How do we fix the bench?

[Natebishop3]

We've seen a decrease in production from the bench recently. We've seen a few threads on Rudy, Bayless, and Martell struggling as of late. There's been a lot of speculation about Rudy and why he's slumping so bad right now.

How do we fix this? Our second team is very different now than it was last year. In 08-09 we had Sergio, Rudy, Outlaw, Frye, and Joel. In 09-10 we have Bayless, Rudy, Martell, Pendergraph, and Howard.

What's the difference? Bayless has been an upgrade over Sergio in scoring, but he struggles to get his teammates involved. One thing I liked about Sergio was that he pushed the ball and got Rudy involved in the offense. We have seen a completely different Rudy this season, and it's obvious that Sergio played a large part in that transformation.

Sergio in 08-09
4.5 ppg, 3.6 apg, 1.6 rpg, 39% from the floor, 1.49 TO per game.

Bayless in 09-10
8.6 ppg, 2.3 apg, 1.6 rpg, 41.9% from the floor, 1.2 TO per game.

Howard has actually been an upgrade over Joel in scoring, but obviously he gives up quite a bit in defense because he's playing out of position.

Outlaw is the biggest difference. I'll admit, I haven't been a fan of Outlaw since his rookie season. He drove me nuts with his lapses on defense and his ill-advised shooting. Travis is one-dimensional, but that one-dimension is one that we are missing badly right now. While he was wildly inconsistent, he had the ability to come into a game and make shots when nobody else was hitting. He could create his own offense when nothing else was going right. Martell can't do that. Rudy can't do that. Bayless is struggling to do that.

I maintain that Travis was a liability because of his lapses on offense and defense, but we have sorely missed his scoring. What does this mean? It means we need someone like Travis on our bench. Or we need a point guard like Sergio who pushes the ball and gets his teammates involved.

The core of our problem on the bench right now is that we have two scorers who play off the ball and need a point guard who can feed them in scoring position. Rudy and Martell are too similar to be effective without someone like Sergio. J-Bay just isn't the guy to play with those two players.

How can we fix this before the playoffs? I think Nate will have to try to keep Miller on the floor as much as he can with the second unit. Sub Rudy in for Roy and then Roy in for Miller. Bayless will probably see his minutes decrease during the playoffs. We have to have someone on the floor who can create their own offense if called upon to do so.

In conclusion, I'm not saying we should have kept Sergio or Travis, but I think we need to find players with similar attributes. If we are keeping Rudy and Martell on the second unit past this season, we need a point guard who will push the ball and distribute. We need another scorer who can create their own shot.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

The core of our problem on the bench right now is that we have two scorers who play off the ball and need a point guard who can feed them in scoring position. Rudy and Martell are too similar to be effective without someone like Sergio. J-Bay just isn't the guy to play with those two players.

How can we fix this before the playoffs?

One word--Diener!

 

[MIXUM]

make a trade(s) in the off season. One thing has become painfully clear this season.... our bench is waaaayyyyy overrated. All that great depth we once thought we had has become very mediocre to below average.

We need a jason terry/james harden type off the bench. at the moment we have nobody whos gonna impact a playoff game.

 

[Wheels]

re-sign Travis!!!!!!

 

[Natebishop3]

make a trade(s) in the off season. One thing has become painfully clear this season.... our bench is waaaayyyyy overrated. All that great depth we once thought we had has become very mediocre to below average.

We need a jason terry/james harden type off the bench. at the moment we have nobody whos gonna impact a playoff game.

I don't think it's overrated. It's a completely different bench rotation than it was a year ago. The only holdover is Rudy. Bayless was out of the rotation. Martell was injured. Howard is new. Pender is new. Cunningham is new.

There's no question that Rudy, Webster, and Bayless are talented. The problem is that they are three players that really do not compliment each other. If we had a distributing point guard and a post-presence with either Rudy or Webster, I think the second unit would be much more effective.

 

[RR7]

I dunno if there is a fix for the playoffs, other than having one of Miller and Roy on the floor at all times. I don't want to see Rudy, Bayless and Martell out there together again. That's not a good lineup.

