So a West Coast boy being grouped up with the big city boys was unusual. Man they were a hip bunch,
they had a quip for every event and knew how to hold their mouth right! The Bayou boy and I sort of migrated together early on.

As time went by it slowly became apparent, these hipsters didn't really know shit, actually pretty damn dumb. Well, lacked experience might be more truthful. First off only about 10 guys of the 62 in the company could swim! The Bayou boy and I among the swimmers. Hell I even swam the length of the pool under water, not to show off but because it was easier form me since I learned to do it that way, being heavier than water. Then fire fighting training was another eye opener. How easy the city boys panic in room full of smoke when all you had to do was put the fucking fire out.
Of course you needed to filter your breath air with your clothing for a bit while snuffing the fire, but not so hard.

Then rifle training! Holy hell, the Bayou boy and I were the only ones that knew which end of the fucking rifle did what! Day on day of dry drill with this bunch of morons learning which end of the rifle goes to the shoulder. Then we got to the firing line at Camp Pendleton. Geez, I was excited, that M1 rifle seemed like a very fine weapon and I was anxious to put it to the test.
But I had to wait my turn, I had come up last as assigned by the Chief. So I watched these city boys flinch and jerk off shots, Grimace and fire! Geez it was appauling, I have to maybe go to war with this bunch?!?!?

Finally my turn came. The Marine Sargent on the line gave me one round. I took aim and fired. The target crew waved me off as a miss. I said, Sargent! There has to be something wrong with this
weapon! He called for a recheck of the target. Hot damn! Bulls Eye! Those guys had been so used to misses they hardly payed attention.
The Sargent gave me a full clip for the M1 and told me, rapid fire lets see what you got! I did just that with pleasure. All bulls but one and it was in the black. I remember years later seeing a movie staring Gary Cooper, Sargent York, where that same scene was in the movie all most exactly.

We don't need more gun control, we need more gun training for the youth in this country. Fear of weapons is making terrible laws and bringing us ridiculous policies.
Click to expand...

I think this definitely rates a "cool story, bro"

barfo
 
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