Science How This Decade of Archaeology Changed What We Know About Human Origins

[Lanny]

Science to me is questioning everything...they used to teach the world was flat in universities....some scientists have passed on questions that could not have been answered in their time on earth...the questions pass on to the next generations or many in succession. We have finite senses with which to comprehend "facts" ..until someone comes up with a break through....could take centuries to realize these developments so our questions today may not be answered in our lifetimes....that's where the massive experiment to disprove "facts" gets lost in translation. It's like the great architecture in Europe throughout the Rennaisance period...would take hundred of years to complete a cathedral and the artisans who began the vision never get to see it attain fruition. Those processes just amaze me.

Flat Earth was NEVER arrived at by scientists. Even ancient Greeks predicted the Earth was round.

https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question54.html

The theory of a flat Earth was almost certainly arrived at by the precursors of the Trump cult.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

The math you need to look at is the math. of probability and in this case it is virtually certain.
So many measurements have been taken and verified that it is simply proven by probability. For it not to be the case you would need an astronomically large experiment and then there would probably be no exception. Science has accepted it as fact so why can't others? You're gonna have to show me why one should question it.

There is actually alot of arguments in the archeological circles about carbon dating, which isotope to use carbon-12, carbon-14, environmental variables, it's accuracy. Almost no one in "science" just accepts anything as fact, that's the whole point of it, to keep learning and to keep honing in and making the process better, to expand our knowledge of the physical world. I'm not saying they're "off by like 100,000 years or whatever.

https://phys.org/news/2018-06-cornell-illuminates-inaccuracies-radiocarbon-dating.html

Science has always been about questioning what is believed as a common fact and exploring it. That's the example of Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Boyle, Hooke, etc did they never just accepted it as fact.

 

[barfo]

Well, that's a horse of a different color.
Har har har har.

 

[riverman]

Flat Earth was NEVER arrived at by scientists.

Scientists weren't allowed to teach in those days Lanny...they were called philosophers or teachers or Monks or Druids, etc......science was not the church's or temple's friend when mythological religion had all the power. Galileo sure found that out. My point is that is was taught thoughout history and there are some who actually still believe it.

 

[Lanny]

There is actually alot of arguments in the archeological circles about carbon dating, which isotope to use carbon-12, carbon-14, environmental variables, it's accuracy. Almost no one in "science" just accepts anything as fact, that's the whole point of it, to keep learning and to keep honing in and making the process better, to expand our knowledge of the physical world. I'm not saying they're "off by like 100,000 years or whatever.

https://phys.org/news/2018-06-cornell-illuminates-inaccuracies-radiocarbon-dating.html

Science has always been about questioning what is believed as a common fact and exploring it. That's the example of Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Boyle, Hooke, etc did they never just accepted it as fact.

It's the relationship between carbon 14 and carbon 12. Now, they're even looking at Uranium.
Still, there's no fighting probability that's why it's part of mathematics.
Did you know that the size of the stars fits a Gaussian distribution curve? That is so awesome.
Men's shoe sizes also fit a Gaussian distribution curve.
I love math. Yeah, I'm nerdy.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

It's the relationship between carbon 14 and carbon 12. Now, they're even looking at Uranium.
Still, there's no fighting probability that's why it's part of mathematics.
Did you know that the size of the stars fits a Gaussian distribution curve? That is so awesome.
Men's shoe sizes also fit a Gaussian distribution curve.
I love math. Yeah, I'm nerdy.

Of course by any theory of probability there’s essentially no chance we exist, but here we are.

 

[Lanny]

Of course by any theory of probability there’s essentially no chance we exist, but here we are.

I disagree.
I once did a back of the envelope calculation and came up with a chance for our existence albeit a small one but virtually no chance for life to exist anywhere else. Our planet is the result of a lot of luck. And obviously it did happen 'cause here we are. All solar systems out there that I've heard of contain rocky planets ten times the size of the earth and orbiting closer to their star then mercury orbits the sun. That's just starters. Why? Perhaps a fortuitous collision of planets and planetoids early in our history maybe more than the 4.5 Billion years we've had an Earth.

