Gun Control, Mental healthcare, big brother... thread (4 Viewers)

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magnifier661 said:
It is, so I'll admit to that.
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Which is the same as saying "nothing to see here".

Either this school shooting doesn't matter, in which case we can just drop it and get on with our lives, or it matters and we should try to do something (not necessarily gun control) to prevent it from happening again.

By complaining that Obama is 'politicizing' the matter, you are saying that it doesn't matter and isn't a worthy subject for national discussion.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Which is the same as saying "nothing to see here".

Either this school shooting doesn't matter, in which case we can just drop it and get on with our lives, or it matters and we should try to do something (not necessarily gun control) to prevent it from happening again.

By complaining that Obama is 'politicizing' the matter, you are saying that it doesn't matter and isn't a worthy subject for national discussion.

barfo
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No it doesn't. The tragedy is much more than gun control. We weren't talking about the pressure cooker when the Boston Marathon blew up as much as the tragic event that took place. Then it was directed toward the Muslim extremists. Funny how the media even talked about the people and group doing the horrific event but in this event you can politicize guns on an event where someone was pulling the trigger.
 
magnifier661 said:
No it doesn't. The tragedy is much more than gun control. We weren't talking about the pressure cooker when the Boston Marathon blew up as much as the tragic event that took place. Then it was directed toward the Muslim extremists. Funny how that even talked about the people and group that did the horrific event gun you can politicize guns on an event where someone was pulling the trigger.
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See, what you are actually meaning by "Obama is politicizing this" is just "Obama is saying something I disagree with".

If you think there's a better solution than what Obama proposes, great! But in that case you are also guilty of "politicizing the issue".

If you think we should stop looking for solutions, then you are saying "nothing to see here".

There aren't any other options. Either you think we as a country should do something about this, or you think we shouldn't. Which is it?

barfo
 
barfo said:
See, what you are actually meaning by "Obama is politicizing this" is just "Obama is saying something I disagree with".

If you think there's a better solution than what Obama proposes, great! But in that case you are also guilty of "politicizing the issue".

If you think we should stop looking for solutions, then you are saying "nothing to see here".

There aren't any other options. Either you think we as a country should do something about this, or you think we shouldn't. Which is it?

barfo
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No, Obama is politicizing this and his track record has warranted my statement. When the Boston marathon happened, Obama refused to call them "Islamic terrorists" and didn't once mention that terrorism is a problem in this country. He focused more on the victims and how we need to have more security in these large events.

Then here we are with the latest tragic event and he spends 10-15% of his time talking about the victims, then uses the rest to politicize gun control. Oddly, he didn't talk about schools beefing up their security which is a total contradiction to his Boston Marathon soap box.

I know you have your Obama blinders on, but anyone that's outside the box sees this agenda.
 
magnifier661 said:
No, Obama is politicizing this and his track record has warranted my statement. When the Boston marathon happened, Obama refused to call them "Islamic terrorists" and didn't once mention that terrorism is a problem in this country. He focused more on the victims and how we need to have more security in these large events.

Then here we are with the latest tragic event and he spends 10-15% of his time talking about the victims, then uses the rest to politicize gun control.
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Politicize gun control? That doesn't even make sense. Gun control is inherently a political subject.

Oddly, he didn't talk about schools beefing up their security which is a total contradiction to his Boston Marathon soap box.

I know you have your Obama blinders on, but anyone that's outside the box sees this agenda.
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I don't deny he has an agenda. Everyone does, including me and you. You are just jealous that his soapbox is so much taller than yours.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Do you think we should do something/anything to stop this sort of thing from happening, or should we not do anything at all?

barfo
 
barfo said:
Politicize gun control? That doesn't even make sense. Gun control is inherently a political subject.
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so is "Islamic Terrorism", which Obama will never speak of. He had no problem pushing that agenda aside to talk about security and the victims for most his speech.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Do you think we should do something/anything to stop this sort of thing from happening, or should we not do anything at all?

barfo
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Maybe we should listen to Obama after the Boston marathon? He said beef up security to stop events like this to happen again.
 
magnifier661 said:
Maybe we should listen to Obama after the Boston marathon? He said beef up security to stop events like this to happen again.
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So, how much more in taxes are you willing to pay to put trained, armed guards in every school? How much more in taxes are you willing to pay to put in metal detectors and other security devices?

barfo
 
barfo said:
So, how much more in taxes are you willing to pay to put trained, armed guards in every school? How much more in taxes are you willing to pay to put in metal detectors and other security devices?

barfo
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Less than the tax to enforce nationwide legislation on gun control.
 
OBAMA BUDGET SKYROCKETS GUN CONTROL FUNDING
obama_gun_control_kids_AP.JPG

President Obama’s budget contains a significantly elevated level of spending dedicated to enforcement of federal gun control. According to the budget, the Department of Justice will be granted some $395 million “to combat gun violence, and ensure that those who are not eligible to purchase or possess guns are prevented from doing so.” More importantly, the budget includes funding designed to “increase inspections of the firearms industry.”
The budget includes “an increase of $173 million” for more federal gun control enforcement. It is unclear how much the federal government spent in 2012 on gun control enforcement. The budget also reportedly includes $10 million for research on gun violence and $222 million on school safety measures including “increasing firearms safety.”

