Horrible thought: Oden not safe if Pritchard leaves?

[Rastapopoulos]

If it's really the case, as some people have suggested, that part of what's pissed Allen off about Pritchard is his taking Oden over Durant, could it be the case that any following GM will want to dump Oden just to remove the "stain" of the Pritchard era? If anything like this happens, I will find it very hard to care about the Blazers for the forseeable future:

An Oden - Beasley deal? God - I hope not!

Similarly, there did not appear to be much interest from Pritchard in Beasley. But with Pritchard out, could a possible Greg Oden-Beasley deal be considered by the Blazers?"

ESPN Insider Rumors

 

[BrianFromWA]

there aren't a lot of things that would cause me to limit my viewership of games, but that's one of them. Partially b/c it'll contribute to abject mediocrity for a long time. Partially b/c any idiot that would pull that trade off wouldn't stop there.

 

[oldmangrouch]

First, I have to say I enjoy the irony of this thread.

Back on BBF, there was a vocal contingent of posters who were gung-ho to trade LMA for the chance to draft Beasley. Now, nobody wants to touch him. No offense, but some Blazer fans are getting *too* gunshy over maturity/character/personality issues.

Second, whoever is brought in to replace KP will have no reason NOT to trade Oden. He will have no emotional attachment to the kid, and will be able to evaluate him in an objective manner. If he is offered fair value - which is going to be less than some fans think - I would hope he does make a deal. This fiasco is a black cloud hanging over the team, and clearing the air is a perfectly reasonable move. Keep in mind, that between the pending lockout and his pending free agency, his trade value will only go down.

Would you really prefer that the team either over-pay to re-sign him, or let him leave as a FA for nothing??

 

[Boob-No-More]

First, I have to say I enjoy the irony of this thread.

Back on BBF, there was a vocal contingent of posters who were gung-ho to trade LMA for the chance to draft Beasley. Now, nobody wants to touch him. No offense, but some Blazer fans are getting *too* gunshy over maturity/character/personality issues.

Second, whoever is brought in to replace KP will have no reason NOT to trade Oden. He will have no emotional attachment to the kid, and will be able to evaluate him in an objective manner. If he is offered fair value - which is going to be less than some fans think - I would hope he does make a deal. This fiasco is a black cloud hanging over the team, and clearing the air is a perfectly reasonable move. Keep in mind, that between the pending lockout and his pending free agency, his trade value will only go down.

Would you really prefer that the team either over-pay to re-sign him, or let him leave as a FA for nothing??

Talk about irony. If his trade value is going down so damn much, why will they have to overpay to re-sign him? Sign him for fair market value, and if he overcomes his injury woes, you have a dominant center at a rock bottom bargain price. If he continues to suffer more injuries, you're not out that much since you re-signed him when his value was low.

BNM

 

[crandc]

It seems absurd that Allen would fire KP over drafting Oden when by all reports Allen was like a kid on Christmas morning draft day. It was reported he got so antsy over the possiblity the phone might go out that he had 7 separate telephone lines in the "war room" (too bad BP does not have that kind of fail safe back-up). Normally the GM makes the call but he insisted on making the call himself. After all this, he would fire KP for the choice?

I think Oden is pretty safe, how many people would mess with some 7' guy?

 

[BGrantFan]

If Oden is part of the reason Pritchard is getting canned, why the fuck would Oden even want to stay in Portland? If Paul Allen isn't behind Oden, Greg should just demand a trade and get out of this clusterfuck.

 

[BGrantFan]

It seems absurd that Allen would fire KP over drafting Oden when by all reports Allen was like a kid on Christmas morning draft day. It was reported he got so antsy over the possiblity the phone might go out that he had 7 separate telephone lines in the "war room" (too bad BP does not have that kind of fail safe back-up). Normally the GM makes the call but he insisted on making the call himself. After all this, he would fire KP for the choice?

I think Oden is pretty safe, how many people would mess with some 7' guy?

Paul Allen seems like the type of guy who changes his socks 3 times a day. How he felt 3 years ago likely has no relevance on how he feels today. He apparently was fond of Pritchard as well 3 years ago, yet look where we are now.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Talk about irony. If his trade value is going down so damn much, why will they have to overpay to re-sign him? Sign him for fair market value, and if he overcomes his injury woes, you have a dominant center at a rock bottom bargain price. If he continues to suffer more injuries, you're not out that much since you re-signed him when his value was low.

BNM

Can you structure an incentive into a contract for "games played"? Of course I am all for offering Oden a contract extension, but we should be able to say her gets X amount of dollars if he only plays 41 games, X amount of dollars if he plays 60 games, and X amount of dollars if he plays a full 81 games. This would give the Blazers the ability to give him a lot of money if he stays healthy, while only guaranteeing a smaller amount.

