Has Summer League changed your opinion?

[Rastapopoulos]

Now we've seen every game in Portland's SL, I'll give my take.

I found Summer League a bit depressing. Yeah yeah, it's Summer League, counts for nothing. Fine, if you think that, why are you even reading this thread? Why did you even bother to watch any?

GRANTED that it's just SL, I was hoping for more. At least Vonleh was consistent, though, because just as with the team last season, when we stopped playing Vonleh the team actually looked pretty good and won a game.

Vonleh had clearly worked hard and came out with something to prove... but I don't see it. He looked a step slow. There were rookies out there who looked more comfortable, and he's been in the league 2 years. He just doesn't seem to be a natural. He has to think too much rather than playing instinctively. I'm as pessimistic about him as ever. (And this is not just because we lost Batum for him, despite what some seem to think.)

Connaughton was also depressing, although he was at least just a throw in when we got Plumlee (who I've totally come around on after his excellent playoffs and surprising passing game). If he was three inches taller he'd be a poor man's Kevin Love and a great small-ball 4. But there's a limit to how small small-ball can go. Supposedly he was killing it shooting in practice, and he had a good game the last game when there was no Vonleh to force-feed the ball to... but if he was cut tomorrow I wouldn't cry. I think his value is he's a great teammate and he seems to act as a coach on the floor (he was doing a LOT of pointing out there).

Montero? Ton of talent, but too spindly and too sloppy. If somebody could turn him into a defensive stopper then he'd have value, but right now he deserves zero minutes. (And he's no teenager, despite playing like one.)

Layman looked solid, especially for a mid second rounder. I like Niang better, and he was taken later, but Layman might be a more useful rotation player and is certainly more athletic. If I had to pick one player to keep it would be Layman, no question (especially with the Harkless uncertainty).

I know people lumped Russ Smith and Pierre Jackson into one player, but Jackson was a LOT better. He was actually passing the ball out there (although not as much as you'd like). If anything he looked better than Shabazz, although he never really got a chance. Shabazz has a guaranteed contract, though, so he'll probably stay, but I'd give Jackson a shot in training camp for sure.

Alexander still intrigues me, especially with the lighter frame, and perhaps more than Vonleh. But he's another one who really seems to lack a feel for the game. If he had one he could be Ben Wallace.

Anyone else? Fair had one good game but it seems to have been a fluke.

So, my summary: Keep Layman, give Alexander and Jackson a shot in training camp, keep Connaughton as a Patty-esque towel waiver if we've got an open slot, don't care about anyone else.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

My take: none of the people on our summer league team will sniff a minute of time in the playoffs unless we are up or down by 30. And that's okay.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Now we've seen every game in Portland's SL, I'll give my take.

I found Summer League a bit depressing. Yeah yeah, it's Summer League, counts for nothing. Fine, if you think that, why are you even reading this thread? Why did you even bother to watch any?

GRANTED that it's just SL, I was hoping for more. At least Vonleh was consistent, though, because just as with the team last season, when we stopped playing Vonleh the team actually looked pretty good and won a game.

Vonleh had clearly worked hard and came out with something to prove... but I don't see it. He looked a step slow. There were rookies out there who looked more comfortable, and he's been in the league 2 years. He just doesn't seem to be a natural. He has to think too much rather than playing instinctively. I'm as pessimistic about him as ever. (And this is not just because we lost Batum for him, despite what some seem to think.)

Connaughton was also depressing, although he was at least just a throw in when we got Plumlee (who I've totally come around on after his excellent playoffs and surprising passing game). If he was three inches taller he'd be a poor man's Kevin Love and a great small-ball 4. But there's a limit to how small small-ball can go. Supposedly he was killing it shooting in practice, and he had a good game the last game when there was no Vonleh to force-feed the ball to... but if he was cut tomorrow I wouldn't cry. I think his value is he's a great teammate and he seems to act as a coach on the floor (he was doing a LOT of pointing out there).

Montero? Ton of talent, but too spindly and too sloppy. If somebody could turn him into a defensive stopper then he'd have value, but right now he deserves zero minutes. (And he's no teenager, despite playing like one.)

