Harrison Dang Diddily Do Damn Diddily Darn Barnes

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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

You seem to be assuming that the media correctly predicted the picks based on considering need. Perhaps they correctly predicted the picks because they had good information on whom Olshey liked (as BPA)? Of course, if that's true, it's not a terribly great thing that Olshey had no secrets, since that can at times cost you a competitive advantage...fortunately, there was no trade action, so it really wasn't much of an issue.

Maybe, but it kept getting described as a big and a small and not as the picks were because of BPA . . . at least to me
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Got a link MM. I know he talked alot about BPA during his initial interview and don't remember anything about teirs. Was it some other interview or that one?

I honestly can't remember which one. I know for a fact though that it was either his presser or interview afterwards with MB and Wheels
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Alright here I am again in teh same debate as last night. A link to his original interview should clear up what he said (he also said Blazers are not rebuilding they are retooling and Kaleb was his guy . . . as I remember).

Maybe a lot of this is my frustration because I believed what he was saying and as Nik points out that might not have been the wisest choice.

Olshey obviuosly knows more about these players than I do and his reputation is at stake, so I will trust he made the right decision and improved the club. I'm just not going to believe much of what he says from here on out . . . until I trust what he is saying again. :)
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

That is why I bring up the media. They were predicting that the Blazers would pick a PG. Zeller went as far as to say he heard from his agent that the Blazers would pick one small and one big. He said that a day or two before the draft and that sounds like drafting based on need to me. So if Blazers picked BPA, jut coincidence it was a small and a big?

Who was better that was available? I just felt like everyone else remaining at #11 was fairly equal to Leonard in terms of talent and potential. So, if all things are equal, why not go with the height? It's something we need.

I mean.... if a PF and C are available, and they're fairly equal, respectively...... If you have a PF already, you lean for the C, and vice versa if you already have a C.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Who was better that was available? I just felt like everyone else remaining at #11 was fairly equal to Leonard in terms of talent and potential. So, if all things are equal, why not go with the height? It's something we need.

I mean.... if a PF and C are available, and they're fairly equal, respectively...... If you have a PF already, you lean for the C, and vice versa if you already have a C.

I don't know who is better which is why I said I'll just wait to see how it plays out.

I was responding to your post that you had no reason to believe anything other than BPA. Maybe it was BPA . . . I just find it odd that the whole world knew we would come out of the draft with a PG and a center.

I get it, apparently my suspicions are wrong according to this board.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

All I know is that the question was proposed here several times over the last couple days, "if Barnes slips do we take him over Lillard?" And not one person responded.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I get it, apparently my suspicions are wrong according to this board.

I don't think your suspicions are right or wrong...it's unknown. But he espoused the right philosophy, from what I can tell, and he made no overtly terrible picks (based on mainstream evaluations) so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he reveals himself to be wrongheaded (which could certainly happen). That's my position, essentially.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I don't know who is better which is why I said I'll just wait to see how it plays out.

I was responding to your post that you had no reason to believe anything other than BPA. Maybe it was BPA . . . I just find it odd that the whole world knew we would come out of the draft with a PG and a center.

I get it, apparently my suspicions are wrong according to this board.

I kinda expected it. But I don't think it was set in stone. I just think, more than anything, that's how the draft played out, in large part due to the level of talent out there at the respective picks.

For the record.... I don't think you're wrong. I just think you should keep an open mind on this.

But let's not pretend we're shocked by this draft. In MZ's "cash in your chips" thread, there were A LOT of people predicting we'd pick Lillard and Leonard. I think we had identified who we felt would be available and who we wanted, and we didn't hide it very well.
 
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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

All I know is that the question was proposed here several times over the last couple days, "if Barnes slips do we take him over Lillard?" And not one person responded.

Interesting observation.

When that question was asked regarding MKG, Beal, and Robinson, people didn't hesitate to answer and say you draft these guys ahead of Lillard, though.

Maybe it's an indication that Barnes is in a lower tier than the three players listed above.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Danm it, like I have time for this. I did not find a link to the intro interview. I found a thread about it (below) and I found a thread about the interview with Radio guys (below) where Tone tries to tell Olshey that we need a PG and center from the draft and Olshey doesn't agree (below). Just trying to figure out if I'm more nuts than I already am . . .


It seems like point guard and center are the two positions that need to be addressed. Is there a mechanism in place allows you to look at who's available and what position you want to start looking at first, or is that dictated by what is available when you draft?

