Herman Cain, why not? (1 Viewer)

[barfo]

Here's why not, in just a few words:

But the odds are much higher that, when the public understands it, the vast majority of taxpayers will be horrified to realize they face a huge tax increase. That assessment comes from Bruce Bartlett, a senior official in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations, who described the plan as a “distributional monstrosity.”

“The poor would pay more while the rich would have their taxes cut, with no guarantee that economic growth will increase and good reason to believe that the budget deficit will increase” Bartlett recently wrote in the New York Times. “Even allowing for the poorly thought-through promises routinely made on the campaign trail, Mr. Cain’s tax plan stands out as exceptionally ill conceived."

barfo

 

[huevonkiller]

Republicans are looking to cling to anything different from this week crop. Christie was the flavor of the week last week, now its Cain.

Yawn!

Obama's going to be back.

Uh no I wouldn't bet on that. As soulless as Mitt is he could easily beat Barry. Christie would wipe him out completely.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Uh no I wouldn't bet on that. As soulless as Mitt is he could easily beat Barry. Christie would wipe him out completely.

so you WOULD bet on mitt winning?

 

[huevonkiller]

so you WOULD bet on mitt winning?

If he secures the GOP nomination, yeah.

That guy will say whatever it takes to win.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

noted

 

[ABM]

Here's why not, in just a few words:



barfo

I'm sure it will sliced-and-diced nearer to when a GOP candidate is chosen, though. I'm certainly at least curious as to what the breakdown of it all yields.

 

[Ed O]

I'm sure it will sliced-and-diced nearer to when a GOP candidate is chosen, though. I'm certainly at least curious as to what the breakdown of it all yields.

It seems to me like Cain's math is off with how much revenue would be generated and how big the impact on middle class taxpayers would be.

I, personally, don't have much problem with a more regressive (less progressive) tax rate if there are overall gains for the economy. I don't feel at all confident that 9/9/9 would help the economy enough to justify the problems it would raise.

Ed O.

 

[Denny Crane]

Under Cain's plan, those paying 15% into FICA and other withholding taxes would not pay those. So it'd be an actual cut from 15%+~5% down to 9% for the low end of the tax rolls.

I think we figured 8% flat tax on income would exceed the current income tax revenues. Overall, it's a tax hike.

For corporations that pay $0, they'd be paying 9%. It would likely pay for the 35% (few pay it) -> 9% (every company pays it) difference.

The sales tax will certainly hit up the rich (who spend more) for bigger bucks than the lower income earners.

The only way people are going to pay more at the low end are those who pay $0 and actually get back refunds due to credits.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i am down with a nationwide sales tax, get some drug dealer money, i just think it would be tough in states where there is already a close to 9% sales tax already existing

and we need to do SOMETHING about the rebate checks going out

hrmmm maybe ill look into this guy a little more, i mean he is black too, which is rad

 

[barfo]

Under Cain's plan, those paying 15% into FICA and other withholding taxes would not pay those. So it'd be an actual cut from 15%+~5% down to 9% for the low end of the tax rolls.

Most people aren't self-employed, and if you expect that employees are going to get a raise when employers no longer have to pay FICA, you are dreaming.

The sales tax will certainly hit up the rich (who spend more) for bigger bucks than the lower income earners.

In terms of dollars, sure. In terms of percentage of income, or ability to pay, no.

The only way people are going to pay more at the low end are those who pay $0 and actually get back refunds due to credits.

Those people will pay 18% instead of getting a credit. I'd call that a pretty significant increase.

But even people who aren't getting credits will pay more. It's a tax increase on the vast majority of Americans, a tax cut for rich people and businesses.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Math challenged?

If companies don't give the employees their contribution to FICA, etc., they'll be able to hire 10% more employees. Even if they hire 5% more, that's more taxpayers. And less ObamaUnemployed.

 

[jlprk]

In Cain's plan, businesses pay 9% on all revenues, not just on profit as they do now. They cannot deduct expenses, such as payroll. Cain apparently doesn't know the difference between revenue and profit.

In Cain's plan, businesses can't deduct purchases for items made outside the U.S., such as computers. He was asked whether his plan allows businesses to deduct a Toyota or BMW made in the U.S. (that's where they're made), or a car containing some parts made in another country (that's every American car). He answered loudly with disdain, "I have noooo idea."

