Gun Control, Mental healthcare, big brother... thread

[dviss1]

We have background checks. In Oregon we now have required background checks on private sales as well. Did you not know this?

They're not nationwide.

 

[dviss1]

So for those of you who say we want to take your guns away, I don't see anyone in this thread who has advocated for that.

So please, stop burning that strawman on us...

 

[Natebishop3]

They're not nationwide.

Where do they not have any background checks at all?

 

[dviss1]

Now what I have seen in this thread is talking about rounding up the "crazies", Black people being the problem.

NO solutions on what to do about the mental health issue. Just hyperbole.

 

[dviss1]

Where do they not have any background checks at all?

Personal Gun sales are not regulated. Family inheritances are not regulated either (just because the dad was psychologically competent doesn't mean the son is. See the UCC shooter.). I've sold firearms (believe it or not) without a background check. That IMHO should be illegal.

 

[Natebishop3]

Now what I have seen in this thread is talking about rounding up the "crazies", Black people being the problem.

NO solutions on what to do about the mental health issue. Just hyperbole.

Dude, seriously? It was a fucking joke. I posted what I thought we should do a few pages back and you ignored it. You are the definition of a SJW.

I'm late to this, so I'm not going to read through 30 pages to see if this was already covered, but here are my thoughts:

1. I think everyone wants the same end result: no more school shootings. Is it fair to assume that everyone wants these things to stop?

2. Guns are not the cause of these shootings. They are the method. They are the tool, but they are not the root cause of these events. Millions of people buy guns, own guns, and never commit a crime, so to say that guns are the reason for something like Umpqua is false. They might amplify the damages of the event, but they do not cause it. We need to address the root cause of these shootings. That should be the goal.

3. The trend seems to be mental illness, but the motive seemed to be different with this most recent one. Most of the school shootings seemed to be about revenge or anger. This most recent one seemed to be almost entirely about seeking attention.

4. People need to stop throwing out the phrase "gun control" when they clearly have no clue what laws are already in place. We have background checks. If you never committed a crime that would prevent you from owning a gun, guess what, you can go out and buy a gun (just like this most recent asshole.) Or, in the case of the Clackamas shooting, or the Reynolds shooting, you can just go steal one from someone you know (who legally bought it.)

So what would my solution be?

1. I would make it illegal for the news media to publicize the name of the shooter. In fact, there REALLY needs to be some kind of regulation or punishment for running with any possible rumor and reporting it as fact. The internet and twitter has created a feeding frenzy of which we have never before seen in the history of the world. The media runs with everything now. It's better to be first and wrong, then to be last and right. We need to remove the celebrity status from these shootings. We need to make it as though these people never existed. Wipe them from the face of the earth. Not only will they not get the attention that they seek, but they will cease to exist in the record books.

2. I would give the public access to the NICS database so they can run their own background checks before selling a gun. The Republicans tried to get this passed and the Democrats stood in the way. The NICS database is what gun stores use to check if someone has a criminal record. "The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is a U.S. system for determining if prospective firearms or explosives buyers are eligible to buy. It was mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Law) of 1993 and launched by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 1998." Currently the average citizen does not have access to this system. We have to go to a gun store and pay the owner to run a background check through the NCIS.

3. We need to spend money on helping schools identify kids with problems and getting them help. Talking with parents. Identify people who might pose a threat and spend some time trying to help them. I'm not saying we should start a witch hunt. I just think that some of these people exhibit warning signs before they snap and we need to develop methods and spend resources to figure out what these warning signs are and dedicate extra time to helping those kids. I'm not talking about zero tolerance. Right now schools freak the fuck out and suspend anytime someone even remotely exhibits an affinity for guns. Identify if the signs are there and then start a dialog with the child and the parents.

 

[Natebishop3]

Personal Gun sales are not regulated. Family inheritances are not regulated either (just because the dad was psychologically competent doesn't mean the son is. See the UCC shooter.). I've sold firearms (believe it or not) without a background check. That IMHO should be illegal.

They are now in Oregon and Washington. Read a news paper.

 

[magnifier661]

So for those of you who say we want to take your guns away, I don't see anyone in this thread who has advocated for that.

So please, stop burning that strawman on us...

You're wrong... You justified UK banning guns and vanilla gorilla has publicly said he advocates a ban of all guns.

 

[dviss1]

Dude, seriously? It was a fucking joke. I posted what I thought we should do a few pages back and you ignored it. You are the definition of a SJW.

It was a bad joke. Also, there are some in here who probably support that. I didn't ignore your post, I just have no time to go through this long ass thread to find it.

They are now in Oregon and Washington. Read a news paper.

One day you'll get that I'm talking nationwide. Are there background checks in AZ where Gabby Gifford was shot?

 

[dviss1]

You're wrong... You justified UK banning guns and vanilla gorilla has publicly said he advocates a ban of all guns.

I never justified anything. What I said was in those countries they have FAR less gun deaths. I never advocated or justified anything.

 

[magnifier661]

Now what I have seen in this thread is talking about rounding up the "crazies", Black people being the problem.

NO solutions on what to do about the mental health issue. Just hyperbole.

Fuck your "Racism problem". I will not support using racism in an educated debate on a political issue. That's for the liberal meme army to try and push on social media. I would hope this group is smarter than that

 

[dviss1]

Bottom line:

 

[magnifier661]

I never justified anything. What I said was in those countries they have FAR less gun deaths. I never advocated or justified anything.

And ignored their violent crime is 3 times higher? You aren't seeing the relevance?

 

[Natebishop3]

It was a bad joke. Also, there are some in here who probably support that. I didn't ignore your post, I just have no time to go through this long ass thread to find it.



