How did the Blazers Arrive At Mediocrity and Where Do They Go From Here?

[riverman]

I don't take these topics too seriously as to the team's status ..I just want to be invested in the roster and coach.....a lot of things are pure crap shoot in sports anyway...win some...lose some...Crabbe could've been a Donovan Mitchell his rookie season but he wasn't...I don't regret moving him at all. Pat Connaughton might be the next Joe Kleine.....Zach Collins might be the next Tom Chambers and Caleb Swannigan might turn into Jerome Kersey....bring it on! Enjoy what you can along the ride and watch it play out. I do think players come here and get better. Just really thankful Dame is driving the car....he's got my vote for the duration

 

[Hobbesarable]

Only because David Robinson suffered a season ending injury during the 6th game of the season. The year before they won 59 and they year before that, 62. They were already contenders before they drafted Duncan, but he put them over the top.

They basically added a once a generation player to a 60-win team. Most teams that win the lottery don't already have one of the top 50 players of all time on their roster. It was a unique combination of circumstances that hasn't been duplicated since.

Since Duncan, the only top 3 draft picks to win an NBA championship for the team that drafted them are LeBron James and Kyrie Irving, and that took LeBron leaving so CLE could get the #1 pick three times during his four year abscence, and then coming back and finally winning a title 9 years after being drafted. Again, an unprecedented set of circumstances.

In fact, of the 60 top 3 picks since Duncan was drafted, only 6 have won an NBA title (LeBron, Kyrie, Pau, Bogut, Adam Morrison and Durant). Pau and Morrison won with the Lakers. Bogut and Durant won with GSW.

So, twenty years, six future champions for three organizations and only one that tanked their way to a title (CLE and they had to tank once to get LeBron and tank for four more years before he came back).

Winning the lottery isn't nearly the panacea many in the pro tank crowd would have you believe. Sucking bad enough to get a top 3 pick is much more likely to be followed by several more years of sucking, followed by your top 3 pick getting fed up and leaving to have a better chance at winning a ring elsewhere.

BNM

Yes, I remember that season quite well.

It'll be interesting to see how Olshey will improve our roster by the trade deadline and by the draft (if he lasts that long). He'll certainly need to be creative with trades and/or draft picks as most high-end quality players do not join our team through FA.

 

[riverman]

Olshey is definitely in damage control mode...he's got to fix a few miscues soon.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Olshey is definitely in damage control mode...he's got to fix a few miscues soon.

He has no one to blame but himself. He has placed himself in the unenviable position of needing to cut salary and improve the team at the same time.

He miraculously managed to do both at the trade deadline last year, by getting Nurk. The bloom is off that rose.

Can he pull another one out of his ass for the second straight year? If he wants to keep his job, he'd better.

BNM

 

[riverman]

He has no one to blame but himself. He has placed himself in the unenviable position of needing to cut salary and improve the team at the same time.

He miraculously managed to do both at the trade deadline last year, by getting Nurk. The bloom is off that rose.

Can he pull another one out of his ass for the second straight year? If he wants to keep his job, he'd better.

BNM

This to me is the reason Dame went straight to Paul...bosses boss move

 

[dviss1]

Lies. Revisionist history.

There were many. And they were arrogant when I immediately opposed. They said, Olshey is authority, so he must be right. Or, Olshey has just begun his changes. Or, just be a lazy thinker like me.

First of all, don't ever fuckin call me a liar. That SURELY is a personal attack and I never lie. Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

2nd, I don't remember a single poster being on board with those changes. Save I guess BFW who just admitted it.

 

[jlprk]

First of all, don't ever fuckin call me a liar. That SURELY is a personal attack and I never lie. Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

2nd, I don't remember a single poster being on board with those changes. Save I guess BFW who just admitted it.

My current years-long campaign is to get the board to see that McCollum can't stay, if we are to ever extend a contract or sign someone new.

In a couple of years, when the bare majority finally agree, I'll see posts saying, "No one ever disagreed with you. Everyone always wanted him gone. I don't remember a single poster who wanted to keep him. And use wording like 100% severely absolutely almost on-purpose wrong, not lie."

