Healthcare Premiums Become More Expensive for the Uninsured?

[blazerboy30]

Interesting article written by an MD. Would the current proposals in Congress actually help a huge portion of the uninsured, or make it more difficult to obtain coverage? The large portion of the uninsured are young adults, in their 20's, who are relatively healthy and don't require a lot of healthcare. Yet, if they are forced to buy insurance, they will have to pay the premiums that less healthy (older) people pay. This would basically become a bunch of wasted insurance premiums, paid by us taxpayers.

Under current health reform proposals in Congress, this group will be forced to buy health insurance—at prices that will be vastly inflated over the ones now available to them. That's because they will be obliged to buy the same basic comprehensive, federally chosen benefits package that older people would buy and pay premiums that cannot be less than half of the highest premium the pre-Medicare person owes. The higher premiums borne by the young, which would be $4,000 or more (policies can be found now for as little as $500 or $600 yearly) are intended to contribute to the health coverage of their elders. But they would force many young people, even those currently insured, to take government subsidies.

Link

 

[maxiep]

Yep. Right now Moral Hazard works in favor of those young people who have the ability to opt out of health care altogether. I'm in favor of freedom, and sometimes that means the freedom to risk your financial future by not carrying health insurance. President Obama changed his position on mandates after he was elected. I'm certain he saw the numbers and realized that ensuring all these extra people had to be borne by those who otherwise wouldn't carry insurance because they don't tend to need it.

 

[Shapecity]

Our insurance premium at work just went up last month by 10%.

 

[bodyman5001]

Our insurance premium at work just went up last month by 10%.

That is because KFC lowered their prices, it is all over the tv. The insurance people aren't stupid, they know that.......


More KFC=More sickies.

 

[deception]

Our insurance premium at work just went up last month by 10%.

our premiums didnt go up at all here in canada

as for the topic- young ppl also engage in more reckless behaviour than anyone else so when they get in a fight in the entertainment district and they are rushed to the hospital, maxiep (the only taxpayer in america) pays for their stupidity.

 

[blazerboy30]

our premiums didnt go up at all here in canada

as for the topic- young ppl also engage in more reckless behaviour than anyone else so when they get in a fight in the entertainment district and they are rushed to the hospital, maxiep (the only taxpayer in america) pays for their stupidity.

And you don't think this is already accounted for in their premiums? You seem to know things that the insurance companies don't. You should be rich!

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

That's because young people are included with the "wealthy".

 

[bodyman5001]

our premiums didnt go up at all here in canada

as for the topic- young ppl also engage in more reckless behaviour than anyone else so when they get in a fight in the entertainment district and they are rushed to the hospital, maxiep (the only taxpayer in america) pays for their stupidity.

I put this in another thread but everyone has ignored it so far. I was searching for info on my gallbladder as I recently had mine removed (feel fucking awesome now by the way) and came across this bit of info.

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/...=feel+great+after+gallbladder+surgery&page=11

It is post number 54, I don't believe this website is a political site in any way. I will copy the part I am talking about below.......If this is free healthcare you are paying too much


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My horror story pertains only to the fact that I had to rely on the Canadian medical system. I had gall bladder attacks for three months strait and had to live on apple juice and jello, but still they refused to send me for so much as an ultrasound. At age 28 apparently I was "too young" to have gall bladder problems. Finally I went to a naturopath for help. He gave me meds to supposedly slowly dissolve the stones naturally. Within about an hour of taking the meds I got a stone lodged in the duct and went into convulsions. That sent me to the ER where they plugged me full of Percoset. Ya, apparently I'm allergic to it. So, went home, was up sick and hallucinating all night, and back to the ER in the morning and finally admited. Spent a couple of weeks on morphine on a dirty gurney in the ER (no beds available), and finally turned yellow before they were able to book a surgery. They managed to do the lap surgery, but it was complicated, and I required a whole month to recover. Took about three more before I was back to normal. Fun stuff!! lol

Anyway, despite the pathetic medical system, I did manage to have a decent surgeon who did a good job. I had IBS prior to the surgery, and if anything, it's actually a little better since. I've had no problems since and could eat pretty much anything right after. Though having not eaten for several months, I was very careful in waking up my system in the beginning.

