Hinrich or Sessions?

[Rastapopoulos]

Supposing we went for a "vet" PG younger than 30, these two seem the main options. Assume you had to choose between them - who you like?
Hinrich or Sessions?

 

[Cake]

Ray Felton.

 

[bluefrog]

they are pretty close. I picked Hinrich because he is more proven in the NBA.

 

[Idog1976]

Sessions and Hinrich aren't that far apart on defense. On offense Sessions is the better penetrator and passer and Kirk is the better shooter. It appears that Kirk is better at team defense and defense in certain situations whereas Sessions is arguably a better man to man defender. Kirk is vastly better at the 3 ball then Sessions although three point range is something lots of players add to their game over time, court vision and pure god given speed is not. Plus Sessions fits in our window and is good insurance if Bayless doesn't pan out.

Sessions for me and it's not that close.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

For this team to go to the next level we need a vet PG.

I'd go Hinrich but I'd rather have Andre Miller.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I don't know if anyone's posted this, but Brandon Jennings for one thinks the Bucks won't re-sign Sessions:

On next season in Milwaukee ...

Budden: You better worry about Ramon Sessions, diggin' in your a**, pause.
Jennings: He's not going to be here. [inaudible] That money is going to Charlie.
Budden: N****, Ramon Sessions is gonna be there.
Jennings: I doubt it.
Budden: They ain't go no other guards.
Jennings: Ridnour.
Budden: N****, get that bum-a** n**** outta here.
Jennings: He's going to be a backup.
Budden: To who?
Jennings: To who? Who else n****?

Just in case they don't want to rely on just those two, maybe they'd do a swap of one of the three ex-Spurs for Blake. (Would they want Blake back? Was Skiles the coach when Blake got very little PT?) Thomas would suit us and also them because Oberto might retire, and Bowen's deal is non-guaranteed, so they'd want to keep him and waive him.

 

[Idog1976]

For this team to go to the next level we need a vet PG.

I'd go Hinrich but I'd rather have Andre Miller.

We have a young vet PG in Blake. To take it to the next level we need a talented PG who can penetrate and can rack up assists and defend the quicker guards. Sure we could use a shooter who has 3pt range but that is teachable. Veteran status is only a few seasons away where as in a few seasons Hinrich or Miller are done right as our guys reach our prime. Bringing in a Veteran point now means you have unshakable faith in Bayless to develop into the PG for the prime years of our window 2011+. During those years Miller would be ancient and Hinrich on an ever steepening downhill slope. In two years no one will ask which of the three will be better Sessions will be a well known name.

 

[Idog1976]

I don't know if anyone's posted this, but Brandon Jennings for one thinks the Bucks won't re-sign Sessions:



Just in case they don't want to rely on just those two, maybe they'd do a swap of one of the three ex-Spurs for Blake. (Would they want Blake back? Was Skiles the coach when Blake got very little PT?) Thomas would suit us and also them because Oberto might retire, and Bowen's deal is non-guaranteed, so they'd want to keep him and waive him.

New lineup:

PG Sessions/Bayless
SG Rudy/Roy/Bayless
SF Roy/Batum
PF LMA/Kurt Thomas
C Oden/Przybilla

If you like you can add a FA SF to that lineup or if you're bold try and get someone like Gerald Wallace for a package that includes Rudy. I think Blake, Outlaw, a resigned Frye and the rights to some of our stashed Euros and future picks gets Sessions and Thomas in a sign and trade.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

We have a young vet PG in Blake. To take it to the next level we need a talented PG who can penetrate and can rack up assists and defend the quicker guards. Sure we could use a shooter who has 3pt range but that is teachable. Veteran status is only a few seasons away where as in a few seasons Hinrich or Miller are done right as our guys reach our prime. Bringing in a Veteran point now means you have unshakable faith in Bayless to develop into the PG for the prime years of our window 2011+. During those years Miller would be ancient and Hinrich on an ever steepening downhill slope. In two years no one will ask which of the three will be better Sessions will be a well known name.

