Harrison Dang Diddily Do Damn Diddily Darn Barnes

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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Are we having one rally at Pioneer Courthouse Square to welcome both players or do they each get their own rally?
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I can think of very very few people on whom I would wish a painful death from cancer. And disagreeing with a draft pick hardly is enough motivation for such a wish.

It seems some folks are upset because the Blazers picked the players the media thought they would. Like they should pick someone else just so everyone can be surprised?

Agree with all who said if talent is exceptional you pick that player, but if talent is roughly equal you do go with need. I see no reason to think Barnes will be a megastar except for some on the board whoever Portland did NOT pick is automatically a superstar in waiting and everyone they DID pick is an automatic bust. And those people complain about homers. Homers can be annoying but not nearly as annoying as the constant negativity that pretends to be "critical" or "realism".

Been locked out since yesterday afternoon...finally back.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

SlyPokerDog said:
Are we having one rally at Pioneer Courthouse Square to welcome both players or do they each get their own rally?
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We're going streaking! We're going streaking through the quad and into the gymnasium. Come on, everybody!
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

BLAZINGGIANTS said:
We're going streaking! We're going streaking through the quad and into the gymnasium. Come on, everybody!
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Well, then, I guess we'll have a chance to see exactly how excited you are about these guys...
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
That could be the right answer, but disappointed was told something else. I was excited about just picking the BPA irrelevant of position. I really thought that was the best philosophy given this Blazer squad. That and Blazer have been burned by letting position factor into who to draft in the past. Heck if you ask them back then, they probably would justify that Chris Paul and Webster were in the same tier.
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Olshey said that Lilllard was one of two players on their board at #6 in terms of BPA, and they got their guy. I mean, I suppose he's lying, but your fixation with 'proving the media wrong' seems like a goofy way to run a draft.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

PapaG said:
Olshey said that Lilllard was one of two players on their board at #6 in terms of BPA, and they got their guy. I mean, I suppose he's lying, but your fixation with 'proving the media wrong' seems like a goofy way to run a draft.
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I don't think you should draft to prove the media wrong and for those who interpreted my posts that way don't understand what I'm trying to say.

Olshey unequivocally said that he drafts BPA and position is not a factor. The media was reporting that the Blaers were going to draft based on need and take a small and a big with the two draft picks. It seemed like everyone knew that. I thought the media was wrong because that is not what Olshey directly told told us fans. In the end the Blazers drafted a small and a big and even Olshey came out and said we got the two best players at those positions.

I understand the argument that maybe the Blazers did draft the 2 BPA. Unfortuantely some are so agreeing with the Blazers pick they don't see that there is an arguement that the Blazers let position play a role in determining who they were going to pick. Who knows who the BPA's are at 6 and 11 . . . but at the very least some would acknowledge that with Barnes slipping to 5 and Leonard being such a project, that maybe the Blazers didn't draft BPA and let position become a factor (which is what the media has been saying for the last few days . . . Blazers are drafting based on need).

Maybe drafting based on need (based on a tier system) is the smartest way to go, I don't agree but get that. And I don't think you should draft to surprise the media (that is just stupid). But I do think Olshey knew going into the draft that he was picking Lillard and Leonard no matter who slipped because he likes those players AND we need a PG and center. I was excited when he said position wasn't a factor in the draft because that is my drafting philosphy and was upset to learn (at least in my mind) that position was a factor in the draft last night.
 
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Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Remember how much better Matthews looked playing alongside Miller? We replaced Miller with Felton, and Matthews clearly struggled.

We draft Barnes instead of Lillard, and ask him to adjust from Mr Unselfish (Marshall) to whatever flotsam we have at PG next season. See the problem? (unless you are prepared to reach for Marshall at 11)

Some players can shine in almost any system. Others need the right system/team-mates to flourish. For *some* teams, Barnes might have been BPA. In Portland....not so much.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I don't think you should draft to prove the media wrong and for those who interpreted my posts that way don't understand what I'm trying to say.