Layman looked solid, especially for a mid second rounder. I like Niang better, and he was taken later, but Layman might be a more useful rotation player and is certainly more athletic. If I had to pick one player to keep it would be Layman, no question (especially with the Harkless uncertainty).

I know people lumped Russ Smith and Pierre Jackson into one player, but Jackson was a LOT better. He was actually passing the ball out there (although not as much as you'd like). If anything he looked better than Shabazz, although he never really got a chance. Shabazz has a guaranteed contract, though, so he'll probably stay, but I'd give Jackson a shot in training camp for sure.

Alexander still intrigues me, especially with the lighter frame, and perhaps more than Vonleh. But he's another one who really seems to lack a feel for the game. If he had one he could be Ben Wallace.

Anyone else? Fair had one good game but it seems to have been a fluke.

So, my summary: Keep Layman, give Alexander and Jackson a shot in training camp, keep Connaughton as a Patty-esque towel waiver if we've got an open slot, don't care about anyone else.

Good post and I agree with most of it. Points of disagreement would be the following:

Fair seemed to have a few good games, not just one. Layman didn't look lost, but didn't look any more ready than Pat.

Other than that, like you said, I was generally dissapointed. I expected more out of Vonleh even though he got his double doubles. He was never the best player on the court, and I thought we would see that at least a couple times this summer. I also thought for as many wide open shots as Pat had, he should have made a few more. I would have liked to see Pat wi the ball in his hands a\s point more. I know this is off the wall, but his size would make for a very intimidating PG. I cant tell how his dribble really is though. Seems decent the few times I watched him. Can he dribble in traffic and in a full sprint?


Too bad Jackson isnt a couple inches taller. For how short he is, his court vision seemed to be off the charts. I saw more than one assist that was showtime worthy in the NBA.

I Think Montero fell victim to Smith and Jackson eating up so much ball time. I don't think Montero is very good at assisted spot up shooting. He seems to be better off the dribble. Id would have loved to see him played more in the old Batum, facilitator role and I think he would have had more of an impact and a better SL.

 

[BonesJones]

Good post and I agree with most of it. Points of disagreement would be the following:

Fair seemed to have a few good games, not just one. Layman didn't look lost, but didn't look any more ready than Pat.

Other than that, like you said, I was generally dissapointed. I expected more out of Vonleh even though he got his double doubles. He was never the best player on the court, and I thought we would see that at least a couple times this summer. I also thought for as many wide open shots as Pat had, he should have made a few more. I would have liked to see Pat wi the ball in his hands a\s point more. I know this is off the wall, but his size would make for a very intimidating PG. I cant tell how his dribble really is though. Seems decent the few times I watched him. Can he dribble in traffic and in a full sprint?


Too bad Jackson isnt a couple inches taller. For how short he is, his court vision seemed to be off the charts. I saw more than one assist that was showtime worthy in the NBA.

I Think Montero fell victim to Smith and Jackson eating up so much ball time. I don't think Montero is very good at assisted spot up shooting. He seems to be better off the dribble. Id would have loved to see him played more in the old Batum, facilitator role and I think he would have had more of an impact and a better SL.

Patty can't play PG. He has the dribble and passing ability of your average PF.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Patty can't play PG. He has the dribble and passing ability of your average PF.

Gotcha. Turner probablyh better at that then, eh?

It would just be nice to nail down a true back up PG that is a bigger, imposing force than CJ/Napier.

 

[Dougnsalem]

I know people lumped Russ Smith and Pierre Jackson into one player, but Jackson was a LOT better.

Huh? There were two guys? I thought the dudes name was Russ Jackson...

 

[Pinwheel1]

I was pleasantly surprised with Layman.
Montero looked better in the D league
Connaunghton......still not sure if he can be a 3 and D player. Certainly not there now.

Vonleh is really the only one I care about. Like Ben Simmons, his level of success in the NBA will hinge on his ability to hit a mid range jumper on a consistent basis. He hit a few 3's but I really don't want him taking that many. He needs to try his best to pattern his game after Z-Bo. Master the 12-15 footer and it will open his drive. He shows flashes of being a solid player, but he has to have a consistent jumper.

