HS Male wrestler forfits match vs Girl

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BLAZER PROPHET said:
I wrestled one year in HS. Considering some of the wrestling moves (crotch move, just to name one) I would pass as well. Also, I saw a kid get a dislocated shoulder being slammed to the mat. It could be much worse for a girl. It's stupid and disrespectful to have a girl in this.
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I wrestled a year of HS too and you'd be surprised that many teams do have 1 or 2 girls on their teams. And quite often they're good. Never saw anyone refuse to wrestle them but its certainly a dilemma. The biggest issue IMO is safety. Anyone who played organized tackle football knows that the game becomes dangerous when someone isn't going 100%. To me thats the biggest issue. As a man there are certain areas you don't want to put your hands on a girl, even in a sporting competition. And additionally if you get the upper hand and have the opportunity to pull a slam or something like that you have the dilemma of do you do that or not? You shouldn't differentiate between opponents but you're raised your entire life not to hit women and although they would want you to not hold back, its very hard as a human who's been trained so long to go through with it and possibly injure them. What if they do get injured? You look like a huge fucking asshole. And thirdly a lot of wrestling is just dirty tactics that cause pain and make the opponent uncomfortable. When the action isn't going that quickly you're taught to grind your headgear on their face/head and things like that which hurt and potentially distract or discourage the opponent. Its hard to justify that with a girl IMO.

If it were me I wouldn't feel comfortable going 100% against the girl. I know I shouldn't be that way in the situation of wrestling because the girl you're going against wants your best effort but its just too against my nature to do some of the things I would do against a man and that makes it more dangerous for both parties. Not to mention unfair advantages competitively. I can just imagine if I ever wrestled a girl in HS and didn't hold back, grabbed wherever I wanted, pull some pain inflicting tactics there would be no way my mom could think that was ok. And even aside from upbringing its a no win situation for the guy as far as peer influence goes. Losing to a girl would be hellish. Even if you knew you held back and weren't able to do everything you wanted you'd still get shit non-stop. And what happens if you win? You still probably get made fun of and for all the pro-feminist dickholes (who probably wouldn't commend you at all for competing) there are just as many traditionalist people who would judge you for justifying going into a combat sport with a woman.
 
crandc said:
Wrestling is not "violence" any more than football is. It's a sport. It's physical but it's voluntary and by rules. It is not assault.

Wrestling is by weight class so the girl would be about the same size and weight as the boy.

IMHO, bigots who cite religion are the worst. Some schmo who never met anyone openly gay and is prejudiced can learn better when he/she discovers his/her neighbors, coworkers, etc. are gay and no different from him/her. But someone who says god wants him/her to hate gays is not going to be persuaded by real life. This idiot says he can't compete against a girl because of his religion. Not because he thinks it may not be fair competition, which can be debated, but because his god does not want it. What about in business? School? Military?
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This "idiot" won't compete against a girl because of the respect he has for women. Which you now bash. Glad to see that you aren't consistently feminist, but consistently hateful of anything with a religious aspect.

EDIT: At what point did he say she shouldn't wrestle? And who are you or anyone else to tell him what to do in a voluntary sport?
 
BrianFromWA said:
This "idiot" won't compete against a girl because of the respect he has for women. Which you now bash. Glad to see that you aren't consistently feminist, but consistently hateful of anything with a religious aspect.

EDIT: At what point did he say she shouldn't wrestle? And who are you or anyone else to tell him what to do in a voluntary sport?
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Respect for women, as long as they're at home poppin out babies.

you want to respect women? treat them as equals and don't think you have to "protect" them.
 
I call BS. When you and the rest of the country stop being hypocritical, that might be a start. When did he say "get her home and pop out babies?" Or is there another King James cliff note mis-application coming? He proved he respected women enough to give up a chance at something he'd worked years for. You saying that a woman is the same as a man is foolish, ignorant, dangerous and just plain wrong.

Women as a gender are different, and our country's laws (and the world's!) are rife with that sentiment.

Segregation by bathroom. Segregation in sports (Title IX). Segregation in roles in the military.

He wasn't taking a stand against Title IX, or homosexuality, or anything other than his belief that he shouldn't want to beat up a woman in the context of a wrestling match.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I call BS. When you and the rest of the country stop being hypocritical, that might be a start. When did he say "get her home and pop out babies?"
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wasn't his mom a stay at home mom with 8 kids? I thought I read that somewhere. maybe it was not true.

Or is there another King James cliff note mis-application coming? He proved he respected women enough to give up a chance at something he'd worked years for. You saying that a woman is the same as a man is foolish, ignorant, dangerous and just plain wrong.
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You're right, women are not our equals.
Women as a gender are different, and our country's laws (and the world's!) are rife with that sentiment.

Segregation by bathroom. Segregation in sports (Title IX). Segregation in roles in the military.