I agree that we miss Travis' scoring, but I don't think it's necessarily Travis, so much as having another option. Our issue was, is, and has been that all of our bench players are pretty inconsistent. But if you have enough of them, there's the hope that one of them would be on, and help the team. Between Rudy, Bayless, Outlaw, Sergio(with assists, more than his scoring), one would generally get going. We lack a true 6th man that a lot of teams have that they can rely on. Manu is an extreme case, but someone like that. We can't really rely on Rudy. Or bayless. Or Webster. Or even Outlaw, when he was here. What we've been relying on is one of them being on. And when they're not, we struggle. It's more the approach, it seems, of taking a handful of darts and throwing them at the board, and hoping one will hit the mark.

Again, in the playoffs, I think you keep Roy or Miller out there at all times.

In the offseason, I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[MIXUM]

i think outlaw coming back here is very real. nobody is gonna give that much money. he loves broy and LA so im sure they will push him. he could be exactly what we need as afar as offense goes off the bench.

and i think camby is a must have.

 

[RoyToy]

I don't think the team can bring him back even if they wanted to, but I'm not sure.

 

[RR7]

Mike Miller would be a real good option as a 6th man for this team next season. Be a great backup 2/3 if Rudy isn't around.

 

[RR7]

I don't think the team can bring him back even if they wanted to, but I'm not sure.

They can sign him as a free agent with the MLE.

 

[RoyToy]

They can sign him as a free agent with the MLE.

If that's the case then I'd be more than open to it.

I'd hate to think he could take playing time away from Batum, but I always thought Outlaw played a role on this team. He just did things that would drive you absolutely crazy, and yeah, it hurt the team a lot of times. But he still provided a scoring spark off the bench and he has great length and athleticism.

 

[OddEnormous]

Three Words: NBA LEAGUE PASS

 

[Wheels]

If that's the case then I'd be more than open to it.

I'd hate to think he could take playing time away from Batum, but I always thought Outlaw played a role on this team. He just did things that would drive you absolutely crazy, and yeah, it hurt the team a lot of times. But he still provided a scoring spark off the bench and he has great length and athleticism.

I think he would be ok getting the 13 mpg or so at SF when Batum rests (once he gets to that point) and another 7 or so at PF.. if all we need from him is scoring, and he only gets 20 MPG, I am fine with Travis coming back.

 

[BGrantFan]

They can sign him as a free agent with the MLE.

Could probably sign both Outlaw and Blake by splitting the MLE. If not both, then Outlaw and some other PG. The MLE should be about $6 million next year, right? That's too much for Outlaw alone.

 

[RR7]

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean the full MLE. I think it'll be less than 6, since I think it's some percentage of the cap, and that'll be going down. But, roughly, 5-6, so yeah. Still, too much for Outlaw. I like Outlaw. Seems like a nice guy. I know the guys on the team seemed to like him. I'd just personally like to find someone more consistent as our 6th man. Whether that's someone like Mike Miller, or finding a vet who's on a last contract(Will Ray Allen go for a deal at or below the MLE?)

 

[BGrantFan]

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean the full MLE. I think it'll be less than 6, since I think it's some percentage of the cap, and that'll be going down. But, roughly, 5-6, so yeah. Still, too much for Outlaw. I like Outlaw. Seems like a nice guy. I know the guys on the team seemed to like him. I'd just personally like to find someone more consistent as our 6th man. Whether that's someone like Mike Miller, or finding a vet who's on a last contract(Will Ray Allen go for a deal at or below the MLE?)

Miller or Ray Allen would be intriguing, but I wonder if Allen would be content coming off of the bench on a quasi-contender.

 

[THE HCP]

Re-Sign Steve and Travis.

 

[hasoos]

Re-Sign Steve and Travis.

Fuck that. We weren't going to win it with those 2, and we needed to find out if the guys behind them were better or not. If they are not, so be it. It is time to move on and get better talent. The sad fact is, not every draft pick turns out ok. Get over it and move on.

Now that being said, when we were looking at filling out our roster last year, I said to not fill in the last spot on the roster, and to leave the flexibility open for signing a veteran free agent. Every year there are good players available halfway into the year because teams will not sign them due to the salary cap. Guys like Jerry Stackhouse, who could have easily filled a role similar to what Jamaal Crawford in Atlanta. Now Milwaukee, which did this, signed Stack, and he has been playing great for them. I would take Stackhouse over Outlaw and Webster any day of the week. Guys like that are available every year, and next year with so many teams going to spend money on high level talent and the cap probably going down, there will be more of these guys available than ever.

