HELL of a game from Webster

[BrianFromWA]

I didn't realize until looking at the box scores just now that Webster matched Aldridge's 15/7 last night.

Just as a "for example", Webster's played 9 games with >30 minutes played this year. in those games, he's averaging the following:

33mpg avg. 5.2/11.7 FG (45%), 2.7/5.2 3pt (43%), 1.2/2.1 FT (59%--blech), 14.3 pts, 5.8 reb, .9/.9 A/TO, .9 stl, .8 blk, 1.9 PF.

even if you counted these games as just "decent" and every other one as Not Decent, that's still 1 in 4. Not one in 6. And some of his < 30min games were pretty solid. And every game he's played he's been on the other team's best wing: and limited them to the lowest production against in the league (according to 82games.com)

I guess what I'm saying is what I've normally said: this guy isn't detracting from anything you're trying to do on the court. He's performing at a remarkable level on the defensive end...he's not killing you on offense...he's playing with energy and "scrap". Just give him 30 min a game and I think (the team) will be surprised at how well he does.

Yes, I'd like him to be more consistent. But as is normally the case when talking about Travis, if webster put up 14/6 every night (just the averages he has when >30 min) with his defense, we wouldn't be talking about a <MLE-paid player.

 

[andalusian]

Web is a nice role player to have. While his performance is still hit and miss, the biggest difference this year compared to last years - is that even when things do not go his way, he still tries hard. This is a big thing in his favor. Not likely to ever be a star, but - given the price/performance ratio - we are good.

 

[BlazerBeliever]

Webster really tore it up tonight. Just like a lot of us say on here: inconsistent!!!!!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Webster really tore it up tonight. Just like a lot of us say on here: inconsistent!!!!!

I don't even get irritated by it like I did earlier in the season. Marty is what he is, and what he's always been. Ben from blazersedge nailed it last week calling him "Arcade" -- "he's a good time for a quarter then after that it's game over."

 

[PapaG]

Webster was horrible against Orlando. Let's hope he bounces back tomorrow.

BLANKY!

 

[PapaG]

Web is a nice role player to have. While his performance is still hit and miss, the biggest difference this year compared to last years - is that even when things do not go his way, he still tries hard. This is a big thing in his favor. Not likely to ever be a star, but - given the price/performance ratio - we are good.

Actually, the biggest difference between this year and last year is that Webster is actually on the court and able to play.

I'm not sure if that's a plus or a minus right now, though.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Actually, the biggest difference between this year and last year is that Webster is actually on the court and able to play.

I respectfully disagree with this assessment.

I'm not sure if that's a plus or a minus right now, though.

Well, we could always look up his plus-minus and find out.

 

[hasoos]

I think that Martells nickname needs to be changed to "The Quarter". Because if you get one good quarter of play out of him, you are frackin lucky!

 

[bigbailes]

wow was he awful shooting the ball tonight. at least this year he seems to be hustling and getting rebounds when his shot isn't falling. i just don't understand why he doesn't take it to the hoop more on nights like last night. he had two chances in the first half to drive to the hoop but tried to take pull up jumpers that are pretty difficult shots.

 

[Luther]

wow was he awful shooting the ball tonight. at least this year he seems to be hustling and getting rebounds when his shot isn't falling. i just don't understand why he doesn't take it to the hoop more on nights like last night. he had two chances in the first half to drive to the hoop but tried to take pull up jumpers that are pretty difficult shots.

I don't think he's too confident with his ball handling skills..Which makes sense. A lot of the shots he took were in and out. I dont think he played bad aside from the shooting. Rebounded well and played solid defense.

 

[hasoos]

I don't think he's too confident with his ball handling skills..Which makes sense. A lot of the shots he took were in and out. I dont think he played bad aside from the shooting. Rebounded well and played solid defense.

It just seems to me that the game never slowed down for Martell. He always hurries everything. He has never developed that patience that comes when the game slows down for you. He just makes up his mind as to what he is going to do, and then does it as fast as he can.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It just seems to me that the game never slowed down for Martell. He always hurries everything. He has never developed that patience that comes when the game slows down for you. He just makes up his mind as to what he is going to do, and then does it as fast as he can.

John Wooden would not approve.

 

[jlprk]

And there you have just about the only difference between Webster and Batum. Batum is thinking strategy on the court. So he can play defense, shoot a higher percentage, be in the right place, etc. Bayless suffers from the same robotic syndrome as Webster.

