Politics Hawaii Ballistic Missile Inbound Warning (NOT TRUE)

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barfo said:
Got it, thanks.

Is keeping the missile together on reentry a hard problem? I'm not a rocket man (little or otherwise) but it seems to me that's a problem that was solved many decades ago, and I assume NK knows how it was solved. But maybe it's harder to accomplish in practice than I imagine?

barfo
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Correct. It's a basic engineering problem that I'm sure you can understand with a car analogy. Let's say your car has a 10-gallon gas tank and you get 20mpg average. You have a range of 200 miles, plus or minus. Let's say that you have to drive somewhere 300 miles away with no gas station enroute. So you start lightening the load...take all the junk out of the trunk, inflate the tires, strip out the passenger seat, etc. At some point, though, you start messing with the structural stability and engine performance of the car ("radiator? Who needs that heavy piece of junk?").

A missile is already, almost by definition, engineered to be a flying gas tank for the warhead. There isn't a lot of spare stuff involved. So designers try to do things like thin out the skin, or reduce the complexity of control valves, or remove cooling apparati, or whatever. (Caveat: I don't have intricate details of NK missile design, classified or not, so this is all speculation). But it's not trivial to go from having a "successful" missile that goes 2000km or so (the February test) to 13000km. Especially when dealing with temperatures on reentry at roughly Mach 10 to Mach 15 or so. That's the equivalent of having that 200mi-ranged car go to 1300 mi, but with jet engines on the back. I'm not saying they can't (enough fuel, big enough tank, sure, it may get propelled pretty far) but there's nothing talking about guidance (they just hit their own damned city, for goodness's sake) or warhead integrity or QA or ...

If you'd like, there's some fascinating (to me, at least) reading on Werner Von Braun and the rocket programs he was running for almost 4 decades. Lots and lots of failures, even with literal geniuses working all over the programs.
 
BrianFromWA said:
"Hey, Captain Q, get your ass to sea." And Captain Q doesn't say "Sorry, boss...my crew is tired and junior and unqualified" he says "Yes, sir." And proceeds to kill 17 sailors colliding with a big-ass ship.
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This ain't funny! I chuckled but this ain't funny.
More ships man! More ships.
 
Complete failure by a dangerously incompetent State government. Why are states allowed to have anything to do with national defense? Especially a state that deliberately violates Federal laws that are designed to protect the US from dangerous foreign invaders?
 
BrianFromWA said:
Captain Q doesn't say "Sorry, boss...my crew is tired and junior and unqualified" he says "Yes, sir." And proceeds to kill 17 sailors colliding with a big-ass ship.
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It it hard to imagine sailing in the straits of Malacca and not getting run down if the crew doesn't know what they are about. But this also seem like the skipper should not be the skipper. I was only there a couple of times and it was apparent to most of us to be paying attention. Man the ship traffic there is intense! The Captain was on the bridge damn near the whole time. I felt rather sorry for him, or maybe it was in awe of him, hell I only had to stand a 4 hour watch.

But there are or were other intense places too. I was thinking about this on my recent trip down the West Coast an even more recent, into San Pedro/Long Beach. We do not have any where near the ship traffic in and out of the major West Coast ports like in days gone by. I only saw one ship
while entering and leaving San Francisco and again only one on my trip to LA. Sort of nice for a singlehander but dang, we don't ship anything anymore!

I would have thought Walmart would require more ships than that, just to stock the junk they sell from China.
 
My hairiest moments as OOD weren't in the shipping lanes per se, as everyone seems to know the rules inside the lane (or are on autopilot).

It's the daysailers, surfboarders, fishing boats, etc that have caused me a lot of problems. Except this one time surfacing off Pearl...
 
http://time.com/5103320/hawaii-missile-test-worker-reassigned/

“All we will say is that the individual has been temporarily reassigned within our Emergency Operations Center pending the outcome of our internal investigation, and it is currently in a role that does not provide access to the warning system,” Rapoza said.
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So, uh, you mess up pretty badly, badly enough to get the President on the phone and your representative riled up, you get reassigned to a place where you can't (allegedly) do as much damage...and you keep getting a paycheck from the taxpayers. Sweet.
 
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BrianFromWA said:
fishing boats,
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Oh man the fishing boats! Especially the Crabbers and their damn pots. It's like a sea full of Sailboat traps.
Back in the days of Formosa Patrol (Taiwan Strait), we were in among the fishing boats a lot of the time. I think it was inevitable that we finally
ran one over one dark and stormy night. We picked up two survivors but not all I guess.
Shit there were a million of them out there waving spears at us for the next few days or so.
 
lawai'a said:
...all federal and state government employees were sent home and told to go be with your families. it doesn't get more real than that.
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Real defeatism for sure.

But no Federal workers were sent home. Feds knew all along the state had fucked up.