Olshey unequivocally said that he drafts BPA and position is not a factor. The media was reporting that the Blaers were going to draft based on need and take a small and a big with the two draft picks. It seemed like everyone knew that. I thought the media was wrong because that is not what Olshey directly told told us fans. In the end the Blazers drafted a small and a big and even Olshey came out and said we got the two best players at those positions.

I understand the argument that maybe the Blazers did draft the 2 BPA. Unfortuantely some are so agreeing with the Blazers pick they don't see that there is an arguement that the Blazers let position play a role in determining who they were going to pick. Who knows who the BPA's are at 6 and 11 . . . but at the very least some would acknowledge that with Barnes slipping to 5 and Leonard being such a project, that maybe the Blazers didn't draft BPA and let position become a factor (which is what the media has been saying for the last few days . . . Blazers are drafting based on need).

Maybe drafting based on need (based on a tier system) is the smartest way to go, I don't agree but get that. And I don't think you should draft to surprise the media (that is just stupid). But I do think Olshey knew going into the draft that he was picking Lillard and Leonard no matter who slipped because he likes those players AND we need a PG and center. I was excited when he said position wasn't a factor in the draft because that is my drafting philosphy and was upset to learn (at least in my mind) that position was a factor in the draft last night.
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Pretty sure every team last night prior to about pick #20 was drafting the exact same way we did. Cleveland fans are in an UPROAR that they drafted Waiters over T-Rob, even though they already had Tristan Thompson. And you know what happened two days ago? Rumors were swirling that they would take Waiters.
Toronto took Ross, who clearly is a tier below Drummond, because they already had Bargnani and have a gap at the 2/3 (talk of them moving DeRozan to the 3).

I just don't understand your shock - and lets be clear. Olshey (from what I remember) didn't say position NEVER plays a factor. He stated that you draft BPA based on the tier class. So if you have a player from tier 1 on the board, despite what position they play, you take him. If you have a player on tier 2, and you were expecting to draft a tier 2 player, you draft the player that fills a need, all things being equal.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

OregonHuskerMan said:
Pretty sure every team last night prior to about pick #20 was drafting the exact same way we did. Cleveland fans are in an UPROAR that they drafted Waiters over T-Rob, even though they already had Tristan Thompson. And you know what happened two days ago? Rumors were swirling that they would take Waiters.
Toronto took Ross, who clearly is a tier below Drummond, because they already had Bargnani and have a gap at the 2/3 (talk of them moving DeRozan to the 3).

I just don't understand your shock - and lets be clear. Olshey (from what I remember) didn't say position NEVER plays a factor. He stated that you draft BPA based on the tier class. So if you have a player from tier 1 on the board, despite what position they play, you take him. If you have a player on tier 2, and you were expecting to draft a tier 2 player, you draft the player that fills a need, all things being equal.
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Don't have time to go back and look but pretty sure he said position would not be a factor when drafting and never spoke in terms of tiers. Maybe he had another interview saying what you said, I was refering to his initial interview after being hired.

I get the tier thing, just don't agree (Experts in the field should be able to break down players within a tier).

Shocked because like an idiot I bought what Olshey was selling the day he did his intro interview. Blazers are not rebuilding, they will draft BPA regardless of position or age (as I remembered it) and Kaleb is his guy. I think he was feeding us fan a good old fashion sales pitch and didn't appreciate it. Maybe I'm way off here and the fact Quick and Canzano feel the same way doesn't mean it is true . . . but it's not like it is out of left field that I say Olshey is a salesman making his sales pitch to the Blzaer fans. I'm going a bit futher to say the sales pitch wasn't sincere . .. but that is just how I feel.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
Don't have time to go back and look but pretty sure he said position would not be a factor when drafting and never spoke in terms of tiers. Maybe he had another interview saying what you said, I was refering to his initial interview after being hired.

I get the tier thing, just don't agree (Experts in the field should be able to break down players within a tier).