He wasn't taking a stand against Title IX, or homosexuality, or anything other than his belief that he shouldn't want to beat up a woman in the context of a wrestling match.
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You're right, women aren't our equals.
 
additionally, it's laughable that someone would be ignorant enough to state that religion is based upon keeping women "popping out babies", when it was Wilberforce and Spurgeon who were among the earliest proponents of women's suffrage and the New Testament is filled from the first chapter with references to the equal treatment of women. But much like hospitals, food banks, charities, etc., now it's cool for the hatemongers to demonize the church with whatever mud they want to sling, regardless of whether it's grounded in truth or not.
 
julius said:
wasn't his mom a stay at home mom with 8 kids? I thought I read that somewhere. maybe it was not true.



You're right, women are not our equals.


You're right, women aren't our equals.
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Thankfully someone can put aside the hate and see things rationally. I've done my job for today!

(...wait a second...)

Nevermind. Delusion reigns again! Let's make up words! Yay! :party:
 
I wouldn't mind wrestling a girl. Wrestling is not violence, it's a sport. If she wants to play, then she can't complain where I put my hands, and I wouldn't go easy on her either.
 
Sinobas said:
I wouldn't mind wrestling a girl. Wrestling is not violence, it's a sport. If she wants to play, then she can't complain where I put my hands, and I wouldn't go easy on her either.
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I think that's fair and the young ladies stepping onto the mat would expect that.
 
can someone who's less neanderthal that I explain to me how it's ok to do the things said in this forum (put my hands where I want, grabbed her wherever I wanted, inflicted pain to win) b/c they're "not violent and by the rules"?
 
BrianFromWA said:
can someone who's less neanderthal that I explain to me how it's ok to do the things said in this forum (put my hands where I want, grabbed her wherever I wanted, inflicted pain to win) b/c they're "not violent and by the rules"?
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It depends on whether you consider wrestling a sport. If it's a sport, and those actions are within the rules of the sport, then it's ok to perform those actions, assuming that both participants are involved voluntarily and understand the rules.

barfo
 
BrianFromWA said:
Women as a gender are different, and our country's laws (and the world's!) are rife with that sentiment.

Segregation by bathroom. Segregation in sports (Title IX). Segregation in roles in the military.
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Turn the time machine back a few decades, replace "women as a gender" with "negroes as a race", and it reads just as well.

barfo
 
barfo said:
It depends on whether you consider wrestling a sport. If it's a sport, and those actions are within the rules of the sport, then it's ok to perform those actions, assuming that both participants are involved voluntarily and understand the rules.

barfo
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so, the woman's "asking for it"?
 
barfo said:
Turn the time machine back a few decades, replace "women as a gender" with "negroes as a race", and it reads just as well.

barfo
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If one doesn't comprehend well, I'd agree. It makes a lovely sound bite.

Why do women have a different physical fitness test from men to be in the military? Or different weight limits? Different grooming standards? Did african-americans have those things in 1945? I'll save you the trip of taking another excursion outside of your knowledge base and say "no, no they didn't".

Why are there Title IX provisions for women's sports? Why can't we just say "if you're not good enough to make the team, try cheerleading or home economics or something you CAN do as well as a man?" Because our society recognizes and celebrates those differences.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Why are there Title IX provisions for women's sports?
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Because our society was (and is) very sexist, and didn't allow women to play in sports equal in # to that of men? Because, god forbid, we allow women to have the same opportunities to play sports as men?

Why can't we just say "if you're not good enough to make the team, try cheerleading or home economics or something you CAN do as well as a man?" Because our society recognizes and celebrates those differences.
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holy shit. I was just being a bit of a knob when I said what i said, but seriously...stop digging yourself a hole here.
 
BrianFromWA said:
If one doesn't comprehend well, I'd agree. It makes a lovely sound bite.

Why do women have a different physical fitness test from men to be in the military? Or different weight limits? Different grooming standards? Did african-americans have those things in 1945? I'll save you the trip of taking another excursion outside of your knowledge base and say "no, no they didn't".
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You know what else? Those weren't the things you cited. You cited different bathrooms and segregation.

Why are there Title IX provisions for women's sports? Why can't we just say "if you're not good enough to make the team, try cheerleading or home economics or something you CAN do as well as a man?" Because our society recognizes and celebrates those differences.
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Why would we want to say that? Is there something wrong with women playing sports?

barfo
 
what hole am I digging? You state that men and women are equal, and then state that women should have additional opportunities to play sports? If men and woman are equal, what's stopping the school from having one baseball team, and the 25 best players play? Or one basketball team, and the best 12 players play. And one volleyball team, and the best 12 players play? And one golf team, where the best 8 players play?

Because men and women are different, even though they're equally valued. I'm not sure if I'm wasting time on a prank to get me going, or if you actually believe there's logic and merit in your opinion.
 
barfo said:
You know what else? Those weren't the things you cited. You cited different bathrooms and segregation.
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I cited bathrooms (no one clamoring for that to be removed), sports, and military roles. I've addressed two of those three. Which ones were you addressing, again?
Why would we want to say that? Is there something wrong with women playing sports?

barfo
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nope. But protections (subsidies) are in place to ensure that women can have equal opportunities to compete on teams/in sports because they can't play well enough to be on men's teams.

