Politics Honest, Fess up?

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A truly excellent post. Thanks.

I understand that most later term abortions historically have been due to health concerns (either for the fetus or the mother) but that doesn't account for all. And those are the ones that bother me. And it's not saying "We know better than women", it's saying the life of the newborn overrides the decisions of the Individual which just happens to be a woman. Now please don't get me wrong, I am pro choice, but this is the problem that I have. I do think that a woman, her loved ones, doctors, clergy are all closer to the situation then the government is and I think overall it's better the decision be left out of the governments prevue. My problem is more theory. I hear pro-choice activists talk about the woman's right to choose, but that comes across as callus without admitting that as time goes on there is a life at stake besides the mother.

And scientifically I don't know where to draw the line. One possible choice is at conception, but to me that's ridiculous. Another option is at the point that the baby could possibly live outside the womb, around 5 months.

Overall, I am just uncomfortable with this as a subject. I feel compassion for the women, what they go through, what they will go through. I also feel for the potential baby. It leaves me without answers. However, without a more definitive scientific guideline that makes sense to me, I would acquiesce to the Woman as the one who knows best her situation.

I share your concerns about late-term abortions, Further. I'm a grandfather to two wonderful, healthy boys who were both premies, born at 31 and 32 weeks respectively. One of them had an identical twin who was severely deformed and that pregnancy had to be terminated early on in order for his brother to survive. Those are the kinds of heart-breaking decisions that parents sometimes have to make even when they dearly want both babies to live. I think that, as crandc says, the vast majority of late term abortions are for medical reasons. But I do have concerns about the few that may be done for any number of reasons that may seem valid to the mother (economic concerns, breaking up with the father, etc.). A mother's right to choose, IMO, should never be questioned when there are sound medical reasons for the decision. But when those reasons don't exist, no matter how small that percentage may be, the baby's simple right to exist has to be a consideration at the point of viability. This issue is so fraught with religious and women's rights issues that I don't know if we'll ever be able to come up with laws that everyone can agree with, but that doesn't mean that we don't keep trying.
 
I get you are uncomfortable. So try googling women who have had late term abortions. Many of them were Catholic and evangelical Christians. One woman described herself as a conservative Republican who has participated in anti-abortion rallies. Read why these women needed late abortions. No one is being callous. A late abortion is very difficult for the woman.

Which are the "other ones" you refer to that are not health concerns? The rape victim who kept saying stress made her periods stop, until 6 months and she had to admit she really did get pregnant from rape? You want to force her to carry to term? The 12 year old who did not recognize pregnancy?

Either the pregnant person decides or someone forces a decision on her against her will. There are really no other alternatives. At least you agree the woman knows her situation better than anyone else.

https://splinternews.com/these-women-needed-late-term-abortions-and-they-want-tr-1793863135

http://beta.latimes.com/opinion/op-...ns-on-medication-abortion-20170228-story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/18/late-term-abortion-experience-donald-trump
 
I had hopes Trump would have the balls to recognize Tzi Ying Wen as president of Taiwan and tell China to fuck off but he back tracked on that one...
Term ain't over yet... :)

I think Obama dropped the ball in Syria when he could've ended it.
This is one of my bigger issues, not Syria per se, but that President Obama had a mandate in 2009 to wreck shop to the Foreign Policy/Military things that the D's said they hated and bring money back into the US. He had the veto-proof Congress. He had support (not that I agreed with it, but whatever) of his Secretaries and nominations for high military office. If he wanted to be more globally liked and isolationist (not that I would, but I understand the logic) he and his team went about it in horrible fashion. Instead, we had more war (under crazier ROE and less chance of ever "winning"), worse recognition of "sides", and a (some might say "continuing", after the Bush years) repeal of our "Might For Right" philosophies in order to supplicate some people's flawed ideas of realpolitik. GTMO could've been shut down on Day One of the administration. We could've "pulled out" of a bunch of places, or given the mandate to "win and go home", but the wretched middle was attempted to be played with little regard for national strategy or 2nd- and 3rd-order effects.