 

[BGrantFan]

Can you structure an incentive into a contract for "games played"? Of course I am all for offering Oden a contract extension, but we should be able to say her gets X amount of dollars if he only plays 41 games, X amount of dollars if he plays 60 games, and X amount of dollars if he plays a full 81 games. This would give the Blazers the ability to give him a lot of money if he stays healthy, while only guaranteeing a smaller amount.

Not under the current CBA.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Can you structure an incentive into a contract for "games played"? Of course I am all for offering Oden a contract extension, but we should be able to say her gets X amount of dollars if he only plays 41 games, X amount of dollars if he plays 60 games, and X amount of dollars if he plays a full 81 games. This would give the Blazers the ability to give him a lot of money if he stays healthy, while only guaranteeing a smaller amount.

As I understand it, you can have incentive clauses, and they can save the team actual $$ - however - for purposes of the salary cap, the league will (usually) treat it like guaranteed money. The only exception is for incentive clauses that are waaay out there - eg a bonus for Pryz if he makes the all-star game, or a bonus for Batum if he leads the league in scoring.

I'm not sure where a "games played" fits, or if it is even allowed.

 

[HailBlazers]

First, I have to say I enjoy the irony of this thread.

Second, whoever is brought in to replace KP will have no reason NOT to trade Oden. He will have no emotional attachment to the kid, and will be able to evaluate him in an objective manner. If he is offered fair value - which is going to be less than some fans think - I would hope he does make a deal. This fiasco is a black cloud hanging over the team, and clearing the air is a perfectly reasonable move. Keep in mind, that between the pending lockout and his pending free agency, his trade value will only go down.

You would enjoy this thread. All the grouchy Blazers fans are the black cloud over this team, not a number one pick who's been injured playing the toughest position in the league at 21 years of age. Clearing the air was clearing out the Jail-Blazers era, any GM would be stupid to disrupt our Big 3, they are the face of the franchise

 

[Boob-No-More]

As I understand it, you can have incentive clauses, and they can save the team actual $$ - however - for purposes of the salary cap, the league will (usually) treat it like guaranteed money. The only exception is for incentive clauses that are waaay out there - eg a bonus for Pryz if he makes the all-star game, or a bonus for Batum if he leads the league in scoring.

I'm not sure where a "games played" fits, or if it is even allowed.

Yes, you are correct, contracts can be totally loaded with incentive clauses and, for salary cap purposes, the league classifies those incentives as likely and unlikely.

I don't remember the exact details, or even if they were disclosed, but the contract extension Brandon Roy signed last summer has games played incentive clauses (due to long term concerns about Brandon's heel and knees). I believe the league considered them "likely" so they will count against the cap.

BNM

 

[e_blazer]

Incentives must be structured so that they provide an incentive for positive achievement by the player or team, and are based upon numerical benchmarks (such as points per game or team wins) or generally recognized league honors (such as MVP or all-NBA first team). The numerical benchmarks must be specific -- e.g., a bonus may be based on the player's free throw percentage exceeds 80%, but may not be based on the player's free throw percentage improving over his previous season's percentage. Certain kinds of incentives are not allowed, such as those based on the player being on the team's roster on a specific date, or for a specific length of time. An incentive also cannot be based on the player suiting up for a specific number of games.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q63

 

[RR7]

Weird, then, that Pendergraph's second year becamse guaranteed after appearing in so many games.

 

[BGrantFan]

Weird, then, that Pendergraph's second year becamse guaranteed after appearing in so many games.

That isn't tied into how much money he makes during that season, though. It only guaranteed a contract, which is fine since Pendergraph was a second-round pick.

 

[RR7]

Sure it is. He can either make 800,000, or 0.

 

[RR7]

Also, Nate Robinson missed out on a bonus this season that triggered if he played in at least 58 games and played in the playoffs. He lost 1 million dollars by being benched in two late season games.

 

[BGrantFan]

Sure it is. He can either make 800,000, or 0.

Perhaps I should clarify. He doesn't make X for 20 games, then 2X for 40 games, then 3X for 60 games ... that can't be done under the CBA.

 

[RR7]

well, Nate Robinson had a bonus on his contract for games played.

 

[BGrantFan]

well, Nate Robinson had a bonus on his contract for games played.

I know. I wonder if that has to do with the one-year QO he signed? Or is classified as some sort of bonus on top of his guaranteed salary?

 

[Denny Crane]

IF (that's a big IF) KP is let go or resigns, the next guy has to pick up the pieces and try to make something happen with the cards he's dealt. Not so sure about the Beasley deal, but if the new GM thinks moving on without GO is the plan, shouldn't he be allowed the leeway?

