Hope we don't make the same mistake with Leonard as we did with Jermaine... (1 Viewer)

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magnifier661 said:
Personally, I think Leonard was a wasted pick. I actually don't think there is much hope for him to be any better than 6 ppg, 7 rebounds, 1 block (my opinion on his ceiling)
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Do you really think Meyers Leonard's upside is lower than Joel Pryzbilla's peak? Joel's best season was 6.4/7.7/2.1 and his career bests were 6.4/8.7/2.3. Not sure is Meyers will be as good defensively and on the boards are Joel, but he's already a much better offensive player than Joel ever was. He's also much more athletic than Joel. So, he has the POTENTIAL to be a great rebounder and shot blocker. Will he reach his potential? Time will tell, but I think he will average much more than 6 PPG at his peak. He's already averaging 4.1 PPG in 14.7 MPG as an extremely raw 20-year old.

You seem to be all about throwing big bucks at Pekovic. Go back and look at his numbers as a 25-year old rookie who had been playing professionally overseas for several years. Meyers' rookie numbers at 20 are as good as Pekovic's were at 25, he's bigger and more athletic.

I just don't understand why you are so eager to give up on Leonard so quickly. The guy is 20 and has played less than 600 minutes of NBA basketball. Why so impatient? We're not in win now mode. Jermaine played over 2400 minutes in Portland before we traded him for Dale Davis, and many people here think we gave up on Jermaine too soon. It's not like we're going to get anyone who moves the needle for Leonard. Why not keep him a while and see how he develops?

BNM
 
Mediocre Man said:
Chris Mihm is the guy I always think about when I think of comparisons for Meyers.
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Why, because they are white, American born 7-footers? I don't remember Mihm being nearly as athletic as Meyers.

At Mihm's peak he was a starter for two years and averaged 10/6.5/1.3. Would folks here be satisfied with that level of peak production from Leonard? Mihm was the 7th pick and Leonard the 11th (and Joel 9th).

I guess the general question is just what do people expect from Leonard at his peak? What's the minimum he can produce and not be considered a bust? We all knew he was very raw and would need at last 2 - 3 years to develop before he'd be ready to be an NBA starter. What has changed? Why are so many people giving up on him after half a season?

BNM
 
MickZagger said:
As a 20 year old they're putting up similar numbers except that as a 20 year old Jermaine was 3 years into the league.

Oh ya, but Jermaine was black and Meyers is white

12146848180
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On this team, JO would have started at center and plyed 30+ mintes a night. With Sheed, Sabas and Rasta, there were no mintes for him.
 
I think Leonard has all the tools to be a very good center in this league. He's big, athletic and mobile. If he applies himself to learning footwork and focuses on defense before offense, then he'll have a long, lucrative career. Being 7' and not a stiff is a rare commodity in the NBA.
 
maxiep said:
I think Leonard has all the tools to be a very good center in this league. He's big, athletic and mobile. If he applies himself to learning footwork and focuses on defense before offense, then he'll have a long, lucrative career. Being 7' and not a stiff is a rare commodity in the NBA.
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Don't forget the good hands
 
Boob-No-More said:
Why, because they are white, American born 7-footers? I don't remember Mihm being nearly as athletic as Meyers.

At Mihm's peak he was a starter for two years and averaged 10/6.5/1.3. Would folks here be satisfied with that level of peak production from Leonard? Mihm was the 7th pick and Leonard the 11th (and Joel 9th).

I guess the general question is just what do people expect from Leonard at his peak? What's the minimum he can produce and not be considered a bust? We all knew he was very raw and would need at last 2 - 3 years to develop before he'd be ready to be an NBA starter. What has changed? Why are so many people giving up on him after half a season?

BNM
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Because what have you done for me lately?
 
Boob-No-More said:
Do you really think Meyers Leonard's upside is lower than Joel Pryzbilla's peak? Joel's best season was 6.4/7.7/2.1 and his career bests were 6.4/8.7/2.3. Not sure is Meyers will be as good defensively and on the boards are Joel, but he's already a much better offensive player than Joel ever was. He's also much more athletic than Joel. So, he has the POTENTIAL to be a great rebounder and shot blocker. Will he reach his potential? Time will tell, but I think he will average much more than 6 PPG at his peak. He's already averaging 4.1 PPG in 14.7 MPG as an extremely raw 20-year old.

You seem to be all about throwing big bucks at Pekovic. Go back and look at his numbers as a 25-year old rookie who had been playing professionally overseas for several years. Meyers' rookie numbers at 20 are as good as Pekovic's were at 25, he's bigger and more athletic.