One day you'll get that I'm talking nationwide. Are there background checks in AZ where Gabby Gifford was shot?

I don't care if it was a bad joke. I was poking fun at you and you're acting like I was being serious. Or I guess you could just keep using it to further your ridiculous agenda. Be my guest.

Well, considering this last shooting happened in OREGON and we have those laws that you mentioned IN OREGON then I guess clearly we need them throughout the country because they'll make such a huge difference, no?

 

[magnifier661]

Bottom line:

So if we use this method, will you support guns being "open carry" nationwide as well?

 

[dviss1]

Fuck your "Racism problem". I will not support using racism in an educated debate on a political issue. That's for the liberal meme army to try and push on social media. I would hope this group is smarter than that

Great. So Tell El Presidente to stop with that bullshit. It's not my "racism problem" it's his.

 

[dviss1]

So if we use this method, will you support guns being "open carry" nationwide as well?

Absolutely not. You cannot take a gun into my child's school and FUCK YOU if you want to...

 

[Sedatedfork]

Liability insurance will not cover intentional shootings. Spoiler alert: if you intentionally run over someone your insurance carrier doesn't pay. I suppose it would cover accidental shootings, or perhaps negligent failure to secure guns?

 

[magnifier661]

Great. So Tell El Presidente to stop with that bullshit. It's not my "racism problem" it's his.

It was statistics. I actually don't use "color" when I read those stats. I see "poverty" as the social issue. The more poor society is, the more violent they become. The correlation is dead on. Even the cities that have the highest violent crime rates are usually the poorest in the nation.

 

[Natebishop3]

Bottom line:

Bottom line, we see thousands of cars every day. A lot of us drive every single day.

How many guns do you see on a daily basis? How often do you use a gun? Cars are part of our every day lives. Guns are not. We heavily regulate them because everyone uses cars. Not everyone uses guns.

Now knives, on the other hand, we use every day. I use a knife to cut my dinner. I use a knife to butter my bread. I use a knife to open a box. I use those much much more than I use a gun on a regular basis. Knives are used to commit crimes. Maybe we should have to register all the knives? Maybe we should have to get insurance on all our knives? Maybe we should have to take a class on knife safety?

What do you think?

 

[dviss1]

I don't care if it was a bad joke. I was poking fun at you and you're acting like I was being serious. Or I guess you could just keep using it to further your ridiculous agenda. Be my guest.

Well, considering this last shooting happened in OREGON and we have those laws that you mentioned IN OREGON then I guess clearly we need them throughout the country because they'll make such a huge difference, no?

I realize it was a joke but it did express some of the opinions in here. Denny wants to round them up.

Shootings are happening everywhere. The OP isn't regarding Oregon only.

 

[magnifier661]

Absolutely not. You cannot take a gun into my child's school and FUCK YOU if you want to...

You can drive a car to the park. Fuck you if you want your cake and eat it too

 

[dviss1]

It was statistics. I actually don't use "color" when I read those stats. I see "poverty" as the social issue. The more poor society is, the more violent they become. The correlation is dead on. Even the cities that have the highest violent crime rates are usually the poorest in the nation.

This!!!! NOW we fucking agree...

Poverty is the common denominator when it comes to ALL that ails us.

 

[dviss1]

You can drive a car to the park. Fuck you if you want your cake and eat it too

Huh? When you drive your car to the park it must be licensed, insured etc...

 

[magnifier661]

This!!!! NOW we fucking agree...

Poverty is the common denominator when it comes to ALL that ails us.

And yet you support a candidate that wants to model taxing our country at a 35-49% of GDP. Smart...

 

[magnifier661]

Huh? When you drive your car to the park it must be licensed, insured etc...

And???? I asked if a gun owner follows your meme, can they bring it to the park too? You said "fuck you"

 

[Natebishop3]

I realize it was a joke but it did express some of the opinions in here. Denny wants to round them up.

Shootings are happening everywhere. The OP isn't regarding Oregon only.

But what is the point if it's not going to actually stop these kinds of shootings? Either you're going to find a way to regulate guns so that mentally unstable people can't buy/get ahold of them, OR you're going to continue to see shootings. Most of the shootings weren't something that was a crime of passion. They were premeditated. They planned them. They stockpiled. They didn't just wake up one morning and decide to go down to the school and shoot people. So if the person has all the time in the world to acquire guns, your background checks and classes and registration won't do anything.

 

[dviss1]

Bottom line, we see thousands of cars every day. A lot of us drive every single day.

How many guns do you see on a daily basis? How often do you use a gun? Cars are part of our every day lives. Guns are not. We heavily regulate them because everyone uses cars. Not everyone uses guns.

Now knives, on the other hand, we use every day. I use a knife to cut my dinner. I use a knife to butter my bread. I use a knife to open a box. I use those much much more than I use a gun on a regular basis. Knives are used to commit crimes. Maybe we should have to register all the knives? Maybe we should have to get insurance on all our knives? Maybe we should have to take a class on knife safety?

What do you think?

Domestic violence in homes with guns women are 12x more likely to be killed. It's not the same with homes with knives.

This is simply a bad argument that compares apples to oranges. Guns are instruments of death. Knives chop up your salad...

 

[dviss1]

And???? I asked if a gun owner follows your meme, can they bring it to the park too? You said "fuck you"

Under Obama you can take your firearm to WAY more places than you can under Bush.

 

[Natebishop3]

Domestic violence in homes with guns women are 12x more likely to be killed. It's not the same with homes with knives.

This is simply a bad argument that compares apples to oranges. Guns are instruments of death. Knives chop up your salad...

You don't think a knife is an instrument of death? It's one of the oldest instruments of death