 

[bigbailes]

I don't think he's too confident with his ball handling skills..Which makes sense. A lot of the shots he took were in and out. I dont think he played bad aside from the shooting. Rebounded well and played solid defense.

yea but he bounced back with a nice solid night. the ship has sailed on him living up to being the #6 pick in the draft but if he could just be that solid role player we need in that spot than i'm cool with webster.

 

[Luther]

yea but he bounced back with a nice solid night. the ship has sailed on him living up to being the #6 pick in the draft but if he could just be that solid role player we need in that spot than i'm cool with webster.

Yea w/out Webster we don't win the game tonight. He played great defense like he has all season and his shot was falling. As far as living up to the #6 pick, I gave up on that a while ago. I just want to see him improve every year. He's only 22 so I think people kind of forget that he has a lot of growing to do as a player. It just sucks because we all see how athletic he is and how perfect his shot is at times.

 

[Pontius]

Webster with +23 to lead the team. Thank God Nate figured it out with 5:00 to go that Blake and the small ball was doing nothing to win the game.

 

[mgb]

I respectfully disagree with this assessment.


Well, we could always look up his plus-minus and find out.

How can you disagree? He played 5 mins last year. Are you thinking of the year before?

 

[mgb]

Webster didn't play that well at Orlando, but who did? He did have a nice game tonite. That is being more consistent. I don't expect it to happen over-nite.

 

[BlazerBeliever]

I don't expect it to happen over-nite.

So in how many seasons until you expect it to happen?

 

[Paxil]

I don't think Webster will ever be the kind of player I thought he was... a lights out shooter.

 

[Luther]

I don't think Webster will ever be the kind of player I thought he was... a lights out shooter.

How many "lights out" shooters are there in the NBA?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Made me do some research...

The starting point for my assumptions were:

1) The shooter has to be at least as prolific as Martell, since he doesn't get a ton of shots for our team but still is relied upon to make them when he shoots. Therefore, no guys who are 1-1 this year at 100%.

2) The shooter has to be at least as accurate as Martell, since it doesn't make sense when calling him "not a pure shooter" to say that a guy shooting worse than he is is one.

Here's the list of those players. There are 28. Webster (if it matters, which it may not to some) is the third-youngest on this list behind Jennings and Gallinari.

Anthony Parker
Jared Dudley
Paul Pierce
Anthony Morrow
Channing Frye
Matt Bonner
J.J. Redick
Steve Nash
Mike Bibby
Mo Williams
Danilo Gallinari
Jason Kidd
Brandon Jennings
Peja Stojakovic
Rashard Lewis
Jason Richardson
Hedo Turkoglu
Mickael Pietrus
Chauncey Billups
Ray Allen
LeBron James
Andres Nocioni
Steve Blake
Martell Webster
Andrea Bargnani
Danny Granger
Aaron Brooks
Ron Artest

I removed the following because they are overall "Great", rather than Pure Shooters: Pierce, Nash, James, Kidd, Allen (though he'd qualify as a "Pure Shooter", imho), Billups. Obviously I'd trade Webster for any one of those, but that's not really going to happen.

There's a 2nd tier of guys like Bibby, Turkoglu, Granger, Artest, Rashard, Mo Williams, Richardson that are very useful because of their shooting, but not necessarily known as "specialists". Which is kind of what I think about "pure shooters".

Then there's the tier (not on here) of guys like Korver, Kapono, Mike Miller who don't qualify for whatever reason (mostly injuries), that I'd say are in the "specialist" range that can be added to who's left: check: for if I personally would call them a "specialist" or "pure shooter", rather than

Anthony Parker
Jared Dudley - not yet, but we'll see if he can keep this up for a season or two
Morrow - see Dudley
Frye - if he keeps hitting like this, it'd be hard to keep him out of the "specialist" category, though he's not close to "2nd Tier" yet
Bonner
Redick
Gallinari - well on his way to being a
Jennings - soon to be 2nd Tier or higher
Peja -
Pietrus - probably the closest player on this list to Webster...not a 2nd Tier guy but close
Nocioni - farther from being 2nd Tier, but useful and not a specialist
Blake - , just not as accurate as in years past
Bargnani - could make the 2nd Tier leap, but not yet. He's not good enough yet to be a specialist, either
Brooks - if he can add a higher % to his arsenal, could be tough to stop.