I don't have much of a problem with Title IX. I do have a problem with people thinking that women are the same as men. Title IX just shows how far our country has gone towards making it clear that they aren't.
 
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in fact, you're proving my point for me, barfo.

Desegregation of professional baseball, for instance, didn't say that the Negroes could keep their league. It said that their skin color could not be used as a discriminator for them getting a job in the majors.

Women, by and large, don't need to use their gender as a discriminator to be dismissed from most sports. Their difference in athleticism does so. So to ensure that girls are given the same chance to compete at a high level there is legislated discrimination to ensure that there are sports that only girls can play. Which is great, but it just underscores how men are not the same as women.
 
BrianFromWA said:
what hole am I digging? You state that men and women are equal, and then state that women should have additional opportunities to play sports?
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EQUAL opportunities.

If men and woman are equal, what's stopping the school from having one baseball team, and the 25 best players play? Or one basketball team, and the best 12 players play. And one volleyball team, and the best 12 players play? And one golf team, where the best 8 players play?
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In some schools, I bet they do have that. Not sure what your point is.

Because men and women are different, even though they're equally valued. I'm not sure if I'm wasting time on a prank to get me going, or if you actually believe there's logic and merit in your opinion.
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it's not like she was tricked into wrestling, under the guise that it was "cheerleading" or some other female dominant sport. I'm not sure if you're accurately stating with Title IX is about either. It sounds like you're saying that it's not equal funding and opportunity for women sports, but instead "women must play on male teams".

Plus, Title IX does not prove that women are viewed as equals (by many).
 
I think we're talking across each other, Julius.

f men and woman are equal, what's stopping the school from having one baseball team, and the 25 best players play? Or one basketball team, and the best 12 players play. And one volleyball team, and the best 12 players play? And one golf team, where the best 8 players play? In some schools, I bet they do have that. Not sure what your point is.
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They don't, b/c it's illegal. (Edit: more correctly, if the school has any "direct or indirect federal funding", it's illegal) The point is that women's differences in athleticism are noted and celebrated, and legislation enacted to ensure that just b/c they can't compete at a guy's level doesn't mean they shouldn't have opportunities to compete with other girls/women. And if there are differences, you can't be the same.

It sounds like you're saying that it's not equal funding and opportunity for women sports, but instead "women must play on male teams"
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I'm saying exactly the opposite. That there has to be a "woman's team" and a "men's team" (or women's sport and men's sport) b/c of Title IX protecting the differences b/w men and women. If we were all the same there would be one basketball team at the University of Washington and if the women didn't make the team, tough. (there are no restrictions or legislation protecting races, sexuality, disability, etc). There isn't a "men's" basketball team, a women's basketball team, a hispanic basketball team, a black basketball team, a homosexual basketball team, and an Alaskan/Pacific Islander basketball team. There are a men's team, and a women's team, b/c they're different.

EDIT: and the have protection to keep it that way. It's not as if women are clamoring for equality in basketball, saying that the only reason men are getting their trophies are b/c women aren't playing. It's not a national cry to ensure women play with the men on one standard of play, and if they can't compete, too bad...some of the more vocal and public women of the feminist movement have pushed for, voted for, upheld judicially and maintain watch over the protections of Title IX. They celebrate that, while equally as valuable as men and equally worthy of athletic pursuits, they aren't the same as men. I just don't get why you guys are trying to state differently.
 
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I'm too tired to debate anymore.
 
BrianFromWA said:
in fact, you're proving my point for me, barfo.
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If your point is merely that women and men aren't identical, you don't need to prove it to me. Or, really, anyone, I'd think. Did someone claim that men and women are identical?

barfo
 
When I stated that:
Women as a gender are different, and our country's laws (and the world's!) are rife with that sentiment.
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you likened it to racial segregation
Turn the timei machine back a few decades, replace "women as a gender" with "negroes as a race", and it reads just as well.
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so I've been attempting to point out that it's not close to a good analogy. That women are different and protected (and celebrated!) as such, which was not the case with the racial segregation laws.
Julius responded to the same quote of my with a sarcastic
You're right, women aren't our equals.
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, doubled for effect.

If you're just playing a semantic game, fine. But women and men are different, and those differences (outside of the extreme contributors to this thread) are generally seen as a good thing and protected.
 
BrianFromWA said:
When I stated that:

you likened it to racial segregation
so I've been attempting to point out that it's not close to a good analogy. That women are different and protected (and celebrated!) as such, which was not the case with the racial segregation laws.
Julius responded to the same quote of my with a sarcastic , doubled for effect.

If you're just playing a semantic game, fine. But women and men are different, and those differences (outside of the extreme contributors to this thread) are generally seen as a good thing and protected.
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Well, your choice of illustrations (segregation, laws) was rather poor, since those things were also true of classes that we no longer discriminate against (as much as we did). And women aren't always "celebrated!", as there are plenty of forms of discrimination that are harmful rather than helpful. If you want to say women have vaginas and are on average physically smaller, then I think you have a case.

But I don't quite see how any of this relates to a girl who chooses to wrestle boys.

barfo
 
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