 

[barfo]

Of course by any theory of probability there’s essentially no chance we exist, but here we are.

I'm not sure I buy that line of thinking.

I could similarly say that there's essentially no chance that a green Honda would be parked next to my house today with a flat tire and a Garfield doll inside. And yet...

When you have an enormous number of possibilities, each with a small chance of happening, it's not a surprise that one of those things actually does happen, even though the chances of that particular event were small.

The only reason it seems miraculous to us that we exist is that we think we are somehow very very special, and thus this is the only possible outcome for the universe that matters.

The sentient squirrels in the squirrel-verse don't agree.

barfo

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I disagree.
I once did a back of the envelope calculation and came up with a chance for our existence albeit a small one but virtually no chance for life to exist anywhere else. Our planet is the result of a lot of luck. And obviously it did happen 'cause here we are. All solar systems out there that I've heard of contain rocky planets ten times the size of the earth and orbiting closer to their star then mercury orbits the sun. That's just starters. Why? Perhaps a fortuitous collision of planets and planetoids early in our history maybe more than the 4.5 Billion years we've had an Earth.

Im not sure what you disagree with lol. Thats what I was saying the probability of life is so small that in a probability class they’d throw it out. Yet there is obviously very small chance and we’re here.

 

[yankeesince59]

Science to me is questioning everything....

^^^This !

 

[yankeesince59]

I'm not sure I buy that line of thinking.

I could similarly say that there's essentially no chance that a green Honda would be parked next to my house today with a flat tire and a Garfield doll inside. And yet...

When you have an enormous number of possibilities, each with a small chance of happening, it's not a surprise that one of those things actually does happen, even though the chances of that particular event were small.

The only reason it seems miraculous to us that we exist is that we think we are somehow very very special, and thus this is the only possible outcome for the universe that matters.

The sentient squirrels in the squirrel-verse don't agree.

barfo

"I think, ...I think I am...therefore, I am....I think."

 

[Chris Craig]

What if it is an American horse that learned Chinese so that it could compete in the 21st century?

barfo

Then you've got watch out for neighs and whinnys

 

[Lanny]

Im not sure what you disagree with lol. Thats what I was saying the probability of life is so small that in a probability class they’d throw it out. Yet there is obviously very small chance and we’re here.

Yet we are here and we have all the makings and it happened so obviously we were part of that probability that did occur. I will include that I believe there was divine intervention but you don't have to include that in your calculations.
No, there's nothing wrong with the probability calculations other than our the assignment of probability values, which I doubt, may be wrong.

Edit:
Think of all that must have gone right.
Because of all the elements involved, we are the result of at least a third generation star explosion;
We had to be the result of a glancing blow of just the right maginitude and angle to receive the iron necessary for an iron core which is necessary for a magnetic field which protects us from scouring sun radiation. We need a moon of just the right size relative to our size which has a gravitational affect on our planet which stabilizes our axis and keeps it at the same tilt all the way around the sun allowing for seasons;
We have to be in the Goldilocks zone not to close and not to far away from our sun;
We need a large planet like Jupiter not to far away to draw large asteroids away from us thereby protecting us from annihilation from collistions from these asteroids;
Should a dominant type of species that eat a species that could evolve into an intelligent species control the world, we need an asteroid of just the right magnitude to strike killing those dominant species and allow the types of species to flourish and evolve into intelligent ones;
You have to hope that the intelligent species doesn't do something stupid and eradicate themselves;
Your star must be of the right size;
Your planet must be made of the right mix of material;
You have to have life evolve starting with a type that will create a breathable atmosphere;
I'm sure there are others that don't come to mind right now.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Yet we are here and we have all the makings and it happened so obviously we were part of that probability that did occur. I will include that I believe there was divine intervention but you don't have to include that in your calculations.
No, there's nothing wrong with the probability calculations other than our the assignment of probability values, which I doubt, may be wrong.