I just don't understand why you are so eager to give up on Leonard so quickly. The guy is 20 and has played less than 600 minutes of NBA basketball. Why so impatient? We're not in win now mode. Jermaine played over 2400 minutes in Portland before we traded him for Dale Davis, and many people here think we gave up on Jermaine too soon. It's not like we're going to get anyone who moves the needle for Leonard. Why not keep him a while and see how he develops?

BNM
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Actually I'm on the "get dalembert now" bandwagon. The pek boat sailed after you and others pointed out his lack of defense.

I feel you on his positives. I would rather have a defensive minded center that can set monster picks and block shots. I see Leonard being more like a offensive center. Just not a fan knowing we lack paint defense
 
B-Roy said:
Because what have you done for me lately?
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As in what's he done in the last 8 games? Not much. Hard to make an impact when you're playing less than 8 MPG.

What's odd is he had three really solid games right after he came back from the ankle injury and hasn't been able to get any consistent PT since. Given our incredibly weak bench, makes me wonder what's going on.

Claver and Babbit have been consistently getting more minutes that Leonard, and often Freeland and Jefferies have also been playing more. I know Leonard is raw, but our bench sucks so bad, I'd rather see the 20-year old 7'1" guy getting the PT than the older Euros and the ancient Jefferies. Claver and Jefferies are shooting .320 and .298 from the field for the season. Babbitt is at .359 and Freeland is all the way up to .384. Never in my life I have I seen a group of big men shoot so poorly, but Leonard who is shooting .546 from the field can't get any burn. Seriously?

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
As in what's he done in the last 8 games? Not much. Hard to make an impact when you're playing less than 8 MPG.

What's odd is he had three really solid games right after he came back from the ankle injury and hasn't been able to get any consistent PT since. Given our incredibly weak bench, makes me wonder what's going on.

Claver and Babbit have been consistently getting more minutes that Leonard, and often Freeland and Jefferies have also been playing more. I know Leonard is raw, but our bench sucks so bad, I'd rather see the 20-year old 7'1" guy getting the PT than the older Euros and the ancient Jefferies. Claver and Jefferies are shooting .320 and .298 from the field for the season. Babbitt is at .359 and Freeland is all the way up to .384. Never in my life I have I seen a group of big men shoot so poorly, but Leonard who is shooting .546 from the field can't get any burn. Seriously?

BNM
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I heard on the radio last week that Hughes was not his 'personal coach' anymore, and someone else was being brought in, but then never heard anything more about it.

Maybe Hughes lost Leonard in training camp when he basically called him a headcase to the media, and their relationship has never recovered?

I totally agree about Leonard needing more burn, though. People clobbered Nate for not playing rookies much on playoffs teams (which wasn't really true, anyhow), but a .500 team that is going nowhere fast this year can't find time for a center who has a rare skillset?

Part of me hopes the Blazers fall out of playoff contention soon, start giving Lillard/LMA/Batum some freaking rest, and let a guy with a ton of potential like Leonard get Hickson's minutes after the deadline, assuming Hickson wants to be traded, and it makes sense. If not, just cut Hickson's minutes, because he isn't coming back next year, and get Leonard and Freeland some more PT.
 
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magnifier661 said:
Actually I'm on the "get dalembert now" bandwagon.
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Because we need to rent a 31-year old center for our title run this season? And what would you give up to get him? Don't say Hickson. He vetoes that trade in a heartbeat. With Sanders having a bad back and the Bucks fighting to make the playoffs, they aren't giving us Dalembert for any of our other scraps. We don't have a first round pick any time soon we can offer them, and I wouldn't if we did.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Because we need to rent a 31-year old center for our title run this season? And what would you give up to get him? Don't say Hickson. He vetoes that trade in a heartbeat. With Sanders having a bad back and the Bucks fighting to make the playoffs, they aren't giving us Dalembert for any of our other scraps. We don't have a first round pick any time soon we can offer them, and I wouldn't if we did.

BNM
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Actually I wanted to use Leonard for the trade. And I think we can keep him and hickson this summer
 
Boob-No-More said:
Why, because they are white, American born 7-footers? I don't remember Mihm being nearly as athletic as Meyers.

At Mihm's peak he was a starter for two years and averaged 10/6.5/1.3. Would folks here be satisfied with that level of peak production from Leonard? Mihm was the 7th pick and Leonard the 11th (and Joel 9th).

I guess the general question is just what do people expect from Leonard at his peak? What's the minimum he can produce and not be considered a bust? We all knew he was very raw and would need at last 2 - 3 years to develop before he'd be ready to be an NBA starter. What has changed? Why are so many people giving up on him after half a season?