And very telling of the mindset of the elected people living off your taxes who didn't think to buy a "CANCEL ALARM' button when they bought an "ALARM" button. They're side by side on the same shelf at Radio Shack.

Seems like you deserve better state leadership.

Total incompetence.

Tick tock of terror: Timeline of Hawaii missile alert snafu

A

HONOLULU (AP) -- The missile threat mistakenly sent Saturday by Hawaii officials came just a few minutes after a shift change at state Emergency Operations Center in Diamond Head Crater. Here's a timeline of what happened:

8:05 a.m. - Workers initiate routine test of the emergency alert system.

8:07 a.m. - A worker mistakenly hits the button to send the emergency warning reading: "BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL."

8:10 a.m. - The head of the Emergency Management Agency, state adjutant general Maj. Gen. Joe Logan, confirms with U.S. Pacific Command that there was no missile launch. Honolulu police are notified of the false alarm.

8:13 a.m. - The state issues a cancellation that prevents the message from being sent to phones that hadn't previously received, such as those out of cellphone coverage range or who had phones turned off.

8:20 a.m. - The Emergency Management Agency issues public notification of cancellation on Facebook and Twitter.

8:24 a.m. - Gov. David Ige retweets the cancellation notice.

8:30 a.m. - Ige posts cancellation notice on his Facebook page.

8:45 a.m. - Cancellation of warning sent to cell phones: "There is no missile threat or danger to the State of Hawaii. Repeat. False Alarm." The state said it issued the cancellation after getting authorization to do so from the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

---

Source: Hawaii Emergency Management Agency

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...LINE?SITE=NELIN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
 
Some had this blunt message for the governor's office: In the wake of this mistake, heads should roll.

"What happened today is totally inexcusable. The whole state was terrified," said U.S. Sen. Brian Schatz, D-Hawaii, on Twitter. "There needs to be tough and quick accountability and a fixed process."

U.S. Sen. Mazie Hirono, D-Hawaii, said the state needs to "get to the bottom of what happened and make sure it never happens again."

U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii, said Hawaii residents "just got a sense of the stark reality of what a nuclear strike" would look like.

"The people of Hawaii experienced that in 15 minutes they and their families are going to be dead. Gone. That's what they just went through," she said, on Twitter.

... it took state emergency management — which sent out the message in the first place — 38 minutes to send out a "false alarm" alert to cell phones using the same mechanism that distributed the emergency warning in the first place.

"I can't believe if someone pushed the wrong button accidentally that it would take 38 minutes to correct it," said U.S. Rep. Colleen Hanabusa, D-Hawaii.

"This system we have been told to rely upon failed and failed miserably today," said state House Speaker Scott Saiki, D. "I am deeply troubled by this misstep that could have had dire consequences."

State Senate Majority Leader Kalani English, D said the false alarm was "unfortunate and very unacceptable." "I am outraged that a mistake of this magnitude occurred," he said, in a statement. "The panic and pandemonium that many in Hawaii experienced was unwarranted and completely unnecessary."

The governor confirmed Saturday that the alarm was the result of human error.

"The alarm was sent out in error, and we know that the procedure in a shift change had been followed, and a human error sent out the false alarm," Governor Ige, D told Hawaii News Now.

Gee, I wonDer where the incompetence is coming from...:dunno:
 
MARIS61 said:
Real defeatism for sure.

But no Federal workers were sent home. Feds knew all along the state had fucked up.

And very telling of the mindset of the elected people living off your taxes who didn't think to buy a "CANCEL ALARM' button when they bought an "ALARM" button. They're side by side on the same shelf at Radio Shack.

Seems like you deserve better state leadership.

Total incompetence.

Tick tock of terror: Timeline of Hawaii missile alert snafu

A

HONOLULU (AP) -- The missile threat mistakenly sent Saturday by Hawaii officials came just a few minutes after a shift change at state Emergency Operations Center in Diamond Head Crater. Here's a timeline of what happened:

8:05 a.m. - Workers initiate routine test of the emergency alert system.

8:07 a.m. - A worker mistakenly hits the button to send the emergency warning reading: "BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL."

8:10 a.m. - The head of the Emergency Management Agency, state adjutant general Maj. Gen. Joe Logan, confirms with U.S. Pacific Command that there was no missile launch. Honolulu police are notified of the false alarm.

8:13 a.m. - The state issues a cancellation that prevents the message from being sent to phones that hadn't previously received, such as those out of cellphone coverage range or who had phones turned off.

8:20 a.m. - The Emergency Management Agency issues public notification of cancellation on Facebook and Twitter.

8:24 a.m. - Gov. David Ige retweets the cancellation notice.

8:30 a.m. - Ige posts cancellation notice on his Facebook page.