Cain's plan is a giant tax increase for businesses. This is why Republicans only criticize Democratic plans instead of creating their own in any detail. They're too stupid to have anything except slogans and hot air.

 

[barfo]

Math challenged?

If companies don't give the employees their contribution to FICA, etc., they'll be able to hire 10% more employees. Even if they hire 5% more, that's more taxpayers. And less ObamaUnemployed.

Ok, first you say

Under Cain's plan, those paying 15% into FICA and other withholding taxes would not pay those. So it'd be an actual cut from 15%+~5% down to 9% for the low end of the tax rolls.

That certainly sounds like you are saying that the employees would get the full benefit of the FICA tax elimination.
Now you are saying the employers would use it to hire more workers. That might be true (although probably not, they'll probably just pocket the difference), but it certainly doesn't help reduce the tax rate paid by the existing workers.

barfo

 

[jlprk]

So most small businesses would go out of business. And since the 9% national sales tax is on top of the sales tax consumers already pay, consumers would buy a lot less, driving the remaining businesses out of business. The new sales tax would be on everything, while current sales tax is on only some things.

As for Cain making it practically illegal (okay, nondeductible) for businesses to buy goods made in other countries--other countries would retaliate with tariffs on goods made here, further sinking our economy.

If you don't understand the above, I'll make it brief for you. Republicans are idiots who will fall for any conservative slogan, such as 9-9-9.

 

[ABM]

And since the 9% national sales tax is on top of the sales tax consumers already pay, consumers would buy a lot less...

Honestly, I don't know much at all regarding the 9-9-9 plan. Would it replace Federal income taxes?

 

[jlprk]

Math challenged? If companies don't give the employees their contribution to FICA, etc., they'll be able to hire 10% more employees. Even if they hire 5% more, that's more taxpayers. And less ObamaUnemployed.

Why would they hire more employees if they wouldn't do so now? If they could make more profit by hiring people, they would now. If they need startup money to hire right now, they'd borrow it from a bank, not wait years for a tax break.

A permanent 8.45% saving (employer portion of FICA, Medicare, and FUTA) wouldn't cause them to waste 8.45% in unneeded increased employee cost. The owner would just add a couple of annual Hawaii vacations.

When I used to run payrolls, that's what my efficiency allowed the owner to do for many weeks. He left me in charge, making pennies to do his job while he and the family were in Hawaii.

Honestly, I don't know much at all regarding the 9-9-9 plan. Would it replace Federal income taxes?

Yes, but it would add to, not replace, local sales tax and state income tax.

 

[barfo]

In Cain's plan, businesses pay 9% on all revenues, not just on profit as they do now. They cannot deduct expenses, such as payroll. Cain apparently doesn't know the difference between revenue and profit.

I hadn't realized that payroll expenses were not deductible, so I went and looked at Cain's website, islewabel.com.

And yes, he's providing an incentive to minimize salaries. Payments to another company that provides labor overseas? Deductible. Payments to american employees? Not deductible.

Gee, I'll bet that will put america back to work.

And this guy is leading in the polls?

barfo

 

[ABM]

I hadn't realized that payroll expenses were not deductible, so I went and looked at Cain's website, islewabel.com.

And yes, he's providing an incentive to minimize salaries. Payments to another company that provides labor overseas? Deductible. Payments to american employees? Not deductible.

Gee, I'll bet that will put america back to work.

And this guy is leading in the polls?

barfo

See, if stuff like this was researched, then brought up in the debates, I'm sure Cain's stock would decline fairly rapidly.

My question is, why is the 9-9-9 not being challenged more often? OTOH, now that Cane has seemingly taken the lead, I'm sure it will be.

 

[julius]

I hadn't realized that payroll expenses were not deductible, so I went and looked at Cain's website, islewabel.com.

And yes, he's providing an incentive to minimize salaries. Payments to another company that provides labor overseas? Deductible. Payments to american employees? Not deductible.

Gee, I'll bet that will put america back to work.

And this guy is leading in the polls?

barfo

better question. Do the Republicans really want to win, or are they just planning on making a show?

 

[julius]

See, if stuff like this was researched, then brought up in the debates, I'm sure Cain's stock would decline fairly rapidly.

My question is, why is the 9-9-9 not being challenged more often? OTOH, now that Cane has seemingly taken the lead, I'm sure it will be.

because they don't want their hair brained comments challenged either.

 

[ABM]

because they don't want their hair brained comments challenged either.