I think all candidates should get equal debate time and exposure...even the Jill Steins and Gary Johnsons....it's not a fair playing field
The reason for my "throwaway" vote...hoping to get to the 5% threshold...
 
But look though... That 1% sliver of Food & Agriculture is where you're looking for fraud. There's lower hanging fruit B. CORPORATE welfare is where we need to trim the fat.

2017_pres_budget_disc_spending_pie.png

I know the stats, just “fessing up” as it were to my incongruent political stance.

There is a person i know who is renting a house from their mom via section 8 (illegal) through his girlfriend, and then renting out rooms in it (illegal) for extra
cash. So the mom gets a fat check from the government every month and the shitbirds live it up. Even though they could afford to pay rent easily.

I know it shouldnt bother me, but it does. My bad i guess.
 
This assumption is bad for us all. Homeless people aren't all "lazy Americans". The VAST MAJORITY of them are mentally ill who were strewn to the wayside by Ronald Reagan.

LOTS of them are Vietnam Veterans...

Were they being lazy when the Hutt had "bone spurs"?
See the post right above yours. I was in a rush and it was easier than editing my post. The lazy people are those of us who can't paint our own kitchen or mow our own yard. That's who I was referring to.

I don't know how much blame Reagan shares but I saw a YouTube video that describes some earlier bill that shoulders a lot of blame for the mental health system being what it is.

Blaming Reagan is certainly what I've heard people say over the years.
 
A truly excellent post. Thanks.

I understand that most later term abortions historically have been due to health concerns (either for the fetus or the mother) but that doesn't account for all. And those are the ones that bother me. And it's not saying "We know better than women", it's saying the life of the newborn overrides the decisions of the Individual which just happens to be a woman. Now please don't get me wrong, I am pro choice, but this is the problem that I have. I do think that a woman, her loved ones, doctors, clergy are all closer to the situation then the government is and I think overall it's better the decision be left out of the governments prevue. My problem is more theory. I hear pro-choice activists talk about the woman's right to choose, but that comes across as callus without admitting that as time goes on there is a life at stake besides the mother.

And scientifically I don't know where to draw the line. One possible choice is at conception, but to me that's ridiculous. Another option is at the point that the baby could possibly live outside the womb, around 5 months.

Overall, I am just uncomfortable with this as a subject. I feel compassion for the women, what they go through, what they will go through. I also feel for the potential baby. It leaves me without answers. However, without a more definitive scientific guideline that makes sense to me, I would acquiesce to the Woman as the one who knows best her situation.

Some interesting information in this analysis from FactCheck.org:

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/clinton-off-on-late-term-abortions/
 
I am obviously a stinking liberal, though it may suprise many of you that I consider myself a moderate liberal. Here are some issues and how I feel about them.

Nuclear War: This concerns me most at the moment in our current political atmosphere. With our president arguing with a leader of a country that is threatning us with nuclear war about who's button is bigger and daring Un to fire missiles at us. Alarming...I mean WTF man.

Living Wage: Minimum wage isn't enough. The rent is too damn high...the lower class is treading water with inflation and small increases in wage. It doesn't do any good to increase wages if inflation is going to cancel it out. People need living wages so they don't habe yo choose between paying the rent\utilities and putting food on the table.

Welfare: It is a neccessary system but one that is flawed. Families keep falling back into the hole that welfare patches up but doesn't really help them get out of. There gave been new sets of rules put in to stop people who would take advantage of the system, but some are too strict and hurt families who aren't taking advantage.

