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DaRizzle said:
I'm pretty sure the only shit talking going on after the play was Ariza and Roy. There were a bunch of people between Ariza and Rudy right after the play.

Ariza was pretty thuggish with Roy...I read lips and saw a "bitch ass n----a" headed in Roy's direction
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Ariza was thuggish on the foul, after the foul when he saw Rudy down, and as he was being restrained from going after Blazer players by his own teammates.

Dude is a douche bag and will be a hated player in Portland for the rest of his career.
 
PapaG said:
Ariza looked over at Rudy and then turned away and started screaming. After your act in another thread about Rudy being "brittle", I'm not going to take a thing you say seriously.
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Of course I didn't mean that, I was just showing you how ridiculous you blazer fans sounded with the hate colored glasses.

Watch the video. Ariza had 2 seconds to do anything before Roy was on him. It's understandable why he got pissed off when Roy rushed him like that.
 
Ed O said:
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList

Section IV(b).



It was pretty obviously a flagrant 2.

Excessive? Without a doubt. He sent Rudy tumbling through the air and landing all out of whack.

Intentional? I think so. He intended, he said, to make a "hard foul" on the ball. One does not make a hard foul without contact.

It doesn't mean that he meant to hurt Rudy, but an intention to harm is not considered when handing out flagrant fouls.

Ed O.
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No way man...watch the play again,
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1:25 in the video...your own announcer " well he swung at the ball but I dont care what he wings at, he hit his head"

It sucks but leave your bias out of it. It was a play on the ball that had a shitty ending, thats all. Ariza isnt responsible for how Rudy lands if it was a clean foul. Too many players get flagrants because how a player falls rather than the intent of the contact
 
PapaG said:
Ariza was thuggish on the foul, after the foul when he saw Rudy down, and as he was being restrained from going after Blazer players by his own teammates.
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Well Roy actually escalated it by going in there...Ive seen no video that shows me what you claim so far
 
C'mon Rizz... you know Mike & Mike are the homeriest homers ever to call a game.

I have to say, I'm sure as shit glad Dickie B was reffing the game... he keeps his shit tight on the floor.
 
DaRizzle said:
No way man...watch the play again,
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1:25 in the video...your own announcer " well he swung at the ball but I dont care what he wings at, he hit his head"

It sucks but leave your bias out of it. It was a play on the ball that had a shitty ending, thats all. Ariza isnt responsible for how Rudy lands if it was a clean foul. Too many players get flagrants because how a player falls rather than the intent of the contact
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I actually agree with this part of your statement, but the fact that Trevor followed through with his arms and the player was utterly defenseless certainly made it a flagrant 1 ... flagrant 2 is a little less certain, but this was not just some run of the mill 'personal foul' -- no fucking way.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I actually agree with this part of your statement, but the fact that Trevor followed through with his arms and the player was utterly defenseless certainly made it a flagrant 1 ... flagrant 2 is a little less certain, but this was not just some run of the mill 'personal foul' -- no fucking way.
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You mean his attempt to block the shot? Who the hell stops their arm halfway for going for a hail mary block?
 
Nikolokolus said:
I actually agree with this part of your statement, but the fact that Trevor followed through with his arms and the player was utterly defenseless certainly made it a flagrant 1 ... flagrant 2 is a little less certain, but this was not just some run of the mill 'personal foul' -- no fucking way.
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I personally think the Flagrant 2 was necessary to keep the crowd from going homicidal... luckily, it was also true that the Flagrant 2 was warranted. You don't have to be a physicist to know that yanking a dude's arm when he's flying through the air at 18 mph will cause him to flop around like a wounded duck until he hits the ground. Hard foul or no, you don't mess with a dude's trajectory like that while he's in the air.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
C'mon Rizz... you know Mike & Mike are the homeriest homers ever to call a game.

I have to say, I'm sure as shit glad Dickie B was reffing the game... he keeps his shit tight on the floor.
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All the players are scared they are gonna accidentally knock him over and kill him
 
I don't care if it was on purpose or not. Ariza is a stupid fuck for thinking he could even block that shot. He's been hanging around Kobe too much, who does he think he is? The next Lebron? Fuck that. Can't wait to see his new crown tattoo on his arm.
 
HailBlazers said:
I don't care if it was on purpose or not. Ariza is a stupid fuck for thinking he could even block that shot.
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I'm sure Ariza *thinks* he's Tayshaun Prince... I mean, it's good to have dreams and all... but that's on the level of Ruben calling himself the Kobe Stopper. Completely absurd.
 
DaRizzle said:
1:25 in the video...your own announcer " well he swung at the ball but I dont care what he wings at, he hit his head"
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I don't find that relevant. He was reacting real-time with limited information and I don't think he was going on-record as to whether the foul was excessive and intentional or not.