In 2002-03, in every city all over the world people marched against Bush's approaching attack on Iraq. Here in Bellingham, for months when you drove on the freeway, every overhead bridge had people waving signs at traffic below. Many city councils agreed, and the sanctuary movement was born to resist the Federal government. After a couple of years of hundreds of thousands of Iraq killings and tortures, war proponents were saying in the media, "But but, Saddam didn't deny strongly enough that he had WMDs. He only said it 5 times instead of 50. No one had a clue that he had no WMDs, since the UN inspectors which included retired US military experts must have been lying. It was well-publicized that he had no missiles that could reach Israel, much less the U.S., but it follows logically that we should start an unprovoked 30-year war." It's called revisionist history.

 

[e_blazer]

My current years-long campaign is to get the board to see that McCollum can't stay, if we are to ever extend a contract or sign someone new.

In a couple of years, when the bare majority finally agree, I'll see posts saying, "No one ever disagreed with you. Everyone always wanted him gone. I don't remember a single poster who wanted to keep him. And use wording like 100% severely absolutely almost on-purpose wrong, not lie."

In 2002-03, in every city all over the world people marched against Bush's approaching attack on Iraq. Here in Bellingham, for months when you drove on the freeway, every overhead bridge had people waving signs at traffic below. Many city councils agreed, and the sanctuary movement was born to resist the Federal government. After a couple of years of hundreds of thousands of Iraq killings and tortures, war proponents were saying in the media, "But but, Saddam didn't deny strongly enough that he had WMDs. He only said it 5 times instead of 50. No one had a clue that he had no WMDs, since the UN inspectors which included retired US military experts must have been lying. It was well-publicized that he had no missiles that could reach Israel, much less the U.S., but it follows logically that we should start an unprovoked 30-year war." It's called revisionist history.

The trouble with these diatribes is that the most important information is missing.

Trade CJ.

Gotta trade CJ.

REALLY, REALLY, ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO TRADE CJ!!!!

WHO FOR?

Without knowing what the deal is it’s all just BS.

 

[LayneStaley]

“How did the Blazers Arrive At Mediocrity?”

IT ALL STARTED WITH THE JERMAINE O’NEAL TRADE.

 

[H.C.]

Lies. Revisionist history.

There were many. And they were arrogant when I immediately opposed. They said, Olshey is authority, so he must be right. Or, Olshey has just begun his changes. Or, just be a lazy thinker like me.

No.
There were many who said Portland couldn't continue to let talent walk away for nothing with pertaining to the Crabbe contract.
Over the first 5 pages of 'evan turner becomes a blazer' thread. No one was happy. There were people trying to look at the positive but no one was happy.
Also no one thought Nards would get a contract.

@dviss1 isn't the one with revisionist history. You are.

 

[e_blazer]

Don’t most teams achieve mediocrity at some point? The question for a good GM is can you make the moves needed to get elite from that point, or is the cupboard so bare of assets that tearing it apart and going down into the lottery is the only option.

 

[LayneStaley]

Don’t most teams achieve mediocrity at some point?

Yes but 17 years is a long time to stay there.

 

[e_blazer]

Yes but 17 years is a long time to stay there.

That’s a pretty cynical view of Blazers history. A core built around Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Batum, Matthews, etc. would certainly have been a contending team absent injuries. Only Monday morning quarterbacks can fault the effort there to excel.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yes but 17 years is a long time to stay there.

me·di·o·cre - of only moderate quality; not very good, of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate.

A team that wins 54 games and advances to the second round does not meet the definition of mediocre. They may not be a title contender, but neither are they "not very good", nor "barely adequate".

BNM

 

[LayneStaley]

That’s a pretty cynical view of Blazers history. A core built around Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Batum, Matthews, etc. would certainly have been a contending team absent injuries. Only Monday morning quarterbacks can fault the effort there to excel.

The most memorable part of those teams you mention, other than injuries, is the Roy led comeback in Game 4 of a First round series that we ended up losing. MEDIOCRE

 

[BrianFromWA]

Yes but 17 years is a long time to stay there.

Pretty sure we went about 27 years, going to the playoffs 26 of those 27, never even playing in the draft lottery unless we made a big trade, losing in the 1st round 20 of those 26...

and had a world-record sellout streak doing it.

 

[e_blazer]

The most memorable part of those teams you mention, other than injuries, is the Roy led comeback in Game 4 of a First round series that we ended up losing. MEDIOCRE

That team never had a chance to show its worth due to injuries. If you use the results of a damaged team as your measuring stick, you’re just looking to be bitter.

 

[H.C.]

That’s a pretty cynical view of Blazers history. A core built around Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Batum, Matthews, etc. would certainly have been a contending team absent injuries. Only Monday morning quarterbacks can fault the effort there to excel.