 

[e_blazer]

To me, the thing with Oden is that you have evaluate what you're going to do with him based upon his current situation. You have to get past the fact that he was a #1 pick with huge expectations who, because of injury, hasn't lived up to those dreams...at least thus far. So, what you have, IMO, is an extremely athletic 7 foot player who has recovered from microfracture surgery on one knee and who is in the midst of recovering from a broken kneecap on the other knee. It's a risk going forward with him because of his injury prone rep, but look around the league and tell me how many other center prospects are there out there that have his potential? I can't help but think that there are about 29 other teams around the league that would still leap at the chance to see if he can put his injuries behind him and develop into a dominant center. There are just so few of those around that you just have to take a chance on him. Obviously, you try to get him as inexpensively as possible, but at the end of the day, I can't see any sane GM giving up on this kid.

 

[maxiep]

You would enjoy this thread. All the grouchy Blazers fans are the black cloud over this team, not a number one pick who's been injured playing the toughest position in the league at 21 years of age. Clearing the air was clearing out the Jail-Blazers era, any GM would be stupid to disrupt our Big 3, they are the face of the franchise

Repped. I'm so fucking tired of the whiners

 

[Rastapopoulos]

IF (that's a big IF) KP is let go or resigns, the next guy has to pick up the pieces and try to make something happen with the cards he's dealt. Not so sure about the Beasley deal, but if the new GM thinks moving on without GO is the plan, shouldn't he be allowed the leeway?

Spoken like a fan of another team. And what "pieces"? We're not talking about the Warriors here.

 

[oldmangrouch]

IF (that's a big IF) KP is let go or resigns, the next guy has to pick up the pieces and try to make something happen with the cards he's dealt. Not so sure about the Beasley deal, but if the new GM thinks moving on without GO is the plan, shouldn't he be allowed the leeway?

Bingo.

Why replace KP if the new guy is going to be under orders to slavishly do everything just the way KP would have done it? It makes no frikken sense!

But hey....I'm just a whiner......I have nothing worthwhile to say.

 

[Denny Crane]

Spoken like a fan of another team. And what "pieces"? We're not talking about the Warriors here.

Looking at the way teams in general work, regardless of being a fan of another team, GMs seem to like to hand pick their own players and a coach that will implement a system that uses those players as the GM envisions.

If the new GM comes in and believes the team is the Gasol era Grizzlies redux, you all probably want him to overcome that. Whatever tradeable assets he has, he has to make do with, ya know?

 

[Minstrel]

Why replace KP if the new guy is going to be under orders to slavishly do everything just the way KP would have done it? It makes no frikken sense!

He shouldn't have to do things "just like KP." However, hopefully they get someone smart enough not to dump Oden reflexively...either out of feeling "disappointed" over his production compared to his draft status, or to distance himself from the previous regime. Either approach would be irrational. If he truly did an objective evaluation of Oden's talent and health and made a clear-eyed trade, that's fine. That's his job.

 

[Minstrel]

Looking at the way teams in general work, regardless of being a fan of another team, GMs seem to like to hand pick their own players

It's common, but silly. A GM should neither be emotionally attached to his players (if Pritchard truly is, it's a valid knock against him) nor should he be emotionally attached to the idea of clearing house and getting "his guys." He should always be focused on putting together the best team, even if some of the "previous GM's guys" are part of that team.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

As I understand it, you can have incentive clauses, and they can save the team actual $$ - however - for purposes of the salary cap, the league will (usually) treat it like guaranteed money. The only exception is for incentive clauses that are waaay out there - eg a bonus for Pryz if he makes the all-star game, or a bonus for Batum if he leads the league in scoring.

I'm not sure where a "games played" fits, or if it is even allowed.

They don't have to be particularly unreasonable to be considered unlikely--the benchmark is simply whether or not they were achieved the previous season. For Oden, it could be something as simple as getting 500 rebounds or blocking 100 shots in a season--things he should be able to do if reasonably healthy, but things he's not yet accomplished in his two years here. But like you said, that really only impacts cap space, and since we don't expect to have any for the forseeable future, that shouldn't really matter. I would love to see Oden be given a heavily-incentive-laden extension. Makes all the sense in the world.

 

[oldmangrouch]

He shouldn't have to do things "just like KP." However, hopefully they get someone smart enough not to dump Oden reflexively...either out of feeling "disappointed" over his production compared to his draft status, or to distance himself from the previous regime. Either approach would be irrational. If he truly did an objective evaluation of Oden's talent and health and made a clear-eyed trade, that's fine. That's his job.

Just to clarify, the issue is production vs salary demands - which is related to draft status.

Joel found a home with the Blazers because he is being paid based on production, not his one time status as a lotto pick.

IF Oden actually offers to sign a discounted extension, that's all fine and well. I'll believe it when I see it.