How can we get rid of Batum?

[riverman]

I think that just like last season, guys like Allen Crabbe, Joel Freeland and even Alonzo Gee may make a big leap going into training camp. If you think about guys we have now and project that they'll stay healthy, we're deep as constructed. Crabbe may become way better than Barnes..we don't know but Neil Olshey probably does. Barnes is not a facilitator and has a short fuse. Aldridge, Kaman, Rolo, Leonard, Freeland and DWright are a pretty deep set of bigs or combo bigs. Nico will stifle Barnes the majority of times. I don't see the panic or the advantage and another point is, why make the west better if you were to trade? You just wouldn't want to make the Clippers or Mavs or Spurs or OKC closer to contention. If I did trade a starter, I'd probably try to send him east. Nic could have bigger trade value come February than he does now if the FO were dangling him. I think we've earned the chance to have Nic on the team when he makes the leap to allstar level which could be this coming season. He knows the system now and if he regresses in the fall, he still an asset to trade with an expiring contract. Contract years are often career years for talented players.

 

[riverman]

Nic's offense sucked this season, don't get me wrong, but his assists and defense won us games even with him deferring to other players offensively. His exit interview impressed me. If I'm wrong about him next season, I'll be the first to start a crow eating thread but my gut says he's entering his prime and due to have a healthy season and find his stroke. Nic made Rolo better

 

[Rastapopoulos]

As everybody seems hot to trot for Hibbert (clearly they fell asleep through this season), here's the trade that I'd actually consider for him.
Allegedly they have told him they don't want him back, so it's not like they're likely to hold out for a star. And if we do this before June 30, they can ditch Kaman and really lean on Afflalo and Blake not to opt in.
I'm still not sure I'd want to do it, though, because it would mean we've given up on Rolo, probably my fave current Blazer. So just do it if his agent has demanded the max. Also, you better be sure that Aldridge has is coming back, because if not, there's not much point to getting a non-scoring big man.

 

[BonesJones]

There's no point in trading Nic in Feb. If he's somehow repeating his 2013-14 season then you won't be able to upgrade him because an all star will be untouchable. If he's not hell have no value as a guy on his last year.
Crabbe is another one if those guys with no fire. He can't facilitate, or create his own shot and maybe that changes but don't count in it
I've given up on Freeland. He's what 28? 29? And he has absolutely no offensively game to speak of and is barely an above average defender.
I like Gee, but he's not young anymore either. He's my favorite out of those 3.

 

[BonesJones]

As everybody seems hot to trot for Hibbert (clearly they fell asleep through this season), here's the trade that I'd actually consider for him.
Allegedly they have told him they don't want him back, so it's not like they're likely to hold out for a star. And if we do this before June 30, they can ditch Kaman and really lean on Afflalo and Blake not to opt in.
I'm still not sure I'd want to do it, though, because it would mean we've given up on Rolo, probably my fave current Blazer. So just do it if his agent has demanded the max. Also, you better be sure that Aldridge has is coming back, because if not, there's not much point to getting a non-scoring big man.

yeah that would tie us up though and we'd only take a small step forward. I would want a little more withan Hibbert, but they don't have much

 

[blue9]

I think he spent the year sabotaging every one this organizations goals and efforts.

Wow. This is one of the stupidest things I've read in these forums. And that's saying A LOT! Well done.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I've given up on Freeland. He's what 28? 29? And he has absolutely no offensively game to speak of and is barely an above average defender.

Last time I looked (and it was before the end of the season but after the all-star break) Freeland actually graded out as our very best defender on the whole team.

 

[tester551]

that's the tricky thing about trading Nic, you trade him if you can find a decent enough replacement at SF that makes it worth upgrading center. I gauruntee that if DeAndre Jordan agreed to a contract with us, then wed sign and trade Batum for him and Barnes. They'll have no cap space anyway, and trading Barnes for Nic is an upgrade. We do it because it gives us the space to resign Wes, and Barnes brings attitude that this team needs. You can't just wheel and deal Nic for just anything, it would have to be a small step backwards to take a bigger step forwards, which is tricky, but I think NO will know what to do.

Which Barnes are you referring to? Matt Barnes is under contract with the Clips for next year & Harrison Barnes is also under contract with GS next year.