So what's that, 6 "pure shooting" specialists in the League (maybe another 2 or 3 if you count injuries)? Another 7 who are 2nd Tier players---great shooters but who do so much more that they're not "specialists"? And then the superstars who just do everything well?

Blake, Peja, Redick, Parker, Bonner as the only real "pure shooters"? Would you trade Webster for one of those guys?
It opened my eyes just a bit to see just how rare and valuable that kind of shooting is (and I'm including Blake in that value), especially when if you factor in his increasing defensive ability and youth Webster is closer to being in that 2nd Tier than a lot of the others on the list.

FWIW

 

[magnifier661]

Webster = glue guy. I love using that word. It seems Portland is filled with them. But in all seriousness, he really is one. I love him as a defender and position frustration guy. He is really starting to become that "Bruce Bowen" type player, that really gets under your skin.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Webster didn't play that well at Orlando, but who did? He did have a nice game tonite. That is being more consistent. I don't expect it to happen over-nite.

Regarding his "consistency", anybody who expects him to have a solid game every night is going to be disappointed, and the same can be said about 90% of the players in the league (perhaps more). That said, if you look at his game log--specifically at the "game score" (a statistical conglomerate akin to PER), he's more consistent than you might think.

The first five games, he started, and had a GmSc above 5.0 in 4 of them. Then he was benched, kicking off a string of 18 games (9 as a reserve, 9 as a starter) were mostly bad. All had a GmSc below 5.0, except the games against MEM and MIN, all of which were above 5.0. Then, over the past six games, he's had a GmSc above 5.0 in all but the Orlando game.

So, he basically had a bad month (11/6 to 12/9), which I (an admitted Webster apologist) might attribute to loss of confidence over his inexplicable benching. Outside of that span, he's been decent statistically in 10 of 12 games, and he's been decent defensively all year. I think he's been more consistent than most are giving him credit for.

 

[mgb]

So in how many seasons until you expect it to happen?

As a starter? I think by the end of the season he'll be much more consistent. Remember he started out when he was 18 I believe. Then miss all of last season, which I think would have been his break out season if not for injury, except for 5 mins. Usually when you get someone straight out of HS it takes four years before they get it going. There are exceptions, but in general that is true. Last year would have been his 5th, but injury kept him from playing and sitting out a year puts him behind more than just that year. I think he is doing well considering everything.

You are just pissed because Martell cost you a T-bone steak dinner.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Webster = glue guy. I love using that word. It seems Portland is filled with them. But in all seriousness, he really is one. I love him as a defender and position frustration guy. He is really starting to become that "Bruce Bowen" type player, that really gets under your skin.

I'm not saying that Martell doesn't try on defense and that he doesn't hustle on the court, but this idea that he's turning into some kind of lockdown wing defender is mind boggling. He's turned himself into a pretty decent weak-side shot blocker and man to man he does OK for a guy without elite lateral quickness, but he does not rotate well, he doesn't close out on shooters well and he's just plain lost at times on D.

You were right about one thing though, he does get under my skin.

 

[hasoos]

Why do folks continue to act like we can't have our cake and eat it too. You can have both a player who defends, and scores his share of the load on a consistent nightly basis. The key being consistent. The best teams in the league have consistent players. You know what you are going to get out of them every night. Not 15 one night and 2 pts the next 3 games. The Blazers are going on about 5 years now without a SF worth a damn. Meanwhile, some other teams have up to multiple SF types who are better than ours.

 

[hasoos]

Made me do some research...

The starting point for my assumptions were:

1) The shooter has to be at least as prolific as Martell, since he doesn't get a ton of shots for our team but still is relied upon to make them when he shoots. Therefore, no guys who are 1-1 this year at 100%.

2) The shooter has to be at least as accurate as Martell, since it doesn't make sense when calling him "not a pure shooter" to say that a guy shooting worse than he is is one.

Here's the list of those players. There are 28. Webster (if it matters, which it may not to some) is the third-youngest on this list behind Jennings and Gallinari.