Shocked because like an idiot I bought what Olshey was selling the day he did his intro interview. Blazers are not rebuilding, they will draft BPA regardless of position or age (as I remembered it) and Kaleb is his guy. I think he was feeding us fan a good old fashion sales pitch and didn't appreciate it. Maybe I'm way off here and the fact Quick and Canzano feel the same way doesn't mean it is true . . . but it's not like it is out of left field that I say Olshey is a salesman making his sales pitch to the Blzaer fans. I'm going a bit futher to say the sales pitch wasn't sincere . .. but that is just how I feel.
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I'm just confused by this.... because IMO, Blazers did draft BPA. And there's no evidence that suggests Portland felt any differently. There are a lot of people who don't think Barnes will be more than an average starting SF (I expect he'll be better than that, but I think Lillard will be Terry Porter 2.0 eventually).
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I get Treaty's focusing on Olshey saying one thing and then doing another, but what I don't understand is why this one point matters so much? I mean we all know these guys say a million things they don't exactly mean -- every team's front-office people says they only take the best player(s) -- what they forget to mention is that they usually are taking what they consider the best player(s) for their particular team; this decision is always made with needs in mind whether they say it or not.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Nikolokolus said:
I get Treaty's focusing on Olshey saying one thing and then doing another, but what I don't understand is why this one point matters so much? I mean we all know these guys say a million things they don't exactly mean -- every team's front-office people says they only take the best player(s) -- what they forget to mention is that they usually are taking what they consider the best player(s) for their particular team; this decision is always made with needs in mind whether they say it or not.
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But he is not doing that at all.

When Olshey was hired he laid out his tier philosophy. He said that he would always draft a higher tiered player regardless of their position, but then said if two guys are on the board in the same tier, he would draft the player that fits position need best. I assume that he had Lillard ranked on the same tier as Barnes (I did anyway?) And probably the same for Leonard. If you look at guys we passed on to get Leonard, they all have huge question marks. I'm not sure what the hubub is all about?
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Nikolokolus said:
I get Treaty's focusing on Olshey saying one thing and then doing another, but what I don't understand is why this one point matters so much? I mean we all know these guys say a million things they don't exactly mean -- every team's front-office people says they only take the best player(s) -- what they forget to mention is that they usually are taking what they consider the best player(s) for their particular team; this decision is always made with needs in mind whether they say it or not.
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I guess I don't understand why people think Olshey said one thing and did another. I'm not saying it didn't happen - maybe it did. Or maybe Olshey did exactly as he said and did draft the BPA.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

oldmangrouch said:
Remember how much better Matthews looked playing alongside Miller? We replaced Miller with Felton, and Matthews clearly struggled.

We draft Barnes instead of Lillard, and ask him to adjust from Mr Unselfish (Marshall) to whatever flotsam we have at PG next season. See the problem? (unless you are prepared to reach for Marshall at 11)

Some players can shine in almost any system. Others need the right system/team-mates to flourish. For *some* teams, Barnes might have been BPA. In Portland....not so much.
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This was a REALLY good point that should not be ignored. Barnes really was a different player after Marshall's injury. However, I also would not have objected to Marshall at 11...
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Mediocre Man said:
But he is not doing that at all.

When Olshey was hired he laid out his tier philosophy. He said that he would always draft a higher tiered player regardless of their position, but then said if two guys are on the board in the same tier, he would draft the player that fits position need best. I assume that he had Lillard ranked on the same tier as Barnes (I did anyway?) And probably the same for Leonard. If you look at guys we passed on to get Leonard, they all have huge question marks. I'm not sure what the hubub is all about?
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BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I guess I don't understand why people think Olshey said one thing and did another. I'm not saying it didn't happen - maybe it did. Or maybe Olshey did exactly as he said and did draft the BPA.
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Honestly I didn't remember him mentioning tiers ... if he did then I'm wrong about him "lying" and Treaty is way off.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I guess I don't understand why people think Olshey said one thing and did another. I'm not saying it didn't happen - maybe it did. Or maybe Olshey did exactly as he said and did draft the BPA.
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I admit that is a possiblity, I just don't buy it. That is the only reason I point to the media . . . they were so convinced that the Blazers would draft on need base and I kept wondering why they were saying that. Zeller went as far as to say that according to his agent, if Blazers draft a PG with the 6th pick they will pick a center with the 11th pick.