 

[riverman]

There's no point in trading Nic in Feb. If he's somehow repeating his 2013-14 season then you won't be able to upgrade him because an all star will be untouchable. If he's not hell have no value as a guy on his last year.
Crabbe is another one if those guys with no fire. He can't facilitate, or create his own shot and maybe that changes but don't count in it
I've given up on Freeland. He's what 28? 29? And he has absolutely no offensively game to speak of and is barely an above average defender.
I like Gee, but he's not young anymore either. He's my favorite out of those 3.

Joel Freeland just turned 27 and when healthy he had the best defensive rating on the team...we were 8-0 with Crabbe starting for Batum and he's an above average defender who didn't have plays run for him on offense. Pretty good rebounder for his size as well and he's a lot taller than CJ. Crabbe played better with the starting unit than with the bench. He also went months at a time without playing enough to break a sweat. He could be next seasons Meyers. He's only been here 2 years. Meyers is headed to his 4th season.

 

[BonesJones]

Joel Freeland just turned 27 and when healthy he had the best defensive rating on the team...we were 8-0 with Crabbe starting for Batum and he's an above average defender who didn't have plays run for him on offense. Pretty good rebounder for his size as well and he's a lot taller than CJ. Crabbe played better with the starting unit than with the bench. He also went months at a time without playing enough to break a sweat. He could be next seasons Meyers. He's only been here 2 years. Meyers is headed to his 4th season.

Meyers is an athletic 7'1 big man with the touch of a shooting guard. We shouldn't an above average shooter and defender to make the same jump. I guess Freeland is a better mid range shooter than I give him credit for, because it seems like I've seen 20 of his little jumpshots and 1 or 2 went in. His percentages say otherwise

 

[BonesJones]

Which Barnes are you referring to? Matt Barnes is under contract with the Clips for next year & Harrison Barnes is also under contract with GS next year.

"I gauruntee that if DeAndre Jordan agreed to a contract with us, then wed sign and trade Batum for him (Jordan) and Barnes. They'll (LAC) have no cap space anyway, and trading Barnes for Nic is an upgrade. We do it because it gives us the space to resign Wes"

 

[BonesJones]

Last time I looked (and it was before the end of the season but after the all-star break) Freeland actually graded out as our very best defender on the whole team.

Very small sample size and minutes against mostly backups, that's why

 

[riverman]

It's not easy to come off the bench cold and show fire with long stretches of inactivity. Crabbe was Pac 12 player of the year before we drafted him and has a good stroke. He just deferred to the vets because that's what he was supposed to do. He has talent and is unselfish.

 

[riverman]

"I gauruntee that if DeAndre Jordan agreed to a contract with us, then wed sign and trade Batum for him (Jordan) and Barnes. They'll (LAC) have no cap space anyway, and trading Barnes for Nic is an upgrade. We do it because it gives us the space to resign Wes"

I'm not a huge fan of Jordan or Barnes but apparently you are..to each his own. Jordan will not be in the game when it counts more than likely so he's sort of a half a game expensive guy who can't make free throws but blocks shots...I'll take the freethrows and in no way do I believe Matt Barnes is better than Nic

 

[BonesJones]

It's not easy to come off the bench cold and show fire with long stretches of inactivity.

thats true. I just think that Crabbe isn't good enough to be a steady minute guy on a contending team. If he plays out of position at SF and ends up our backup, then we won't be contenders

 

[riverman]

Very small sample size and minutes against mostly backups, that's why

This isn't remotely true. Freeland played substantial minutes against elite bigs everytime he was healthy and with good results.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm not a huge fan of Jordan or Barnes but apparently you are..to each his own. Jordan will not be in the game when it counts more than likely so he's sort of a half a game expensive guy who can't make free throws but blocks shots...I'll take the freethrows and in no way do I believe Matt Barnes is better than Nic

I think a 3 minute stretch in the 4th with Leonard at the 5 is worth the productive 30+ minutes he'd play per game. And in no way is Barnes as good as Nic, but he is worth the upgrade at center and being able to resign Wes.

 

[BonesJones]

This isn't remotely true. Freeland played substantial minutes against elite bigs everytime he was healthy and with good results.

exactly... and 12 minutes a game isnt substantial, with most of those minutes coming against backups, not starters like you say. You're making it sound like he should've started over Lopez

 

[riverman]

exactly... and 12 minutes a game isnt substantial, with most of those minutes coming against backups, not starters like you say. You're making it sound like he should've started over Lopez

Now you're exaggerating. Joel, like CJ has had a stuttered place in the rotation because of injuries, not because of lack of value. If you don't value a guy or like his game that's all fine but not for the reason you have presented. These guys are role players and accept it without complaining. Team's need them. We have them.