It sucks but leave your bias out of it.
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I don't think that my bias is significant in this matter. I think many Blazers fans would think I've got a Lakers bias here. Disagreement doesn't dictate (or even indicate) bias.

It was a play on the ball that had a shitty ending, thats all. Ariza isnt responsible for how Rudy lands if it was a clean foul.
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The second sentence is absolutely true, but it was NOT a clean foul. He got Rudy's head. He took Rudy down by the wrist. He created a lot of contact when a player was defenseless.

Ariza has admitted he intended to make a hard foul. I don't see how anyone could really think it was "clean".

Too many players get flagrants because how a player falls rather than the intent of the contact
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As I outlined above, there are two parts of a flagrant foul 2. Only one of them are used in a Flagrant 1 determination.

Excessive? The result has to be factored in here, I think. Did the player go sprawling? Was he injured? It's conceivable that a player could be excessively fouled without a bad result (Shaq getting fouled by a little guy, for example) but it seems less than likely.

Intentional? This is not applicable to Flagrant 1 fouls. Only Flagrant 2.

If we don't look at the result when determining what's "excessive", it would be difficult to distinguish between "excessive" and "intentional", since it would just speak to what the offending player meant to do.

I think it's natural that most flagrants are because of the results (since Flagrant 2s are much less common).

In this case, though, I believe that both elements are satisfied and the refs were justified and correct in whistling Ariza for a Flagrant 2.

Ed O.
 
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DaRizzle said:
You mean his attempt to block the shot? Who the hell stops their arm halfway for going for a hail mary block?
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The Lakers got clown-stomped, and you have to resort to trying and defend Douche Bag Ariza. That makes the win even more satisfying.
 
PapaG said:
The Lakers got clown-stomped, and you have to resort to trying and defend Douche Bag Ariza. That makes the win even more satisfying.
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no im trying to have an interesting conversation about a controversial part of the game....wtf am i thinking
 
He took Rudy down by the wrist.
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Okay, so I just watched that part 5 times in a row...Ariza doesnt grab Rudy's arm at all. If you look at that replay at 1:25 you will see their arms make contact wrist to wrist. Sure that made Rudy get more out of control but that was hardly Ariza grabbing his arm.

He got Rudy's head.
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Yes, while making an obvious attempt at the ball, hence not a flagrant if you play it by the book
 
DaRizzle said:
no im trying to have an interesting conversation about a controversial part of the game....wtf am i thinking
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:lol: you just owned yourself, in your own shitstorm thread.

But seriously though, comparing Ariza to the wingspan of Tayshaun Prince?
 
HailBlazers said:
:lol: ^^^ you just owned yourself, join the club.

But seriously though, comparing Ariza to the wingspan of Tayshaun Prince?
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Yes, wingspan, thats what Im talking about :rolleyes:

So your motto is "dont try cause Ill probably fail"...awesome, good luck with that
 
DaRizzle said:
Okay, so I just watched that part 5 times in a row...Ariza doesnt grab Rudy's arm at all. If you look at that replay at 1:25 you will see their arms make contact wrist to wrist. Sure that made Rudy get more out of control but that was hardly Ariza grabbing his arm.
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You're attempting to ascribe intent. I'm not concerned about intent.

If he had not pulled Rudy down by the wrist (whether intentionally or not) Rudy would not have been hurt as badly, potentially.

It doesn't matter that Ariza intended to do all the damage that he did, it matters whether he intentionally made contact with him.

What other description of a "hard foul" would you give other than one that has body contact? That's the term for what Ariza was trying to do. What his intent was. I would think that while there's a chance he DID intend to hurt Rudy, while he would be smart and self-motivated not to admit that, he would not be motivated to admit more malicious intent than he actually possessed at the time.

By his own words, then, I think he's established intent to make contact with Rudy. The fact that Rudy landed horribly and has to spend the night in the hospital is evidence that the foul was excessive. Those two things together add up to a Flagrant 2.

Ed O.
 
HailBlazers said:
:lol: you just owned yourself, in your own shitstorm thread.

But seriously though, comparing Ariza to the wingspan of Tayshaun Prince?
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How about comparing Ariza to Tayshaun Prince, period? :biglaugh:
 
Dude come on suck a laker fan dick or something ^^^

Why you gotta prove me wrong
 
HailBlazers said:
Dude come on suck a laker fan dick or something ^^^

Why you gotta prove me wrong
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I don't have to prove you wrong. It just seems silly to have to stretch the truth or make things up when we just kicked the Lakers' teeth in.

Whether it was you making a false assertion about Ariza or DaRizzle saying something wrong about, say, Nic Batum, if I could easily find evidence to show it was incorrect I would try to do so. It's more fun, IMO, to argue from facts.

Ed O.
 
DaRizzle said:
I dont think he was being sarcastic
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I do.

Just keep on keepin' on.

Tomorrow some of the rage will have faded but the happiness from a blowout win over your team will remain... and people will like you again :)

Ed O.
 
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