Edit:
Think of all that must have gone right.
Because of all the elements involved, we are the result of at least a third generation star explosion;
We had to be the result of a glancing blow of just the right maginitude and angle to receive the iron necessary for an iron core which is necessary for a magnetic field which protects us from scouring sun radiation. We need a moon of just the right size relative to our size which has a gravitational affect on our planet which stabilizes our axis and keeps it at the same tilt all the way around the sun allowing for seasons;
We have to be in the Goldilocks zone not to close and not to far away from our sun;
We need a large planet like Jupiter not to far away to draw large asteroids away from us thereby protecting us from annihilation from collistions from these asteroids;
Should a dominant type of species that eat a species that could evolve into an intelligent species control the world, we need an asteroid of just the right magnitude to strike killing those dominant species and allow the types of species to flourish and evolve into intelligent ones;
You have to hope that the intelligent species doesn't do something stupid and eradicate themselves;
Your star must be of the right size;
Your planet must be made of the right mix of material;
You have to have life evolve starting with a type that will create a breathable atmosphere;
I'm sure there are others that don't come to mind right now.

I'm aware of all that and I agree with you. Which is where I was confused about what we disagreed on.

 

[andalusian]

I've got a brother-in-law who looks like he could have sprung up some place such as the Amazon.

He is a Nerd that works in a warehouse?

 

[julius]

I agree. I'm not so sure of the dating either and I believe "humans" in varying forms have been around quite a bit longer than some say. I also think that some of the "migrations" were made possible by continental shifts and plate tectonics in which the timelines are also only estimates.

Interesting time lapse;

I always found it convenient that the continents were the same shapes 250 million years ago, as they are now.

 

[yankeesince59]

I always found it convenient that the continents were the same shapes 250 million years ago, as they are now.

Yeah, while watching that time lapse I noticed that while the continents moved, the East coast of South America and the East coast of Africa hardly changed at all over 100s of millions of years...kinda hard for me to believe.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Neal Adams' Expanding Earth theory is interesting. I don't believe it but still worth watching.

 

[yankeesince59]

Neal Adams' Expanding Earth theory is interesting. I don't believe it but still worth watching.

If the earth is indeed growing, and if the ocean floor as we know it is only 50-60 million years old, that might explain a lot.

 

[MarAzul]

Neal Adams' Expanding Earth theory is interesting. I don't believe it but still worth watching.

If the earth is indeed growing, and if the ocean floor as we know it is only 50-60 million years old, that might explain a lot.

Of course it is expanding.
I love to watch it do so. Get off shore beyond the light pollution at night and watch it happening. Off southern California and Mexico is a wonderful place to watch it all happen. Stuff is raining down on us constantly. At night it looks like a spectacular show
as objects enter our atmosphere and light up. No video really captures the real thing like seeing it in surround video from the deck of a small craft in the cat birds seat.

 

[yankeesince59]

Of course it is expanding.
I love to watch it do so. Get off shore beyond the light pollution at night and watch it happening. Off southern California and Mexico is a wonderful place to watch it all happen. Stuff is raining down on us constantly. At night it looks like a spectacular show
as objects enter our atmosphere and light up. No video really captures the real thing like seeing it in surround video from the deck of a small craft in the cat birds seat.

Marz, forgive me but you've lost me, or are we talking about 2 different things? The "growing" of the earth that I referenced was over the course of millions of years as was exhibited in Sly's video. I just don't understand your correlation between that and observing the night sky aboard a boat.

 

[MarAzul]

we talking about 2 different things?

>>> always possible that we fail to comunicate, but in this case I doubt it.

I referenced was over the course of millions of years as was exhibited in Sly's video.

>>> Well actually, as I understand it, the earth was an identifiable planet in our solar system more than 15 billions years ago. I expect it grew by gravitational attraction and added mass as it came within grasp.