On the bright side he still has 3 solid months to work on it, but if they have him spending all his time shooting 24 feet from the basket, it will be a mistake IMO. Let him work up to that.

 

[BonesJones]

Gotcha. Turner probablyh better at that then, eh?

It would just be nice to nail down a true back up PG that is a bigger, imposing force than CJ/Napier.

Turner is so much better. It's not even a fair comparison to be honest.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Nope. Still want Oscar gone

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I was pleasantly surprised with Layman.
Montero looked better in the D league
Connaunghton......still not sure if he can be a 3 and D player. Certainly not there now.

Vonleh is really the only one I care about. Like Ben Simmons, his level of success in the NBA will hinge on his ability to hit a mid range jumper on a consistent basis. He hit a few 3's but I really don't want him taking that many. He needs to try his best to pattern his game after Z-Bo. Master the 12-15 footer and it will open his drive. He shows flashes of being a solid player, but he has to have a consistent jumper.

On the bright side he still has 3 solid months to work on it, but if they have him spending all his time shooting 24 feet from the basket, it will be a mistake IMO. Let him work up to that.

Z-Bo is the player I see Vonleh as LEAST like. Z-Bo shouldn't really have succeeded in the league. He looks totally wrong: can't jump, giant head but tiny Trump-like hands. But he is such an instinctive player that he somehow gets away with it. He knows where to be and gets there before more athletic players. Vonleh, on the other hand, looks like the kind of player who looks good in pre-draft one-on-none settings but just never puts it together in games.

 

[ripcityboy]

I basically watched it to see if Pat, Montero or Vonleh would show something. But they didn't show enough to push for playing time. Noah is only 20 so he could still make some headway. But Pat is deluding himself if he thinks hell be an NBA player. Montero will tease you and then do something questionable I think Layman Mas the best chance of breaking through.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Z-Bo is the player I see Vonleh as LEAST like. Z-Bo shouldn't really have succeeded in the league. He looks totally wrong: can't jump, giant head but tiny Trump-like hands. But he is such an instinctive player that he somehow gets away with it. He knows where to be and gets there before more athletic players. Vonleh, on the other hand, looks like the kind of player who looks good in pre-draft one-on-none settings but just never puts it together in games.

Yeah that's kind of why I said Vonleh needs to try his best on patterning his game after him Zach. Every young player needs a goal. Zach's on court game is a good goal for Noah, regardless if he ever reaches it. I will be happy with just the mid range jumper..

 

[Natebishop3]

I didn't see anything that led me to believe that any of these players will be in the rotation.

Vonleh looks like he matured a bit, but he still looks raw.

Montero has flashes of brilliance... but that's like 5% of the time. The other 95% looks bad.

Layman looks promising, but he's maybe a couple years away from contributing.

Connaughton is probably the most disappointing for me. I just don't see a rotation player. He screams "practice squad."

 

[riverman]

Summer league showed me one thing this season...I'd rather watch baseball

 

[e_blazer]

I saw a bunch of raw players who won't have much of a role this year. That didn't change my opinion that the new FAs the Blazers acquired, who will play this year, will make the team better than last year.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I've never though Connaughton had a future in this league and he's done nothing to change that. Layman might be able to play in the league if he can play decent defense, but I think he's gonna have a hard time guarding real NBA players. He's not slow but I don't think he's quick enough to guard 3s and I don't know if he's big/athletic enough to rebound with 4s. And a pretty looking shot doesn't always translate to making NBA threes.

I still like Montero as our 14th/15th man.. What's the harm? He obviously still has potential. I feel the same about Vonleh, he should only play in the case of injury but he still has potential.

I don't really care about the point guards, I assume Napier will have even less playing time than Frazier did last season.

I'm not intrigued by Alexander at all.

 

[PDXFonz]

I was disappointed as well, mainly because there were games last season where Vonleh played better than he did in any summer league game this year.

Layman was a definite bright spot this year though. Stats wise he didn't do anything spectacular, but as many have said - his form looks great, he moves around well, and seems to be aware on defense.