One thing I wanted to point out for those who haven't decided to have it removed: if you have stones, drink apple juice. It softens the stones. Not saying they'll pass or anything, but at least it helps with pain. Be sure to brush your teeth after you drink it though, as it has the same corosive effect on teeth as it does on the stones.

 

[bodyman5001]

Man, every time I post this it kills the thread. hmmmm

 

[speeds]

^ I don't think his situation is at all typical, at least from my experiences and the experiences of my friends and family. That's not to say our system is perfect--far from it--but certainly the US can learn from our mistakes and craft a better one, no?

 

[maxiep]

^ I don't think his situation is at all typical, at least from my experiences and the experiences of my friends and family. That's not to say our system is perfect--far from it--but certainly the US can learn from our mistakes and craft a better one, no?

No. We have 10 times as many citizens as Canada. We have more diversity, in terms of race, income, education, etc. It makes delivering those services exponentially more difficult. Unlike other countries who enacted public health care, our debt level is already at dangerous levels. Other countries have high levels of debt BECAUSE of their health care system. What happens when we throw this albatross on our already exploding budget deficit?

Our private sector is what makes us special. Our government is as inefficient and lazy as the rest of the world's.

 

[deception]

Our private sector is what makes us special. Our government is as inefficient and lazy as the rest of the world's.

how many unpaved roads have u driven on? how many times have the mob harassed u? how many seniors do u know dieing prematurely because their socialized medicine (medicare) isnt working? do your heroes (the vets) come back and go broke paying for medical bills like millions of americans? did madoff get u or did the govt intervene before he could defraud more ppl? and if dont like govt so much- why dont u move to somalia. they have no govt but ive heard they have a flourishing private sector, specializing in small arms sales; abductions; piracy and organ trading.

 

[deception]

oh yeah and canada only really hit the red with this recession under a conservative govt. the liberals here in the 90's cut very efficiently and got us a surplus which the tories managed to squander a decade later.

 

[speeds]

No. We have 10 times as many citizens as Canada. We have more diversity, in terms of race, income, education, etc. It makes delivering those services exponentially more difficult.

1. Immigration rate in Canada is higher than any other nation;
2. Percentage of immigrants in United States is 12.81% (vs. 18.76% in Canada);
3. Literacy rate in Canada and United States are both about 99%;
4. Your education index is .968 vs. Canada's .991 (very close);
5. Nominal GDP per capita: US $46859, Canada $45428 (both in USD);
6. Median household income: $50233 (US) vs. $46236 (CAN) (both in USD);
7. 10x the population = 10x the resources (probably more considering it's the USA).

No excuse.

As always the US takes the position they have nothing to learn from the rest of the world.

 

[maxiep]

how many unpaved roads have u driven on? how many times have the mob harassed u? how many seniors do u know dieing prematurely because their socialized medicine (medicare) isnt working? do your heroes (the vets) come back and go broke paying for medical bills like millions of americans? did madoff get u or did the govt intervene before he could defraud more ppl? and if dont like govt so much- why dont u move to somalia. they have no govt but ive heard they have a flourishing private sector, specializing in small arms sales; abductions; piracy and organ trading.

None of what you wrote counters the accusation that our government is lazy and inefficient.

 

[bluefrog]

1. Immigration rate in Canada is higher than any other nation;
2. Percentage of immigrants in United States is 12.81% (vs. 18.76% in Canada);
3. Literacy rate in Canada and United States are both about 99%;
4. Your education index is .968 vs. Canada's .991 (very close);
5. Nominal GDP per capita: US $46859, Canada $45428 (both in USD);
6. Median household income: $50233 (US) vs. $46236 (CAN) (both in USD);
7. 10x the population = 10x the resources (probably more considering it's the USA).

No excuse.

As always the US takes the position they have nothing to learn from the rest of the world.