Blake is a vet, but he only starts by default. Andre Miller is a vet and vastly more talented than Blake.

I also view the vet PG that we do sign as a stop-gap for Jerryd Bayless. Who the team views as the future PG of this team.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I lean Hinrich, but I really like Sessions too ... call it a tossup for me at this point, or whomever ends up being the cheaper to attain (whether that's measured in pieces or cold cash)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If you like you can add a FA SF to that lineup or if you're bold try and get someone like Gerald Wallace for a package that includes Rudy. I think Blake, Outlaw, a resigned Frye and the rights to some of our stashed Euros and future picks gets Sessions and Thomas in a sign and trade.

I'm pretty sure the Bucks wouldn't be interested in a sign and trade. Either they keep Sessions or they let him go to avoid the luxury tax. They don't want to pay the lux. tax and lose him. From the Jefferson trade it's clear they're in salary dump mode.

 

[Idog1976]

I'm pretty sure the Bucks wouldn't be interested in a sign and trade. Either they keep Sessions or they let him go to avoid the luxury tax. They don't want to pay the lux. tax and lose him. From the Jefferson trade it's clear they're in salary dump mode.

I had an evil plan along that front which is to make an offer to the tune of 4 to 5 million for Charlie V forcing them to match worst case scenario you have your back up PF. If they match it then you price them out of Sessions range (6 million per would probably get it done you could go as high as 8 or 9) better to do a sign and trade if Milwaukie is willing after all they are getting cheap contracts in Outlaw and Blake and can they maybe not pick up the option? I'm unclear on that part if they can waive Blake or Outlaw without penalty (presumably waive Blake and keep Outlaw).

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Blake is a vet, but he only starts by default. Andre Miller is a vet and vastly more talented than Blake.

Problem is, his strengths aren't necessarily suited to this team. He works best in a runnings system (like the Nuggets or Philly after Brand went down) and struggles in the half court (Philly looked like a train wreck trying to incorporate Brand). And, of course, he's never learnt the three. And he's ball-dominant. And he's 33 - 2 months older than Raef LaFrentz.

I also view the vet PG that we do sign as a stop-gap for Jerryd Bayless. Who the team views as the future PG of this team.

"The team"? You mean you. I think we'll see in Summer League just how much of a pipedream that is.

 

[Minstrel]

Sessions, quite easily. I think he's already as good as Hinrich (though with different strengths and weaknesses) and has the potential to be a lot better. He's still very young and yet already very productive.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

This is a tough call. It depends on how good you think Bayless will become. I have real doubts still. For this reason I'd have to lean towards Ramon Sessions.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Actually, no.

I've been on the bring-Rubio-to-Portland bandwagon all summer.

KP has Bayless in Ohio working with Greg and now Greg is in Phoenix working out with Bayless. Building chemistry.

I like Sessions, but I think this team needs a vet PG to go to that next level. Look at what (11 year vet) Chauncy Billups did for Denver.

 

[Minstrel]

I like Sessions, but I think this team needs a vet PG to go to that next level. Look at what (11 year vet) Chauncy Billups did for Denver.

Billups helped Denver enormously because he's an excellent player, not because he's an 11 year veteran. If Sessions were currently as good as Billups (he isn't), he'd help Portland about as much, despite his age. Andre Miller and Kirk Hinrich aren't going to have a "Billups effect" because they're not as good. They'll help as much as their talent difference over Blake suggests. As will Sessions.

 

[number 10]

New lineup:

PG Sessions/Bayless
SG Rudy/Roy/Bayless
SF Roy/Batum
PF LMA/Kurt Thomas
C Oden/Przybilla

If you like you can add a FA SF to that lineup or if you're bold try and get someone like Gerald Wallace for a package that includes Rudy. I think Blake, Outlaw, a resigned Frye and the rights to some of our stashed Euros and future picks gets Sessions and Thomas in a sign and trade.