I just don't understand your correlation between that and observing the night sky aboard a boat.

>>> I think it is still doing the same and you can see it in progress quite spectacularly in 360 surround view at sea.

 

[yankeesince59]

>>> always possible that we fail to comunicate, but in this case I doubt it.



>>> Well actually, as I understand it, the earth was an identifiable planet in our solar system more than 15 billions years ago. I expect it grew by gravitational attraction and added mass as it came within grasp.


>>> I think it is still doing the same and you can see it in progress quite spectacularly in 360 surround view at sea.

...again, I get the feeling we're comparing apples to oranges (millions of years as compared to a few hours on a boat)

...gotta ask, did you watch the WHOLE video that Sly posted?

 

[Lanny]

Rocky Horror Picture Show

 

[Lanny]

Marz, forgive me but you've lost me, or are we talking about 2 different things? The "growing" of the earth that I referenced was over the course of millions of years as was exhibited in Sly's video. I just don't understand your correlation between that and observing the night sky aboard a boat.

Observing the night sky anywhere can be awe inspiring and drum up a lot of questions.

 

[yankeesince59]

Observing the night sky anywhere can be awe inspiring and drum up a lot of questions.

I have no doubt about that because I live out in the country and the night sky it very clear when compared to viewing it in the city.

But that's not at all what Marz and I were discussing...but then again, I keep forgetting that you have him on "ignore".

 

[Lanny]

I have no doubt about that because I live out in the country and the night sky it very clear when compared to viewing it in the city.

But that's not at all what Marz and I were discussing...but then again, I keep forgetting that you have him on "ignore".

When I was a kid of about 5 my mother took me outside on warm summer nights when the sky was clear and there was very little light pollution in those days and she would teach me the basics about the names of the star formations starting with the big and little dippers. All I can remember of those days was also learning which star was the North star.
Maybe a year or so later, my father showed me the aurora borealis. He could not explain why they were what they were but I now know that they are created when free electrons are emitted from the sun and collide with elements in our atmosphere exciting those elements to higher energy levels which rapidly decay giving off colored lights. These elements are electrically charged and attracted to the poles with the aurora borealis occurring at the North pole. Interestingly, similar events happen on the moon. electrons from the sun hit minerals on the moons surface elevating them to high energy levels which when they rapidly decay give off enough light to make up about 1/3 of the light we see coming from the moon. Cool.
Then when I was 8 or 9 on a hot summer night, my dad would throw a mattress on the ground in the back yard. We would look up at the stars and he would ask something like "Do you see all those stars? What do you think is beyond those stars? And what is beyond the stars that are beyond these stars? And what is beyond those stars? How far do the stars go?" That was my first taste of the concept of infinity. It is this that has made me a born again Christian.
When I get so wrapped up in the concept of infinity that I start to blow my mind, I head for the frig and grab me an ice cold beer.
I can handle infinity if I keep it at arm's length such as in mathematics when dealing with asymptotes or integration or even the definition of a limit but in terms of the Universe is when I desperately grab that beer.

 

[MARIS61]

There is actually alot of arguments in the archeological circles about carbon dating, which isotope to use carbon-12, carbon-14, environmental variables, it's accuracy. Almost no one in "science" just accepts anything as fact, that's the whole point of it, to keep learning and to keep honing in and making the process better, to expand our knowledge of the physical world. I'm not saying they're "off by like 100,000 years or whatever.

https://phys.org/news/2018-06-cornell-illuminates-inaccuracies-radiocarbon-dating.html

Science has always been about questioning what is believed as a common fact and exploring it. That's the example of Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Boyle, Hooke, etc did they never just accepted it as fact.

Science is guessing in a lab coat.

 

[yankeesince59]

Science is guessing in a lab coat.

As opposed to guessing with a keyboard?

 

[Lanny]

Science is guessing in a lab coat.

Science doesnt guess, after all it's called s c i e n c e.
A brief refresher:
Scientific Method -
"principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses"
From Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scientific method