Yeah but we have a kick ass military.

 

[speeds]

Yeah but we have a kick ass military.

Yep. And some pretty sweet mercenaries, too.

 

[deception]

1. Immigration rate in Canada is higher than any other nation;
2. Percentage of immigrants in United States is 12.81% (vs. 18.76% in Canada);
3. Literacy rate in Canada and United States are both about 99%;
4. Your education index is .968 vs. Canada's .991 (very close);
5. Nominal GDP per capita: US $46859, Canada $45428 (both in USD);
6. Median household income: $50233 (US) vs. $46236 (CAN) (both in USD);
7. 10x the population = 10x the resources (probably more considering it's the USA).

No excuse.

As always the US takes the position they have nothing to learn from the rest of the world.

o'canada motherfuckers!!! maxiep, remember the war of 1812?

 

[deception]

None of what you wrote counters the accusation that our government is lazy and inefficient.

maybe corporations are lazy and inefficient, maybe thats why every US corporations wants a bailout.

 

[yakbladder]

I put this in another thread but everyone has ignored it so far. I was searching for info on my gallbladder as I recently had mine removed (feel fucking awesome now by the way) and came across this bit of info.

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/...=feel+great+after+gallbladder+surgery&page=11

It is post number 54, I don't believe this website is a political site in any way. I will copy the part I am talking about below.......If this is free healthcare you are paying too much

My horror story pertains only to the fact that I had to rely on the Canadian medical system.

And? Part of the problem with anecdotal evidence that many people like to throw around here is that you can almost always find an exception to the rule. You want me to find some American health care horror stories? That would be EASY. That's why the analysis more often looks at an overall situation. The problem that currently exists is that no one can agree on an objective measure of what is a good health care system and when they do agree on something the results are interpreted a million different ways.

 

[Shapecity]

As always the US takes the position they have nothing to learn from the rest of the world.

Yeah I don't like this attitude either you get from the US. I think the havoc hurricane Katrina had on New Orleans could have been avoided or handled better if the US studied how the Dutch engineered their city for floods.

 

[maxiep]

1. Immigration rate in Canada is higher than any other nation;

That's new citizens, not new immigrants. It certainly doesn't factor illegal immigrants, which can't be tracked.

2. Percentage of immigrants in United States is 12.81% (vs. 18.76% in Canada);

Again, you have filtered and controlled immigration. You consider how each immigrant can contribute to your society. We don't means test and that doesn't even factor in illegal immigrants, who are generally low-skill workers.

3. Literacy rate in Canada and United States are both about 99%;
4. Your education index is .968 vs. Canada's .991 (very close);

I never said Canada was a dumb country.

5. Nominal GDP per capita: US $46859, Canada $45428 (both in USD);
6. Median household income: $50233 (US) vs. $46236 (CAN) (both in USD);

Canada is a first-world country. I never said differently.

7. 10x the population = 10x the resources (probably more considering it's the USA).

I'd love to have 10x the resources, but we don't have your oil, natural gas, diamonds or hockey players.

No excuse.

As always the US takes the position they have nothing to learn from the rest of the world.

I never said we didn't have anything to learn. In fact, our greatness comes from the fact that the US has been a magnet for people all over the world who realized they couldn't accomplish their dreams in their home country, so they came here, where the possibilites were unlimited. By definition we learn and prosper by learning from the rest of the world.

And those "best practices" have led us to our current health system. That health system--taking out homicides and vehicular fatalities, which can't be blamed on our health care system--has led to the highest life expectancy in the world. It has led to the longest lifespan after major surgery in the world. Is it more expensive? You bet. Do those who require urgent treatment ever get turned down? NEVER.

We don't have a health care problem in the US. We have a health insurance/payment problem. People have difficulty affording the services offered. But they're never denied urgent treatment. In countries with socialized medicine, you have health care problems. Health care is rationed by the State. You have to wait. You have to live with discomfort. Even if you wish to pay for the procedure, you can't get it done when you want in your own country. And when the pain becomes unbearable, you have to go to another country, usually the good ol' U.S. of A.