 

[LittleAlex]

Re-Sign Steve and Travis.

No thanks.

Going backwards isn't going to get it done. Those two weren't going to be guys that would help Portland win a title.

Bayless and Rudy don't appear to be those type of guys either. I have a wacky idea. Why not bring in some guys who are older but have actually proven they can get it done.

You know, like another Howard, Camby or Miller. That is what we need. Blake and Outlaw definitely don't fit that bill.

Edit: One guy that does; Ray Allen. He is an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season and has won a ring before. I wonder if he could be talked into going Portland for a couple of years to provide a scoring punch off the bench. Really, who would you rather have backing up B-Roy, Rudy or Jesus Shuttlesworth.

I pick the Jesus.

 

[Nikolokolus]

To be honest I don't even think the bench is all that bad, I just think Martell, Jerryd and Rudy fit very badly together as a unit. Rudy and Martell both need a true table setter and ball-handler to direct the offense since neither are well suited to creating their own shot and bad things happen when they try to dribble drive. As for how to fix it, I don't see any short term solutions, except to make sure two of Miller, Roy and LMA are on the court at all times, in the longterm (ie. this summer) I believe some significant movement will occur (trades, free agent signings, etc.).

Speaking of free agents, I doubt Steve or Travis comes back, but resigning Travis as some kind of scorer off the bench might happen if management can't make anything happen on the trade front around the draft (and I don't believe Travis is going to command quite the payday he wants after such a sub-par season).

 

[noknobs]

To be honest I don't even think the bench is all that bad, I just think Martell, Jerryd and Rudy fit very badly together as a unit. Rudy and Martell both need a true table setter and ball-handler to direct the offense since neither are well suited to creating their own shot and bad things happen when they try to dribble drive.

I agree. Bayless is the real problem. Unlike many Blazer fans I liked what Blake brought to the team, and wasn't very high on B-Rex. I'd love to bring Blake back as a reserve, but even if we don't bring him back, we need to address the backup PG spot because Bayless is not, and will never be, the answer.

 

[Eastoff]

I think the bench guys need some sort of fluffer to "build their confidence" before each game.

 

[TripTango]

There's not much hope for the bench this season, and that's both unsurprising and relatively unimportant. It's unsurprising because we completely gutted it to fix our starting lineup this year, and it doesn't worry me because a deep bench becomes far less valuable once rotations tighten up in the playoffs anyway. I think it's fairly obvious that management will be looking to restock the waters in the offseason, as well as sign Camby to another deal. Of course, whether they'll be successful remains to be seen.

 

[andalusian]

A Kreg Jig is a quick and easy way to fix wobbly furniture.

 

[KingSpeed]

More Cunningham.

We miss Blake and Outlaw so much though.

 

[Natebishop3]

More Cunningham.

We miss Blake and Outlaw so much though.

You keep throwing Blake out there... what was he doing for us? He was horrible this season for the Blazers.

 

[KingSpeed]

You keep throwing Blake out there... what was he doing for us? He was horrible this season for the Blazers.

Did you see him in our win in Phoenix? 20 pts, 12 assists off the bench. He's a better point guard than Bayless and he's a better shooter than Bayless. Didn't you see how well he played against us in the Clippers game?

 

[Natebishop3]

Did you see him in our win in Phoenix? 20 pts, 12 assists off the bench. He's a better point guard than Bayless and he's a better shooter than Bayless. Didn't you see how well he played against us in the Clippers game?

You're throwing out one game, I'm throwing out the whole season. I don't care how he played against us, I only care how he played FOR us.

7.6 ppg, 4.0 apg, 40.3% from the field, 75% from the line, 27.4 mpg for the Blazers this season.

8.6 ppg, 2.3 apg, 1.6 rpg, 41.9% from the floor, 1.2 TO per game, 17.5 mpg. Bayless is outplaying Blake.

 

[KingSpeed]

I still think Blake is a better player.

 

[oldmangrouch]

At this point, there is nothing wrong with the bench that a good anthrax epidemic wouldn't fix.