 

[BonesJones]

Now you're exaggerating. Joel, like CJ has had a stuttered place in the rotation because of injuries, not because of lack of value. If you don't value a guy or like his game that's all fine but not for the reason you have presented. These guys are role players and accept it without complaining. Team's need them. We have them.

I just don't think Freeland is the best defender on the team like the stats say. I don't wanna rely on unproven role players stepping up next year, because that means we wouldn't be contending.

 

[riverman]

Without injuries we're contending last season. Why would that change next season if everyone came back and stayed healthy? With a full healthy squad we were top 3 defensively in the league. That includes the role players. We will probably see roster changes this off season but not because our team wasn't good enough. Rather because we had injuries to DWright, Aldridge, Freeland, Lopez, Kaman, CJ, Afflalo, Wes and Nico...that's a lot to overcome

 

[PDXFonz]

Has anyone suggested pushing him out of the airlock?

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I just don't think Freeland is the best defender on the team like the stats say. I don't wanna rely on unproven role players stepping up next year, because that means we wouldn't be contending.

You don't have to as most wouldn't (and probably for good reason). However, that is different then saying he is barely an above average defender which is false imo.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I'm not a huge fan of Jordan or Barnes but apparently you are..to each his own. Jordan will not be in the game when it counts more than likely so he's sort of a half a game expensive guy who can't make free throws but blocks shots...I'll take the freethrows and in no way do I believe Matt Barnes is better than Nic

Neil Olshey is a big fan of DeAndre Jordan.

 

[BonesJones]

Without injuries we're contending last season. Why would that change next season if everyone came back and stayed healthy? With a full healthy squad we were top 3 defensively in the league. That includes the role players. We will probably see roster changes this off season but not because our team wasn't good enough. Rather because we had injuries to DWright, Aldridge, Freeland, Lopez, Kaman, CJ, Afflalo, Wes and Nico...that's a lot to overcome

we didn't have the intensity to contend. A good regular season doesn't mean we're contenders. We were missing one guy in the first round and couldn't get close to matching the intensity of Memphis.

 

[riverman]

we didn't have the intensity to contend. A good regular season doesn't mean we're contenders. We were missing one guy in the first round and couldn't get close to matching the intensity of Memphis.

We were missing more than one guy in the first round and playing a hobbled Afflalo, Kaman with a back injury, Wes with a broken achilles and Lamarcus with one thumb and DWright out for the season..did you even watch the team dude?

 

[OneLifeToLive]

we didn't have the intensity to contend. A good regular season doesn't mean we're contenders. We were missing one guy in the first round and couldn't get close to matching the intensity of Memphis.

Why do you think that is?

Why wouldn't we be motivated to advance? Intensity comes down to motivation.

 

[riverman]

Memphis was clicking and the second best defense in the league. They deserve some credit. You win as a team and lose as a team. Yeah, we lost but really, they won.

 

[Orion Bailey]

we didn't have the intensity to contend. A good regular season doesn't mean we're contenders. We were missing one guy in the first round and couldn't get close to matching the intensity of Memphis.

When you watch players g down around you, it is VERY easy to have some doubt set in, lose some intensity, sat questioning the season, etc.
Before the injury to Rolo ( the first major injury we had last year I think), I thought our overall intensity was much better than after the injuries started happening.

We did build some deficits, but we came back from them, and you dont come back from those double digit leads without some intensity, fire and drive. I remember thinking at one point... wow, are we really on the same plain as the Spurs? Do we really have that much control of the game, that we can take it easy at first and then stomp teams in the second half?
Well, my questions were answered, but I don't think it was because the team gave up, I think it was due t al the injuries playing fatigue on he team.

I didnt quote it, but someone said intensity is the same thing as motivation and I disagree. I see players and know people who are intense without a purpose. I think Trob was a great example of this.
I also know those who are not intense, super passive, but once the path is paved, do not quit no matter what.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Without injuries we're contending last season. Why would that change next season if everyone came back and stayed healthy? With a full healthy squad we were top 3 defensively in the league. That includes the role players. We will probably see roster changes this off season but not because our team wasn't good enough. Rather because we had injuries to DWright, Aldridge, Freeland, Lopez, Kaman, CJ, Afflalo, Wes and Nico...that's a lot to overcome

Well tell that to Paul Allen & Neil Olshey. This could very well be an off season like the one were the Blazers traded Brien Grant for Shawn Kemp. A whole lot of what if's & why? Better yet you might want to tell that to LMA also.