The bottom line is that we have chose to stake a different path. No one criticizes Sweden for trying their political "Third Way". Why criticize us? In fact, if I were Canadian, I would pray that we don't socialize our medical system. If we do, those big shiny hospitals in Plattsburgh, Burlington, Niagara Falls (NY), Detroit and Bellingham will be closed to our friends from the North.

 

[maxiep]

maybe corporations are lazy and inefficient, maybe thats why every US corporations wants a bailout.

That post makes as little sense as your grammar.

 

[deception]

No. We have 10 times as many citizens as Canada.

the funny thing about this statement is that there is widely understood economic concept called economies of scale- if anything, u guys should be able to drive costs down because u have more ppl. although, u guys have managed to spend more gdp per capita without an universal healthcare system than anyone else in the world. i think america spends something like 16% gdp per capital and canada spends something in the vicinity of 11 or 12%

 

[deception]

That post makes as little sense as your grammar.

visited any town halls recently? or how about those birther conventions?

 

[maxiep]

Yeah but we have a kick ass military.

And that military protects the Western world. If I have one beef, it's that Western Europe, Japan and Canada free rides off of us when it comes to their protection. Where does that spending go that should go to carrying their fair share? To their cradle-to-grave social programs.

I'd like to see them pick up the slack and allow us to reduce our deficit. Of course, that would require them to cut back on some of their precious benefits, and that's not happening.

It's not like Russia or China are benign entities.

 

[maxiep]

the funny thing about this statement is that there is widely understood economic concept called economies of scale- if anything, u guys should be able to drive costs down because u have more ppl. although, u guys have managed to spend more gdp per capita without an universal healthcare system than anyone else in the world. i think america spends something like 16% gdp per capital and canada spends something in the vicinity of 11 or 12%

I have a few graduate degrees in Economics, so I'll teach you something: Economies of scale only exist where there are efficiencies to be exploited, where you have a common good or service that can be applied equally and consistently. It doesn't work with something as individualized as health care. It's not like we have excess hospital beds. doctors or nurses. Our medical system is running at capacity, because Americans aren't the kind of people to be told you have to wait to be treated.

Allow me to ask a simple question: If you and I sustain the same knee injury--let's say nothing catastrophic, just some swelling and pain from a cartilage tear--which one of us gets an MRI first? Which one of us gets an arthroscopy first?

Heck, let me ask another: Do you have full control over the health care you receive? I do.

 

[deception]

That's new citizens, not new immigrants. It certainly doesn't factor illegal immigrants, which can't be tracked.


The bottom line is that we have chose to stake a different path. No one criticizes Sweden for trying their political "Third Way". Why criticize us? In fact, if I were Canadian, I would pray that we don't socialize our medical system. If we do, those big shiny hospitals in Plattsburgh, Burlington, Niagara Falls (NY), Detroit and Bellingham will be closed to our friends from the North.

canada has plenty of guest workers who work construction, that trend has obviously subsided but its picking up in places like saskatchewan.

and if u guys do socialize your medicine (highly unlikely considering the current bill has certain income qualifiers)- india and thailand will be pissed about at all the revenue lost from patients deciding to stay at home and enjoy affordable treatment.

 

[maxiep]

canada has plenty of guest workers who work construction, that trend has obviously subsided but its picking up in places like saskatchewan.

Are guest workers legal or illegal? Does Canada know they've entered the country?

and if u guys do socialize your medicine (highly unlikely considering the current bill has certain income qualifiers)- india and thailand will be pissed about at all the revenue lost from patients deciding to stay at home and enjoy affordable treatment.

Wrong again. In Europe and Canada, there's a strong insurance market that will send you to the States to be treated. If we close off that market, it will go to those countries. It will be a boon for them.

Do you ever post anything that's correct?

 

[maxiep]

visited any town halls recently? or how about those birther conventions?

A sad ad hominem attack. Time to put white out on the two red stripes and maple leaf and just waive the white flag.