I don't know. Maybe it was BPA . . . but if Nik's point is right and you can't belive what GMs say to their fans, why are you so convinced it was BPA?
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Nikolokolus said:
Honestly I didn't remember him mentioning tiers ... if he did then I'm wrong about him "lying" and Treaty is way off.
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It was either his introduction, or in his interview with MB and Wheels right afterward.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I admit that is a possiblity, I just don't buy it. That is the only reason I point to the media . . . they were so convinced that the Blazers would draft on need base and I kept wondering why they were saying that. Zeller went as far as to say that according to his agent, if Blazers draft a PG with the 6th pick they will pick a center with the 11th pick.

I don't know. Maybe it was BPA . . . but if Nik's point is right and you can't belive what GMs say to their fans, why are you so convinced it was BPA?
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I'm convinced that it's plausible that Lilliard and Leonard were the best (not necessarily safest) picks at their spot. That's good enough for me.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Mediocre Man said:
It was either his introduction, or in his interview with MB and Wheels right afterward.
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Thank you, MM. I don't want to put forth the effort to find it, but I know he mentioned tiers at some point. Never pass on a Tier 1 for a tier 2, and draft need over all else in a tier.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

OregonHuskerMan said:
Thank you, MM. I don't want to put forth the effort to find it, but I know he mentioned tiers at some point. Never pass on a Tier 1 for a tier 2, and draft need over all else in a tier.
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Yes, that was it
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I admit that is a possiblity, I just don't buy it. That is the only reason I point to the media . . . they were so convinced that the Blazers would draft on need base and I kept wondering why they were saying that. Zeller went as far as to say that according to his agent, if Blazers draft a PG with the 6th pick they will pick a center with the 11th pick.

I don't know. Maybe it was BPA . . . but if Nik's point is right and you can't belive what GMs say to their fans, why are you so convinced it was BPA?
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I'm not "so convinced" in regards to Olshey's thoughts, and whether or not the guys we drafted were BPA - I even said so in my post that you're responding to.

IMO, Lillard was the BPA. So I just naturally had a belief that Olshey would have felt Lillard was the BPA. I had no reason to think otherwise (this is very common with humans, in general - when things look/smell/sound the way we expect, we don't question them).
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

OregonHuskerMan said:
Thank you, MM. I don't want to put forth the effort to find it, but I know he mentioned tiers at some point. Never pass on a Tier 1 for a tier 2, and draft need over all else in a tier.
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I, too, remember something on this.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

Treaty_of_Batum said:
I admit that is a possiblity, I just don't buy it. That is the only reason I point to the media . . . they were so convinced that the Blazers would draft on need base and I kept wondering why they were saying that.
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You seem to be assuming that the media correctly predicted the picks based on considering need. Perhaps they correctly predicted the picks because they had good information on whom Olshey liked (as BPA)? Of course, if that's true, it's not a terribly great thing that Olshey had no secrets, since that can at times cost you a competitive advantage...fortunately, there was no trade action, so it really wasn't much of an issue.
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I'm not "so convinced" in regards to Olshey's thoughts, and whether or not the guys we drafted were BPA - I even said so in my post that you're responding to.

IMO, Lillard was the BPA. So I just naturally had a belief that Olshey would have felt Lillard was the BPA. I had no reason to think otherwise (this is very common with humans, in general - when things look/smell/sound the way we expect, we don't question them).
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That is why I bring up the media. They were predicting that the Blazers would pick a PG. Zeller went as far as to say he heard from his agent that the Blazers would pick one small and one big. He said that a day or two before the draft and that sounds like drafting based on need to me. So if Blazers picked BPA, jut coincidence it was a small and a big?
 
Re: Harrison FUCKING Barnes

I'm pretty sure that Barnes was not even in the top two for Olshey. He indicated in one interview they had two guys (in the same tier) that they wanted at 6 and that their second choice (after Lillard), was already gone when they picked 6 (Waiters?). If the draft would have gone Davis, MKG, Beal, Robinson, Lillard, I would bet money that Blazers would have taken Waiters and passed on Barnes too.
 
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