Well look, it's cliche but it is best player available. I think that the point that this organization is at right now is an asset acquisition phase 'Tone. We've got to rebuild our assets and at that point, either guys are going to make your team and contribute because they were drafted or you're going to be able to use those assets to generate a deal to bring players in from the outside from other organizations to rebuild the roster. But I think the roster is a work in progress at this point. I think we've got a lot of raw materials and we do have some building blocks with guys like Wes (Matthews) and Nic (Batum) and LaMarcus (Aldridge) and some young players who are yet to develop to their potential yet, and we're going to get in the gym and work with them. But, you know, I think everyone has to look at the draft as a player acquisition vehicle and the more assets you can acquire in this league, the more flexibility you have to build the roster and accelerate the growth to become more successful quicker. We were on one path with the Los Angeles Clippers a year ago, building through the draft, building with youth and when an opportunity came in to go after a franchise-level player, we had the assets to do it. So that's really what the draft is about. It's not about filling needs.

http://sportstwo.com/threads/215185-Olshey-on-Courtside

http://sportstwo.com/threads/214787-Live-coverage-of-the-Neil-Olshey-press-conference

I also remember EdO questioning the philosophy wondering if you could really discount age (didn't quesion not factoring in position, but used a quote saying that). .. thought there was a thread on this but can't find it. Ed I know we don't always agree, but help a brother out. :)
 
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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Hey here's another dose of optimisim from me. Lillard being lightly recruited coming out of high-school and then humbled by only getting offers from small schools looks to have avoided the poisonous AAU mentality that seems to affect so many prospects these days ... No guarantee of NBA talent, but he'll probably be more inclined to work, and hopefully care more about winning more than stats.

Hope, hope, hope.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Character, Character, Character. All three of our picks have it.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

We'll see how Lillard's game translates. But I am excited to watch him and LA on the pick-and-roll. Both players are strong off the p-n-r, so this could be quite the thing to watch for.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

We'll see how Lillard's game translates. But I am excited to watch him and LA on the pick-and-roll. Both players are strong off the p-n-r, so this could be quite the thing to watch for.

Now we just need to get LaMarcus to start setting good picks ...
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I wish Robinson had fallen to us and nobody on this board would be complaining about anything. Although there always seems to be something to complain about in all aspects of life, so I'm sure there would still be doubters.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Cancer is definitely something I wouldn't wish on anyone. I watched my grandmother waste away and die from lung cancer, and I watched the same thing almost take my dad. It is a terrible thing that has touched almost everyone at some point in their lives. I would wager that you would be hard pressed to find someone that hasn't known someone that has or had cancer. In all likelihood I will probably die from cancer one day (hopefully many years from now). Definitely not a joking matter.

A carcinoma walks into a bar with a priest and and a lunchlady...


Ah, never mind, not a laughing matter.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I wish Robinson had fallen to us and nobody on this board would be complaining about anything. Although there always seems to be something to complain about in all aspects of life, so I'm sure there would still be doubters.

I'd be complaining about using the 6th pick to draft the 2nd-best PF on the roster.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Thanks for sharing. I really admire that he wants to be here and how his story has unfolded. I wish him well and hope that we have finally found our point guard. I definitely have higher hopes than I did for Nolan.

There's definitely something to be said for him wanting to be here. He couldn't have made it any more clear, though. I mean, his twitter and facebook pics were of him in Blazers gear. And then, when I saw him dressed for the draft..... that made it pretty damn clear where his head and heart were. And then you see the red socks.....
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Anybody remember when David Kahn drafted Jonny Flynn and Ricky Rubio back-to-back with the 5th and 6th picks, and then Ty Lawson with the 18th pick in the same draft?

Kahn is as close to a "BPA" devotee as it gets, and out of the 3 'BPA' PGs, he traded away the most productive (Lawson), Flynn was a complete bust, and Rubio was a 27% shooter his last two weeks before messing up his knee. Then, Minnesota used that Denver pick for Lawson to trade for ... Martell Webster, while also trading away Luke Babbitt.

Ty Lawson for Martell Webster.

This entire thread seems silly to me. Nobody knows who was the BPA, who will be the BPA, and what BPA even really means to the Blazer organization. If there has a been a bigger nothing basketball thread here in the last year that actually lasted, I'd be hard pressed to tell you what it is.
 
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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Anybody remember when David Kahn drafted Jonny Flynn and Ricky Rubio back-to-back with the 5th and 6th picks, and then Ty Lawson with the 18th pick in the same draft?

Kahn is as close to a "BPA" devotee as it gets, and out of the 3 'BPA' PGs, he traded away the most productive (Lawson), Flynn was a complete bust, and Rubio was a 27% shooter his last two weeks before messing up his knee. Then, Minnesota used that Denver pick for Lawson to trade for ... Martell Webster, while also trading away Luke Babbitt.

Ty Lawson for Martell Webster.