....and, we certainly know our fearless leader has all the correct answers.

 

[jlprk]

Huffington figured out where Cain got the idea!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/13/herman-cain-999-sim-city_n_1008952.html

 

[ABM]

Huffington figured out where Cain got the idea!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/13/herman-cain-999-sim-city_n_1008952.html

So long as it has a positive conclusion.

 

[ABM]

Interesting. Rand Paul thinks that 9-9-9 could become, say, 21-21-21 over time.

 

[jlprk]

I just read the article and it's even better than I expected. So for the enjoyment of the click-challenged, here it is.
-----------------
WASHINGTON -- In Herman Cain's America, the tax code would be very, very simple: The corporate income tax rate would be 9 percent, the personal income tax rate would be 9 percent and the national sales tax rate would be 9 percent.

But there's already a 999 plan out there, in a land called SimCity.

Long before Cain was running for president and getting attention for his 999 plan, the residents of SimCity 4 -- which was released in 2003 -- were living under a system where the default tax rate was 9 percent for commercial taxes, 9 percent for industrial taxes and 9 percent for residential taxes. (That is, of course, if you didn't use the cheat codes to get unlimited money and avoid taxes altogether.)

A screenshot from the game's default settings:


There has been all sorts of speculation about where Cain came up with the idea for his catchy plan -- Unnamed economic advisers? A clever marketing promotion pulled from the pizza industry? -- but beyond a few hardcore gamers in the comments sections of blogs, few have looked to SimCity, the land where there's a "God mode."

Kip Katsarelis, a senior producer for Maxis, the company that created the SimCity series, was excited that politicians may be looking to video games for ideas.

"We encourage politicians to continue to look to innovative games like SimCity for inspiration for social and economic change," said Katsarelis. "While we at Maxis and Electronic Arts do not endorse any political candidates or their platforms, it's interesting to see GOP candidate Herman Cain propose a simplified tax system like one we designed for the video game SimCity 4."

Adopting such a simple tax structure, Katsarelis said, would allow fantasy political leaders to focus their energy on infrastructure and national security. "Our game design team thought that an easy to understand taxation system would allow players to focus on building their cities and have fun thwarting giant lizard attacks, rather than be buried by overly complex financial systems."

When asked about similarities between Cain's plan and SimCity's default tax rates, Cain campaign spokesman JD Gordon replied, "Well, we all like 9-9-9."

Rich Lowrie, the Ohio Wells Fargo employee who is the brains behind Cain's plan, did not return a request for comment regarding whether he is a fan of SimCity and looked to the game for inspiration.

A receptionist at Lowrie's Wells Fargo office said she doubted his idea came from SimCity. "Probably not," she told The Huffington Post. "I don't think he's much of a game person."

Presumably, under the Cain plan, disasters would be turned off.

 

[ABM]

'I haven't left my house in days.
I watch the news channels incessantly.
All the news stories are about the election;
All the commercials are for Viagra and Cialis.
Election - erection - election - erection
......either way we're getting screwed!'

~Bette Midler

...

 

[julius]

....and, we certainly know our fearless leader has all the correct answers.

Not sure what he has to do with my answer since I wasn't only talking about one party exclusively

 

[ABM]

Not sure what he has to do with my answer since I wasn't only talking about one party exclusively

Well, then, both parties are hair-brained. We're doomed!!

 

[jlprk]

This board is funny tonight!
Two people spelling it hair-brained is like calling each other morans!

I can't decide whether this reminds me of Laurel & Hardy or the Three Stooges. I'll give this tough decision a lot more thought.

 

[jlprk]

I hadn't realized that payroll expenses were not deductible, so I went and looked at Cain's website, islewabel.com.

And yes, he's providing an incentive to minimize salaries. Payments to another company that provides labor overseas? Deductible. Payments to american employees? Not deductible.

Gee, I'll bet that will put america back to work. And this guy is leading in the polls?

I slew Abel dot com. There is no website according to Google. But my search did find opinions that Cain is the Antichrist and that his plan will slay the American taxpayer.

This cartoonish candidate takes credit for inventing a plan donated to him by a Wells Fargo bank employee, who stole it from SimCity programmers, who had created a humorous simplistic tax plan for kids. Cain answers, "I have noooo idea" when asked questions about the plan details.

Republican gimmicks. Smoke and mirrors. In SimCity, you can turn off disasters so that you never have any.