8:45 a.m. - Cancellation of warning sent to cell phones: "There is no missile threat or danger to the State of Hawaii. Repeat. False Alarm." The state said it issued the cancellation after getting authorization to do so from the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

---

Source: Hawaii Emergency Management Agency

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...LINE?SITE=NELIN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
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your wrong about the federal employees. my wife is one and was sent home.
edit-along with all 70 of her coworkers
 
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lawai'a said:
your wrong about the federal employees. my wife is one and was sent home.
edit-along with all 70 of her coworkers
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Link? :dunno:

I find no mention of it anywhere and since Federal agencies are not under Hawaii State agencies I doubt they would even have been directly contacted by the state.

Also, most Federal employees are vets, and many have official duties in times of emergency that would preclude any such "leave without pay".

When I was employed as a civilian at the US Army Corps of Engineers, going home in the case of nuclear attack was not an option.

Seriously wondering what Federal agency your wife works for that is so non-essential in real-world situations?
 
MARIS61 said:
Link? :dunno:

I find no mention of it anywhere and since Federal agencies are not under Hawaii State agencies I doubt they would even have been directly contacted by the state.

Also, most Federal employees are vets, and many have official duties in times of emergency that would preclude any such "leave without pay".

When I was employed as a civilian at the US Army Corps of Engineers, going home in the case of nuclear attack was not an option.

Seriously wondering what Federal agency your wife works for that is so non-essential in real-world situations?
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carrier for the united states postal service
 
MARIS61 said:
Link? :dunno:

I find no mention of it anywhere and since Federal agencies are not under Hawaii State agencies I doubt they would even have been directly contacted by the state.
Click to expand...

Right, federal employees don't have cell phones?

I think that's only true in the white house.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Right, federal employees don't have cell phones?

I think that's only true in the white house.

barfo
Click to expand...
an emergency alert went out to everyone that is signed up for civil defense notices
we live on the slope of an active volcano and experienced sever damage to low areas during the last tsunami and earthquakes are a common occurrence here
 
MARIS61 said:
Link?
Click to expand...
Why would you need a link about his wife, her job or coworkers? ....weird Maris...just sayin'.....firsthand is firsthand...lawai'a is there...you are not...sheesh
Are you standing some mythical nationalistic post on the Korean DM frontline? Man up or listen to a brother...
 
barfo said:
Right, federal employees don't have cell phones?

I think that's only true in the white house.

barfo
Click to expand...

No Federal employee is going to walk off the job simply on say-so from a State agency.
 
riverman said:
Why would you need a link about his wife, her job or coworkers? ....weird Maris...just sayin'.....firsthand is firsthand...lawai'a is there...you are not...sheesh
Are you standing some mythical nationalistic post on the Korean DM frontline? Man up or listen to a brother...
Click to expand...

When a federal agency shuts down and sends everyone home during an emergency, it is news.

Huge news, and widely reported, as we generally expect Federal Agencies to be there to answer our questions and provide emergency aid.

I have worked for BLM, USFS and USPS in addition to USACE.

All four agencies had procedures for what we were expected to do in any emergency situation, and "going home" was never a part of the drill.

I simply asked (as someone who pays her salary) what Federal agency she works for. That is all.
 
barfo said:
Right, federal employees don't have cell phones?

I think that's only true in the white house.

barfo
Click to expand...
an emergency alert went out to everyone that is signed up for civil defense notices
MARIS61 said:
No Federal employee is going to walk off the job simply on say-so from a State agency.
Click to expand...
the specific civil defense message along with the emergency tone was "BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL"
 
MARIS61 said:
When a federal agency shuts down and sends everyone home during an emergency, it is news.

Huge news, and widely reported, as we generally expect Federal Agencies to be there to answer our questions and provide emergency aid.

I have worked for BLM, USFS and USPS in addition to USACE.

All four agencies had procedures for what we were expected to do in any emergency situation, and "going home" was never a part of the drill.

I simply asked (as someone who pays her salary) what Federal agency she works for. That is all.
Click to expand...

You've been told that a nuclear missile is on its way to visit you. What exactly do you expect a letter carrier to do?
 
MARIS61 said:
When a federal agency shuts down and sends everyone home during an emergency, it is news.

Huge news, and widely reported, as we generally expect Federal Agencies to be there to answer our questions and provide emergency aid.

I have worked for BLM, USFS and USPS in addition to USACE.

All four agencies had procedures for what we were expected to do in any emergency situation, and "going home" was never a part of the drill.

I simply asked (as someone who pays her salary) what Federal agency she works for. That is all.
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you don't pay her salary. the USPS turns a profit.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
You've been told that a nuclear missile is on its way to visit you. What exactly do you expect a letter carrier to do?
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Her bosses made the final decision to send everyone home and not just the kona post office either.
 
lawai'a said:
an emergency alert went out to everyone that is signed up for civil defense notices

the specific civil defense message along with the emergency tone was "BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL"
Click to expand...

Did your wife think to check the missile for proper postage? It was being delivered via airmail.
 
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