Ben Shapiro is Editor-At-Large of Breitbart News and author of the New York Times bestseller “Bullies: How the Left’s Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences America” (Threshold Editions, January 8, 2013).
 
MarAzul said:
If you support this, you need to be on the list.
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Reading is fundamental, MarAzul. I posted my observation about judicial activism, not my opinion in support of it. But, sure, put me on your list if it floats your boat (Ha! I made a funny).
 
$300 million per year could most likely help with security for every school in United States. The states could budget in more to beef up violent cities.

It's much cheaper to secure school than making a nationwide gun control legislation.
 
barfo said:
So, you would spend less on school security than you would on gun control?

barfo
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Yea you would be able to. Like $350 mil to legislate a weak control already would mean hundreds of millions more to spread nationwide.

School security would be much cheaper than that bloated cost.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
That includes, criminals, illegals and terrorists.
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err, I think these guy get their weapons without the inconvenience of the back ground check. Did you know that 92% of the checks that stop a purchase turn out to be
false.
 
magnifier661 said:
$300 million per year could most likely help with security for every school in United States. The states could budget in more to beef up violent cities.
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Really, Mags? That's about $3,000 per school. How much security are you going to get for that?

It's much cheaper to secure school than making a nationwide gun control legislation.
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Let's see your calculations on that. I don't believe you.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Really, Mags? That's about $3,000 per school. How much security are you going to get for that?



Let's see your calculations on that. I don't believe you.

barfo
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98k total public schools (k-12)
10k colleges. So it's roughly 100k.

$3,500 per school from fed.
State pitches in per school, most already have police at the school already.

NY has a state budget of 30 mil on gun control. Apply that to their 1,700 schools and that's an additional $17k and their added security of police they have in crime areas.

But don't stop there. Each school already has security, especially k-12. Training for those security to have weapons to their existing salary and all is well.
 
magnifier661 said:
98k total public schools (k-12)
10k colleges. So it's roughly 100k.

$3,500 per school from fed.
State pitches in per school, most already have police at the school already.

NY has a state budget of 30 mil on gun control. Apply that to their 1,700 schools and that's an additional $17k and their added security of police they have in crime areas.

But don't stop there. Each school already has security, especially k-12. Training for those security to have weapons to their existing salary and all is well.
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We already spend signficantly more than that on school security. How is an extra $3500 going to help exactly? How many armed guards does that pay for? Where are the states going to get more money to contribute? Are you willing to pay more in tax?

Your proposal is more about defunding gun control than it is about improving school security.

barfo
 
barfo said:
We already spend signficantly more than that on school security. How is an extra $3500 going to help exactly? How many armed guards does that pay for? Where are the states going to get more money to contribute? Are you willing to pay more in tax?

Your proposal is more about defunding gun control than it is about improving school security.

barfo
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Two words...

Laser Drones!
 
magnifier661 said:
Yeah the background checks failed. Failed like the arguments in this thread that more control equals less violent crimes.
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Bullshit. Look at other countries. You don't know what you're talking about. You, just like most gun nuts in this thread are spouting.

Now it's "Black people are the problem.." Jesus fucking Christ....
 
donkiez said:
and here is the solution for the gun nuts.

http://rickwells.us/grassroots-move...me-visit-of-obama-to-roseburg-organizing-now/

Damn Obama, politicizing politics, like a politician. What a SOB.

If you want to have a real laugh go to the faceb00k page. Its like someone threw water on mags after midnight over there.
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From their facebook page.

#4 Please bring a handgun (instead of a rifle) to this emotional protest against the president. (This will end well.)

Hi folks,
This page is getting an incredible amount of attention, literally thousands and thousands of hits from all over. it is even MORE important right now that you please consider the guidelines BEFORE making a new post.

1. The post MUST be directly related to the rally on Friday.
2. The post MUST offer a positive contribution to the effort; offer resources, support, news articles on the rally, etc.

If you've posted something in a comment, PLEASE do not post it again in other threads, or as multiple posts. Spamming your thoughts WILL get you removed from the page.

We have a lot of people coming here looking for information on the rally. Please keep the page as clear as possible so that as we get information we can get it out to you and have it seen.

Thank you so much for your support!

STATEMENT OF PURPOSE:

1. The town of Roseburg has already made it incredibly clear that Obama is NOT welcome there, and they do not want him to come. He is choosing to ignore that.

2. Our purpose is NOT to broker a violent confrontation with government officials on any level. If that is your intent, do not attend. Anyone who comes and commits violent acts or attempts to cause chaos is NOT sanctioned by us.