Homeless: This is a tough issue. There are many who choose the homeless life or who have given in and don't care to get off the streets. But, there are many more who have fallen through the cracks and find themselves sleeping on sidewalks and under bridges. I have been there myself and got tired of it quickly. Luckily I had help though, and through hard work was able to get where I am today. But, its not easy. I don't agree with treating homeless people as criminals and shooing them away, putting them in jail, or sending them away on buses to be other cities problems. That doesn't fix anything. Now there are alot of resources here in Portland I know this personally. You couldn't go hungry if you tried. There are shelters but many are overnight only. There are some places where homeless people can stay till they get on their feet. There needd to be more and thats the answer. Get homeless people off the streets and into live in shelters, where they can bathe, clean their clothes, look for work, and save up money to get their own place. Comb the streets for homeless juviniles and get them bavk to their families or into shelters, foster care, etc. Also the rent is too damn high. Alot of people cant afford it with their wages and families lose their apartments\homes and are stuck on the street. Something has to be done.

Education: The public school system has gone to shit. It needs to be revamped. Each year more and more cuts are made. Schools are closed. Teachers are let go. The system of test score jokeying is a joke. Children need to be allowed to be creative. Physical ed, art, drama, and music are important and are continued to be cut. Its a shit show.

Abortion: I don't believe in abortion but I believe its a womans right. I know there are reasons to do so such as health, victims of rape, inability to support the child...I feel though that if a child can be born healthy it should and should be given away for adoption rather than aborted. But again its a wonans choice.

Healthcare: I believe affordable healthcare should be available to everyone who needs it and free healthcare for those who can't afford it. Some people spend their whole checks on rent bills and food and there is nothing left to pay insurance. They shouldn't be left without...and affordable healthcare should not mean shitty healthcare. I dont believe people should be forced to have health care either.
 
How do we handle all of the weed users?
 
Ah yes, let them shoot themselves up with the green stuff until they die... I like it.

You don't shoot up weed. Its not herion
 
Ah yes, let them shoot themselves up with the green stuff until they die... I like it.

All conservatives should be HIGHLY pro-death. Anyone who claims otherwise while not vigorously opposing current conservative policies is just a fucking hypocrite.
 
Where I part with many of my lefty peers is GMO. I think they have the wrong end of the stick. The problem is not that they are unhealthy; they are just as healthy as non-GMO food. And many GMO foods can grow where they would not otherwise. My issue loss of genetic diversity as agriculture increasingly becomes monoculture, so a disease or pest can really wipe out everything, and concentration of agriculture in the hands of a tiny number of huge companies, not GMO per se.

It's my personal belief that the same company that makes DDT shouldn't be allowed to make food. That's just my take. There's also this:

Scientist Who Discovered GMOs Cause Tumors in Rats Wins Landmark Defamation Lawsuit in Paris

Was French Prof. Gilles-Eric Séralini correct when he discovered that scientific feeding experiments past 90 days with GMO food and rats can cause serious health problems including tumors?

The answer to that question has been debated ever since the initial publication of his study, culminating in a republication of the study in another peer-reviewed journal that wasn’t nearly as well covered as the initial retraction was by the mainstream media.

Now, Prof. Séralini is in the news again – this time for winning a major court victory in a libel trial that represents the second court victory for Séralini and his team in less than a month.

On November 25, the High Court in Paris indicted Marc Fallous, the former chairman of France’s Biomolecular Engineering Commission, for “forgery” and the “use of forgery.” The details of the case have not been officially released.

But according to this article from the Séralini website, Fallous used or copied the signature of a scientist whose name was used, without his agreement, to argue that Séralini and his co-workers were wrong in their studies on Monsanto products, including GM corn.

A sentencing for Fallous is expected in June 2016.

Second Court Victory Reached

This was the second such court victory for the professor’s team, following a November 6 victory in a defamation lawsuit over an article in the French Marianne magazine which categorized the Séralini team research as “scientific fraud (you can read more about the case here).”

What few people realize about the original Séralini study on GMOs is that it was only retracted after a serious PR offensive from Monsanto and the Biotech industry, one that included the creation of a whole new position on the original Food and Toxicology journal: Associate Editor for Biotechnology.

The new position was actually filled by a former Monsanto employee who helped convince the journal’s author to retract the study.

Now more than 2 years later, these are the facts: Séralini and his team’s original study has been republished in a different peer-reviewed journal, Environmental Sciences Europe; they have won two key lawsuits against those who have attempted to ruin their reputations; and a recent peer-reviewed letter even asserted that Séralini and his team may have been right after all on their discovery showing tumors in lab rats fed GMOs.