That sounds like a failure of talent evaluation, not philosophy. Though I don't really agree with your implicit assertion that Rubio was a failed selection. The Ty Lawson trade shows why it's fine to select multiple players at a position: you can use depth as trade bait. Kahn simply made a terrible trade. I don't think Kahn is a particularly good GM, but not because he drafts for BPA.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I like how you add your $0.02, then proceed to trash the thread. Post of the day! :cheers:
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

That sounds like a failure of talent evaluation, not philosophy. Though I don't really agree with your implicit assertion that Rubio was a failed selection. The Ty Lawson trade shows why it's fine to select multiple players at a position: you can use depth as trade bait. Kahn simply made a terrible trade. I don't think Kahn is a particularly good GM, but not because he drafts for BPA.

Lawson has been the best of those three PGs three seasons after that draft. Kahn talked literally at the time about taking the "BPA", regardless of position. I agree with you saying the "BPA" is basically subjective; I've been posting that in my numerous posts in this thread.

Seems to me that talent evaluation/BPA go hand in hand, but I accept the premise of your semantics. Typically in a trade, I assume the end goal is to get the better player for a given situation. Clearly, Kahn failed miserably when he botched the Lawson trade. It remains to be seen if trading the 16th pick for Martell was a good move, but as of thus far, it isn't. It's impossible to evaluate the Budinger trade right now, other than to point out that statistically, Budinger really hasn't improved from his rookie season in terms of advanced statistics.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Seems to me that talent evaluation/BPA go hand in hand, but I accept the premise of your semantics.

I don't think my distinction was purely semantics, but you are right that they go hand-in-hand...going after BPA is kinda useless if you aren't capable of discerning who the "BPA" is.

My point was that I don't think Kahn's problems stem from being fixated on going after the BPA in his drafts. If he had selected three stud point guards, I don't consider that a problem...he could have kept the one that fit his team's system the best and other teams would have been happy to trade for his other point guards. The problem was that Flynn was a terrible choice (not remotely the BPA as it turns out), Rubio was a gamble that may still pay off but hasn't yet and he traded Lawson for a handful of non-magical beans.

I do think it's the right philosophy to target the most talented player still on the board, even if you already have a good player at the position, rather than targeting the highest player on your board at a specific position. Use the draft to collect the most talent, use trades and free agency to "balance out" the roster. However, if two or three possible draftees are close together in value, I don't have a problem with using need as a tie-breaker, essentially.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I don't think my distinction was purely semantics, but you are right that they go hand-in-hand...going after BPA is kinda useless if you aren't capable of discerning who the "BPA" is.

My point was that I don't think Kahn's problems stem from being fixated on going after the BPA in his drafts. If he had selected three stud point guards, I don't consider that a problem...he could have kept the one that fit his team's system the best and other teams would have been happy to trade for his other point guards. The problem was that Flynn was a terrible choice (not remotely the BPA as it turns out), Rubio was a gamble that may still pay off but hasn't yet and he traded Lawson for a handful of non-magical beans.

I do think it's the right philosophy to target the most talented player still on the board, even if you already have a good player at the position, rather than targeting the highest player on your board at a specific position. Use the draft to collect the most talent, use trades and free agency to "balance out" the roster. However, if two or three possible draftees are close together in value, I don't have a problem with using need as a tie-breaker, essentially.

I happen to think that evaluating the overwhelming majority of players in a draft is extremely difficult, and I assume that a team wouldn't draft a PG they have rated far lower than, say, a SF who may drop in a given draft. This is why I find the BPA argument a red herring, because BPA isn't a constant, and even when people think it is, it still isn't an exact science.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

To me, Lillard was the BPA. Now maybe I'm a fucking retard, but it seems like the people who actually make the decisions may have agreed with me.
I think the Blazers concluded Lillard was either better than or equal to Barnes, and at a position of greater need. I also think Lillard was the safer pick of the two. He won't be the next Jordan, but he's not likely to disappoint either. We're lucky to have him.

Note that on draft night Lillard was wearing Blazers red and black, right down to his socks. That was no coincidence.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I think the Blazers concluded Lillard was either better than or equal to Barnes, and at a position of greater need. I also think Lillard was the safer pick of the two. He won't be the next Jordan, but he's not likely to disappoint either. We're lucky to have him.

Note that on draft night Lillard was wearing Blazers red and black, right down to his socks. That was no coincidence.

You're right it wasn't a coincidence. His agent told him to wear them after knowing that it was the Blazers who were almost certain to pick him at 6.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

If Neil sees Lillard as a P&R guard I hope we develop Leonard in that type of system. With his size and leaping ability he'd thrive.
This is our future (yay!). Lillard and LaMarcus / Lillard and Leonard pick 'n roll/pick 'n pop, with Matthews/Batum/Babbitt hitting threes, and E-Will and Barton slashing to the rim. It's going to be more fun than Nate ball, win or lose.
 
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