3. Our purpose is very simple: We mourn with Roseburg, and we respect their wish to be left alone to mourn. They do not want Obama there, and the President does not have the right to force himself on the people. We as Americans and patriots will do our peaceful and non-violent best to ensure their wishes are respected.

4. We will not tell you how to carry or what to carry if you plan to bring firearms, although we politely suggest that you consider choosing a handgun instead of a rifle, if you plan to open carry. That being said, the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING is that regardless of what you carry, that you do so safely, responsibly, and with the highest level of decorum and conduct.

As Washington wrote, "Remember that you are Freemen, fighting for the blessings of Liberty - that slavery will be your portion, and that of your posterity, if you do not acquit yourselves like men."

The nation, and the world, is watching. Please, act accordingly.

EDIT, 2303 hours: We understand that some feel as though NOT showing up would send a greater message. You may be correct. However, people WILL show up. What we are trying to do is direct the energy and ensure that the event happens in a safe, positive, and productive manner.

As for those who question people bringing firearms: We are gun owners. We carry every day. That day will be no different. We carry responsibly, safely, and for the protection of ourselves and others.

Again, if you choose to take part in this event, please conduct yourselves as responsible patriots. Thank you.
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I'm late to this, so I'm not going to read through 30 pages to see if this was already covered, but here are my thoughts:

1. I think everyone wants the same end result: no more school shootings. Is it fair to assume that everyone wants these things to stop?

2. Guns are not the cause of these shootings. They are the method. They are the tool, but they are not the root cause of these events. Millions of people buy guns, own guns, and never commit a crime, so to say that guns are the reason for something like Umpqua is false. They might amplify the damages of the event, but they do not cause it. We need to address the root cause of these shootings. That should be the goal.

3. The trend seems to be mental illness, but the motive seemed to be different with this most recent one. Most of the school shootings seemed to be about revenge or anger. This most recent one seemed to be almost entirely about seeking attention.

4. People need to stop throwing out the phrase "gun control" when they clearly have no clue what laws are already in place. We have background checks. If you never committed a crime that would prevent you from owning a gun, guess what, you can go out and buy a gun (just like this most recent asshole.) Or, in the case of the Clackamas shooting, or the Reynolds shooting, you can just go steal one from someone you know (who legally bought it.)

So what would my solution be?

1. I would make it illegal for the news media to publicize the name of the shooter. In fact, there REALLY needs to be some kind of regulation or punishment for running with any possible rumor and reporting it as fact. The internet and twitter has created a feeding frenzy of which we have never before seen in the history of the world. The media runs with everything now. It's better to be first and wrong, then to be last and right. We need to remove the celebrity status from these shootings. We need to make it as though these people never existed. Wipe them from the face of the earth. Not only will they not get the attention that they seek, but they will cease to exist in the record books.

2. I would give the public access to the NICS database so they can run their own background checks before selling a gun. The Republicans tried to get this passed and the Democrats stood in the way. The NICS database is what gun stores use to check if someone has a criminal record. "The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is a U.S. system for determining if prospective firearms or explosives buyers are eligible to buy. It was mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Law) of 1993 and launched by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 1998." Currently the average citizen does not have access to this system. We have to go to a gun store and pay the owner to run a background check through the NCIS.

3. We need to spend money on helping schools identify kids with problems and getting them help. Talking with parents. Identify people who might pose a threat and spend some time trying to help them. I'm not saying we should start a witch hunt. I just think that some of these people exhibit warning signs before they snap and we need to develop methods and spend resources to figure out what these warning signs are and dedicate extra time to helping those kids. I'm not talking about zero tolerance. Right now schools freak the fuck out and suspend anytime someone even remotely exhibits an affinity for guns. Identify if the signs are there and then start a dialog with the child and the parents.
 
dviss1 said:
Bullshit. Look at other countries. You don't know what you're talking about. You, just like most gun nuts in this thread are spouting.

Now it's "Black people are the problem.." Jesus fucking Christ....
Click to expand...

Is that what you took from those statistics? Wow.... blinders.
 
dviss1 said:
Bullshit. Look at other countries. You don't know what you're talking about. You, just like most gun nuts in this thread are spouting.

Now it's "Black people are the problem.." Jesus fucking Christ....
Click to expand...
When I used other countries, the argument was "Well it's not the same as our country" argument. But hell, when you use other countries to support your argument, then it's totally empirical. Okay... Got it!

Btw, UK has a complete ban on guns and they have more violent crime than the US per capita.
 
magnifier661 said:
When I used other countries, the argument was "Well it's not the same as our country" argument. But hell, when you use other countries to support your argument, then it's totally empirical. Okay... Got it!

Btw, UK has a complete ban on guns and they have more violent crime than the US per capita.
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You sir are on some bullshit. I've never even heard you use the "other countries argument". American Exceptionalists like you never use that argument. It wasn't me who argued against comparing ourselves to other industrialized nations.

The UK doesn't have NEARLY the gun deaths. So go away with that bullshit argument. They are LESS than 200 per year compared to our 18000+...
 
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