BNM
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About the same size, Mihm was very athletic, neither defends the rim well. Nothing to do with skin color
 
PapaG said:
I heard on the radio last week that Hughes was not his 'personal coach' anymore, and someone else was being brought in, but then never heard anything more about it.

Maybe Hughes lost Leonard in training camp when he basically called him a headcase to the media, and their relationship has never recovered?

I totally agree about Leonard needing more burn, though. People clobbered Nate for not playing rookies much on playoffs teams (which wasn't really true, anyhow), but a .500 team that is going nowhere fast this year can't find time for a center who has a rare skillset?

Part of me hopes the Blazers fall out of playoff contention soon, start giving Lillard/LMA/Batum some freaking rest, and let a guy with a ton of potential like Leonard get Hickson's minutes after the deadline, assuming Hickson wants to be traded, and it makes sense. If not, just cut Hickson's minutes, because he isn't coming back next year, and get Leonard and Freeland some more PT.
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His college coach also called him a headcase
 
Mediocre Man said:
His college coach also called him a headcase
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Link?

You really dislike the guy. Is it because of your stupid "white American stiff" nonsense, which doesn't apply to Leonard and never did if you had watched any tape on him, or because you actually don't like him for some reason or the other?
 
PapaG said:
Link?

You really dislike the guy. Is it because of your stupid "white American stiff" nonsense, which doesn't apply to Leonard and never did if you had watched any tape on him, or because you actually don't like him for some reason or the other?
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http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...20608_1_meyers-leonard-funny-bone-jae-crowder
Some — including his former coach Bruce Weber at Illinois — have described him as immature. But Leonard has told teams, including those at Thursday's NBA predraft camp at the UIC Pavilion in Chicago, that his emotions are a positive.
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Comparing Meyers to Jermaine is like comparing Nolan to Terry Porter.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Do you really think Meyers Leonard's upside is lower than Joel Pryzbilla's peak? Joel's best season was 6.4/7.7/2.1 and his career bests were 6.4/8.7/2.3. Not sure is Meyers will be as good defensively and on the boards are Joel, but he's already a much better offensive player than Joel ever was. He's also much more athletic than Joel. So, he has the POTENTIAL to be a great rebounder and shot blocker. Will he reach his potential? Time will tell, but I think he will average much more than 6 PPG at his peak. He's already averaging 4.1 PPG in 14.7 MPG as an extremely raw 20-year old.
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that he can hit FTs at a respectable rate could keep him on the floor for the important minutes of the game... IF he develops and earns being out there in the first place. Joel's game + 75% (or better) from the line justifies significant minutes. Unless he's throwing up red flags behind the scenes, I really doubt Portland moves him anytime soon so as to better gauge what they've got. Year 2 should be pretty telling whether things are clicking for him or not

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
that he can hit FTs at a respectable rate could keep him on the floor for the important minutes of the game... IF he develops and justifies being out there in the first place. Joel's game + 75% (or better) from the line justifies significant minutes. Unless he's throwing up red flags behind the scenes, I really doubt Portland moves him anytime soon so as to better gauge what they've got. Year 2 should be pretty telling whether things are clicking for him or not

STOMP
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I agree but the big factor with Joel was the screen setting and knowledge of where to be on defense. If Meyers can't learn those he won't be as effective despite better offense.
 
:hcp: well yeah, I did say... "IF he develops" and then later spoke of things needing to click for him. To state things more clearly... I don't think he's nearly at Joel's best level right now. But if he develops to that general level and also shoots a high percentage from the line (something JP struggled with), Portland will have a valuable piece of the puzzle.

STOMP
 
PapaG said:
No. Not at all.
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He absolutely was athletic

Strengths: Very good offensive game, can score in many ways on the block. Good medium range shooter. 7 footers with his agility are rare. Potential is very good.

Weaknesses: Doesn't always rise to the occasion. Lacks great quickness. Needs to show more emotion, aggresiveness. Not a great athlete but a very good one.

Chris Mihm is a very agile and skilled 7 footer. One of the top center prospects to surface in college in sometime. Mihm has a nice post game, and can bury the mid-range jump shot. He excels on the defensive end and is a very good shot blocker. Chris has all the attributes to be a great NBA center. If he decides to turn pro he will be among the top picks in the NBA draft.

Very good athlete
 
PapaG said:
Most 19 year-olds are 'immature', and I still don't see a quote from Weber.

Keep on digging this hole, though. It's keeping the room active!
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His college coach called him immature. IMO that translates to head case
 
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