You could take it a step further.
A core of Lillard, Matthews, Batum, Aldridge, Rolo were contenders before Matthews went down with his torn acl.
Sure they had a lul before Matthews went down, but every contending team has luls.
There is no reason to believe this lineup wouldn't have figured it out.

 

[LayneStaley]

That team never had a chance to show its worth due to injuries. If you use the results of a damaged team as your measuring stick, you’re just looking to be bitter.

Which season of that team would you like me to use?

 

[riverman]

“How did the Blazers Arrive At Mediocrity?”

IT ALL STARTED WITH THE JERMAINE O’NEAL TRADE.

and now everyone wants an old Dale Davis again

 

[LayneStaley]

You could take it a step further.
A core of Lillard, Matthews, Batum, Aldridge, Rolo were contenders before Matthews went down with his torn acl.
Sure they had a lul before Matthews went down, but every contending team has luls.
There is no reason to believe this lineup wouldn't have figured it out.

Are we really at the point where instead of talking about the great teams we had we have to talk about what MIGHT have happened? What if no one else in the entire league got hurt that year? Would we still have our “what if championship”?

Ok I’m done, I’m over 100, I’ll quit fucking with the koolaid.

 

[Mediocre Man]

That’s a pretty cynical view of Blazers history. A core built around Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Batum, Matthews, etc. would certainly have been a contending team absent injuries. Only Monday morning quarterbacks can fault the effort there to excel.

Not at all. Pritchard gambled on players with injury history. Roy's knees were trash when we drafted him, and I have personally seen Oden's pre draft meds. His knees drew red flags from literally 1/2 the teams in the league. While I honked once, I certainly wouldn't have had I seen the pics like Pritchard did.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Not at all. Pritchard gambled on players with injury history. Roy's knees were trash when we drafted him, and I have personally seen Oden's pre draft meds. His knees drew red flags from literally 1/2 the teams in the league. While I honked once, I certainly wouldn't have had I seen the pics like Pritchard did.

Wouldn't have thought that. Wasn't his MF the first knee injury he'd ever had? And he beasted on Noah/Horford in the NCAA Finals.

Then again, when guys like Simmons say that he didn't even walk straight, I guess there's something to body kinematics.

 

[e_blazer]

Are we really at the point where instead of talking about the great teams we had we have to talk about what MIGHT have happened? What if no one else in the entire league got hurt that year? Would we still have our “what if championship”?

Ok I’m done, I’m over 100, I’ll quit fucking with the koolaid.

Every year is a “might” in professional sports. No matter how great of a roster you build, you’re only an injury or two from mediocre.

 

[riverman]

Wouldn't have thought that. Wasn't his MF the first knee injury he'd ever had? And he beasted on Noah/Horford in the NCAA Finals.

Then again, when guys like Simmons say that he didn't even walk straight, I guess there's something to body kinematics.

I think his wrists were injured in college but don't recall knee problems...he's just breakable..bone density or something...broke my heart when him and Roy both went down

 

[LayneStaley]

One leg being 3 inches longer(or whatever it was) than the other should of raised a flag, especially coupled with the best predraft workout blazer officials had ever seen(Durant).

 

[e_blazer]

Wouldn't have thought that. Wasn't his MF the first knee injury he'd ever had? And he beasted on Noah/Horford in the NCAA Finals.

Then again, when guys like Simmons say that he didn't even walk straight, I guess there's something to body kinematics.

Here’s a really good summary of the injuries for the “frail” Blazers of that era. There were some risks taken, but MM’s recollections don’t seem to match the record real closely:

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/01/trail_blazers_injury_woes_how.html

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[THE HCP]

One leg being 3 inches longer(or whatever it was) than the other should of raised a flag, especially coupled with the best predraft workout blazer officials had ever seen(Durant).

You DO realize the Sonics tried to swap picks so they could get Greg right? You also realize 27 of the 29 other teams would have taken Greg first as well right? Horrible luck, but not anything you can blame the organization for really.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Wouldn't have thought that. Wasn't his MF the first knee injury he'd ever had? And he beasted on Noah/Horford in the NCAA Finals.

Then again, when guys like Simmons say that he didn't even walk straight, I guess there's something to body kinematics.

Yes, he was a beast. His knees, before mf surgery, were messed up. He had damaged cartilage well before we drafted him. His hips were also out of alignment, and one leg is shorter than the other. What really pisses me off about that pick is if you suspect there might be issues, there happened to be 1a player in this draft.