Starting the season with Sessions and Bayless as our only PGs would be disastrous. I'd love to add Sessions, but he's still very unproven, as is Bayless. I don't see why we'd have to give up Blake to sign Sessions, if necessary you could send Freeland/Claver and future picks to the Bucks and keep Blake.

Also, Roy will not start at SF. No effin way.

As for Hinrich vs Sessions, Sessions wins for me. He has a better PER, is younger, probably cheaper, more easily obtainable, and will benefit our bigs (as well as Batum) more than Hinrich.

 

[Idog1976]

Actually, no.

I've been on the bring-Rubio-to-Portland bandwagon all summer.

KP has Bayless in Ohio working with Greg and now Greg is in Phoenix working out with Bayless. Building chemistry.

I like Sessions, but I think this team needs a vet PG to go to that next level. Look at what (11 year vet) Chauncy Billups did for Denver.

Chauncey Billups is on a different level from Andre Miller, Hinrich or for that matter Sessions. Chauncey was a dark horse MVP candidate not too far from Brandon Roy in ranking most of the year. Chauncey is a tier below Chris Paul and arguably Williams and Harris. Billups is easily in the top 10 PG's in the NBA probably more like top 5.

Hinrich and Miller are both mid-level vets nothing special certainly not All-Star caliber. Not that we need it but Sessions has All-Star potential not likely but it's possible as he is quite young. His production is already quite good and he is only 22. Hinrich is in his late 20's and Miller is in his 30's.

Gotta go with Sessions unless you are certain, dead certain, that Bayless will pan out. I think it could easily be Bayless at that point you trade Sessions or vice versa just another young asset to bring in whatever piece puts you over the top. Hinrich and Miller are one shot wonders who give you a couple of years before winding down in Hinrich's case or retiring in Miller's.

 

[Ed O]

I went with Sessions. I'm not a GIANT fan of his, but since I consider him and Hinrich to be of similar levels right now, I would rather gamble on Sessions improving as he approaches his physical prime.

Ed O.

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

I don't know if anyone's posted this, but Brandon Jennings for one thinks the Bucks won't re-sign Sessions:



Just in case they don't want to rely on just those two, maybe they'd do a swap of one of the three ex-Spurs for Blake. (Would they want Blake back? Was Skiles the coach when Blake got very little PT?) Thomas would suit us and also them because Oberto might retire, and Bowen's deal is non-guaranteed, so they'd want to keep him and waive him.

LOL he is friends with Joe Budden. That is cool. I like Jennings even more now. Buddens is a hella good rapper.

 

[andalusian]

I'm pretty sure the Bucks wouldn't be interested in a sign and trade. Either they keep Sessions or they let him go to avoid the luxury tax. They don't want to pay the lux. tax and lose him. From the Jefferson trade it's clear they're in salary dump mode.

They might be interested in a S&T for Blake - Sessions will make more money than Blake and they will have a one year expiring of Blake before they hand the keys to the carriage to Jennings.

 

[Miksaid]

Actually, no.

I've been on the bring-Rubio-to-Portland bandwagon all summer.

KP has Bayless in Ohio working with Greg and now Greg is in Phoenix working out with Bayless. Building chemistry.

I like Sessions, but I think this team needs a vet PG to go to that next level. Look at what (11 year vet) Chauncy Billups did for Denver.

Any updates on how Bayless and Oden are doing?

 

[andalusian]

I trust Hinrich's defense more than Sessions - Hinrich was playing a lot out of position on a weaker defensive team (yep, the Bucks were a better defensive team than Chicago this year) - and yet their defensive win-score per minute is identical - and this was not a good year for Hinrich as he did 2, 3 and 4 years ago - which is somewhat to be expected playing in a different role coming back from injury.

Sessions will be a better offensive guy to create from the dribble - but since I think that Hinrich's defense will be better - especially if he plays mostly PG and is healthy, and since he will easily replace Blake's 3-ball shooting while upgrading the defense - I think he immediately takes us to another level.