I agree with e_blazer for the most part. I don't think many of the SL guys will see a lot of action this season. I think Vonleh will have a reduced role this year as well...But a lot of that has to do with the fact that Meyers is healthy.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm not trying to make comparisons where there aren't any, and I didn't see a second of footage, but what did Patty Ice not do in SL that Will Barton, Patty Mills, Allen Crabbe recently did? AFAIK, we've never really had a steady PG in SL, and the catch-and-shoot guys have always taken a backseat. Did he look that bad?

(Granted, my expectations are for a guy that, if everything works out, may dress for some games. I'm not talking Chandler Parsons or Chase Budinger yet)

 

[Sinobas]

I was hoping for a better showing from the projects on our roster. But none of them impressed me. But I was low on all of them in the first place. But I think Layman showed a bit of promise by displaying athleticism. And I think he's shot is actually better than he showed in the SL. Low sample size, and they just didn't go in. But he can be a good player.

 

[Strenuus]

Why should I try to assess 3/4ths of the players that won't even play on our team?

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not trying to make comparisons where there aren't any, and I didn't see a second of footage, but what did Patty Ice not do in SL that Will Barton, Patty Mills, Allen Crabbe recently did? AFAIK, we've never really had a steady PG in SL, and the catch-and-shoot guys have always taken a backseat. Did he look that bad?

(Granted, my expectations are for a guy that, if everything works out, may dress for some games. I'm not talking Chandler Parsons or Chase Budinger yet)

Yeah. I was going to post something like, "how did Crabbe look 3 summers ago, and 2 summers ago?"

 

[riverman]

Pat C will eventually become an NBA role player if only because of his drive and athleticism. I'm hoping he'll look better with better players around him...he seems high strung...maybe over anxious. Probably needs to decompress when he gets some burn and not force his game...let the game come to him. He seems like a bright guy who will figure it out in time. Layman seems more laid back and lets the game come to him...gets good position for an undersized 4.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I was disappointed as well, mainly because there were games last season where Vonleh played better than he did in any summer league game this year.

Yeah but remember we are looking at all these guys as potential role players. So it is hard to compare what they do in summer league where they are the main scoring threat, to what they did (or will do) during the regular season surrounded by great shooters.
Vonleh will not be asked to play the same role when Dame, CJ, ET and Crabbe are on the floor.

Also I think there is a misconception about the defense played in summer league. It's not that bad when you consider there are players out there with no offensive skills busting their asses off trying to get noticed with pure hustle. In the regular season most of the NBA players coast on D until the 4th.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Nope, I skip summer league every year and then think the next year will be better and I will wish I'd gone. Still don't wish I'd gone.

 

[theprunetang]

Nope, I skip summer league every year and then think the next year will be better and I will wish I'd gone. Still don't wish I'd gone.

We may disagree on other things, but I am right there with you on this.

 

[PDXFonz]

Going to summer league is something I wan't to do one day. Not just for the game on the court, there always seems to be a solid group of pro players who show up every year to watch their teams. Whiteside was there this year, obviously our players, then there's the coaches as well.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

My take: none of the people on our summer league team will sniff a minute of time in the playoffs unless we are up or down by 30. And that's okay.

Gee. Way to take a real risk.

I'm being sarcastic, obviously (not trying to be a dick, despite the way my first line is presented). What you're saying is a pretty safe bet. That's exactly what happened this year, and I expect no different this season, based on our current roster, the SL roster and their experience, and the performance of those guys during SL. Layman, to me, is the one guy with a chance to contribute this season.

 

[handiman]

what did Patty Ice not do in SL that Will Barton, Patty Mills, Allen Crabbe recently did? AFAIK, we've never really had a steady PG in SL, and the catch-and-shoot guys have always taken a backseat.

That Lillard character was pretty steady.

 

[riverman]

That Lillard character was pretty steady.

So were CJ, Nolan Smith and Allen Crabbe...this year just sucked and mostly because of pt guards chucking bad shots without passing the ball

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yeah. I was going to post something like, "how did Crabbe look 3 summers ago, and 2 summers ago?"

Young. So unlike everyone this year other than Vonleh and Cliff.