Anthony Parker
Jared Dudley
Paul Pierce
Anthony Morrow
Channing Frye
Matt Bonner
J.J. Redick
Steve Nash
Mike Bibby
Mo Williams
Danilo Gallinari
Jason Kidd
Brandon Jennings
Peja Stojakovic
Rashard Lewis
Jason Richardson
Hedo Turkoglu
Mickael Pietrus
Chauncey Billups
Ray Allen
LeBron James
Andres Nocioni
Steve Blake
Martell Webster
Andrea Bargnani
Danny Granger
Aaron Brooks
Ron Artest

I removed the following because they are overall "Great", rather than Pure Shooters: Pierce, Nash, James, Kidd, Allen (though he'd qualify as a "Pure Shooter", imho), Billups. Obviously I'd trade Webster for any one of those, but that's not really going to happen.

There's a 2nd tier of guys like Bibby, Turkoglu, Granger, Artest, Rashard, Mo Williams, Richardson that are very useful because of their shooting, but not necessarily known as "specialists". Which is kind of what I think about "pure shooters".

Then there's the tier (not on here) of guys like Korver, Kapono, Mike Miller who don't qualify for whatever reason (mostly injuries), that I'd say are in the "specialist" range that can be added to who's left: check: for if I personally would call them a "specialist" or "pure shooter", rather than

Anthony Parker
Jared Dudley - not yet, but we'll see if he can keep this up for a season or two
Morrow - see Dudley
Frye - if he keeps hitting like this, it'd be hard to keep him out of the "specialist" category, though he's not close to "2nd Tier" yet
Bonner
Redick
Gallinari - well on his way to being a
Jennings - soon to be 2nd Tier or higher
Peja -
Pietrus - probably the closest player on this list to Webster...not a 2nd Tier guy but close
Nocioni - farther from being 2nd Tier, but useful and not a specialist
Blake - , just not as accurate as in years past
Bargnani - could make the 2nd Tier leap, but not yet. He's not good enough yet to be a specialist, either
Brooks - if he can add a higher % to his arsenal, could be tough to stop.

So what's that, 6 "pure shooting" specialists in the League (maybe another 2 or 3 if you count injuries)? Another 7 who are 2nd Tier players---great shooters but who do so much more that they're not "specialists"? And then the superstars who just do everything well?

Blake, Peja, Redick, Parker, Bonner as the only real "pure shooters"? Would you trade Webster for one of those guys?
It opened my eyes just a bit to see just how rare and valuable that kind of shooting is (and I'm including Blake in that value), especially when if you factor in his increasing defensive ability and youth Webster is closer to being in that 2nd Tier than a lot of the others on the list.

FWIW

Theres only 28? I call bullpucky on that. Webster is currently 99th in the league in 3 point percentage, and is shooting a horrible percentage from the floor. How the hell can he even be called a shooter if he isn't making buckets? Remember, the key part about being a shooter, is actually making a shot. He currently is shooting .378 from 2 point land and .359 from 3 point land. You would hope, being in the league for several years you would see improvement from year to year, but in fact, this is one of his worst years since entering the league. Those numbers are flat out horrible.

 

[Kaydow]

I'm not saying that Martell doesn't try on defense and that he doesn't hustle on the court, but this idea that he's turning into some kind of lockdown wing defender is mind boggling. He's turned himself into a pretty decent weak-side shot blocker and man to man he does OK for a guy without elite lateral quickness, but he does not rotate well, he doesn't close out on shooters well and he's just plain lost at times on D.

You were right about one thing though, he does get under my skin.

I was baffled by that comparison as well. Martell does have his moments. And there are times he works his tail off on D, but he doesn't sustain it. He has lapses, and and when he makes mistakes at the other end he carries that over. I will say, he's gotten better about that. Still not in the same conversation as a guy like Bowen. Besides, Bowen got under guy's skin by doing a lot of things that were borderline (or sometimes blatantly) illegal He'd grab your jersey, run underneath you when you went up in the air - he had the reputation as a dirty player. He wasn't all that athletic, but he was crafty and really intelligent. I can't think of one thing about his game that reminds me of Martell.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Theres only 28? I call bullpucky on that. Webster is currently 99th in the league in 3 point percentage, and is shooting a horrible percentage from the floor. How the hell can he even be called a shooter if he isn't making buckets? Remember, the key part about being a shooter, is actually making a shot. He currently is shooting .378 from 2 point land and .359 from 3 point land. You would hope, being in the league for several years you would see improvement from year to year, but in fact, this is one of his worst years since entering the league. Those numbers are flat out horrible.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...t&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=ws

Kinda sucks when your perception isn't really reality, right? And if I did Webster's actual stats (41 3pm and 35.9%) there are 22.
http://www.basketball-reference.com...al=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=fg3_pct