In other words, the jury is still out on GMO safety to say the very least, just as countless independent scientists have warned, and Séralini’s study stands as yet another cause for concern with the ongoing GMO experiment. It also shows the lengths that the Biotech industry will go to in order to discredit any independent science that clashes with their own version of science.

For more on Séralini and his studies, check out the team’s website by clicking on this link.
 
A truly excellent post. Thanks.

I understand that most later term abortions historically have been due to health concerns (either for the fetus or the mother) but that doesn't account for all. And those are the ones that bother me. And it's not saying "We know better than women", it's saying the life of the newborn overrides the decisions of the Individual which just happens to be a woman. Now please don't get me wrong, I am pro choice, but this is the problem that I have. I do think that a woman, her loved ones, doctors, clergy are all closer to the situation then the government is and I think overall it's better the decision be left out of the governments prevue. My problem is more theory. I hear pro-choice activists talk about the woman's right to choose, but that comes across as callus without admitting that as time goes on there is a life at stake besides the mother.

And scientifically I don't know where to draw the line. One possible choice is at conception, but to me that's ridiculous. Another option is at the point that the baby could possibly live outside the womb, around 5 months.

Overall, I am just uncomfortable with this as a subject. I feel compassion for the women, what they go through, what they will go through. I also feel for the potential baby. It leaves me without answers. However, without a more definitive scientific guideline that makes sense to me, I would acquiesce to the Woman as the one who knows best her situation.

Don't be Pro choice. Be Pro Privacy. Be pro small government.
 
I think there needs to be a cutoff date for abortions based on science. Early term abortions don't bug me really like @Further said, when it's a clump of cells. But when that clump of cells has eyes, nose, hair and fingernails and is yawning and sneezing in the womb, I am NOT cool with shoving a coat hanger through its forehead. It seems totally ridiculous to me that people just can't understand that there is a baby in there. It's like out of sight out of mind, just because you can't see it it must be a pile of goo, then the second before it is born it materializes into a baby. If you wouldn't kill a freshly born baby you shouldn't be down to kill a mid to late term "fetus". It's a fucking baby, quit yelling "womens right to choose" to hide the scientific fact that a developed human is being exterminated.
Those cells contain the genetic code to multiply and grow those organs. Hair and eye color have already been determined even if you can't see it. People call it a clump of cells to put their conscience at ease. When it comes to abortion i think we should be able to abort rapists. maybe if we just hung rapists in the streets these predators would think twice before going after someone.
 
People like to cite big giant reasons as why every abortion takes place.
However these big giant reasons are not why every abortion takes place.

Women and I have always had an affinity for one another. We get a long.
Yet, I've never got a woman pregnant. Simply because I nor the women I involve myself with are dumb as rocks.
I'm against abortion completely, unless there is a big giant reason as why one should take place.

I get it that might offend some, that's fine you're welcome to be offended.
I also welcome your opinion, as long as you know full well you won't change my opinion.
I'm also welcome to be offended by you.
At least that's how it should be, though it's not... Not at all.
 
Says the Keebler elf Attorney General.
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens, when some old pieces of shit, try to send some young(er) pleabs, to take livelihood from a bunch of people that love the 2nd Amendment.
 
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens, when some old pieces of shit, try to send some young(er) pleabs, to take livelihood from a bunch of people that love the 2nd Amendment.
People dont realize how many rednecks love their smoke.
 
The states that have legalized marijuana, should activate part of their national guard; for the sole purpose of protecting state citizens, and interests, from a tyrannical government.
 
The states that have legalized marijuana, should activate part of their national guard; for the sole purpose of protecting state citizens, and interests, from a tyrannical government.
I'd say fine with that. We'll secede, problem is there are way too...I mean way way way too many fucking Californians here now. I snuck in from Washington and don't think anyone could tell. Those fucking Californians just ooze asshole. Seriously
 

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