The only reason to go for Sessions over Hinrich is if we think Bayless will never pan-out. If the team believes in him - Hinrich is the better option, imho.

For the record - just to give you an idea - looking at defensive win-score per minute - Blake was at around 60% of these other two - and played on a better defensive team. Either one will likely be an upgrade, defensively - but I think that Hinrich will be a bigger one.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I had an evil plan along that front which is to make an offer to the tune of 4 to 5 million for Charlie V forcing them to match worst case scenario you have your back up PF. If they match it then you price them out of Sessions range (6 million per would probably get it done you could go as high as 8 or 9) better to do a sign and trade if Milwaukie is willing after all they are getting cheap contracts in Outlaw and Blake and can they maybe not pick up the option? I'm unclear on that part if they can waive Blake or Outlaw without penalty (presumably waive Blake and keep Outlaw).

Brilliant evil plan. Only problem--what makes you think that no other team would offer more to Villanueva than we would? If (say) OKC offers CV 6M, and then MIL retains Sessions, we lose out on both, as well as a decent portion of the free agency period.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Any updates on how Bayless and Oden are doing?

I haven't heard anything for awhile, but if you want to see an endless stream of "Just ran into Oden at Club X/walking down the street/at the movies" posts just do a search on twitter some time and scroll through. Kind of funny stuff.

 

[Denny Crane]

Brilliant evil plan. Only problem--what makes you think that no other team would offer more to Villanueva than we would? If (say) OKC offers CV 6M, and then MIL retains Sessions, we lose out on both, as well as a decent portion of the free agency period.

Milwaukee would delay matching for two weeks (I think that's the time limit), tying up Portland's cap space for that time. During those two weeks, they'd go all out to resign Sessions if they want to keep him. No Sessions, then they can choose to match and keep CV.

The only worse scenario for someone wanting to sign away Sessions would be to make him an offer and then some other team right away makes CV an offer. This gives Milwaukee two weeks to decide to sign one or both or neither.

Seems to me the best strategy is to make the real offer to the real guy you want. If that's Sessions and the Bucks match, then you can offer CV a contract expecting Milwaukee to let him walk.

 

[Miksaid]

I haven't heard anything for awhile, but if you want to see an endless stream of "Just ran into Oden at Club X/walking down the street/at the movies" posts just do a search on twitter some time and scroll through. Kind of funny stuff.

Good call.

I gave it a shot. Some interesting tweets include:

justinepdx Interesting day at work. Saw the bug guy Greg Oden come through the airport and had a pretty easy day. Alls well.
about 19 hours ago from Tweetie

he's in Portland.

loganalyse Tonight i learned greg oden is tall and girls are Whores
3 days ago from txt

he's having a good summer, I'm glad.

TonyGaul Jusr saw a blazers commercial....Greg Oden fouled me through the TV.
4 days ago from mobile web

funny.

JohnnyCult just saw transformers 2 and it was wicked. pissed how they depicted the twins though. greg oden was in attendance as well
5 days ago from mobile web

how unlucky would you have to be to have an NBA center sit between you and Megan Fox?

megoconn Greg oden is on a date.... At game works. I think he may actually be ten.
6 days ago from txt

he's a cheap date.

 

[LittleAlex]

Milwaukee would delay matching for two weeks (I think that's the time limit), tying up Portland's cap space for that time. During those two weeks, they'd go all out to resign Sessions if they want to keep him. No Sessions, then they can choose to match and keep CV.

The only worse scenario for someone wanting to sign away Sessions would be to make him an offer and then some other team right away makes CV an offer. This gives Milwaukee two weeks to decide to sign one or both or neither.

Seems to me the best strategy is to make the real offer to the real guy you want. If that's Sessions and the Bucks match, then you can offer CV a contract expecting Milwaukee to let him walk.

This would risk being stuck with CV, a player who Portland doesn't really need.