I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior

[Sasha]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Skiptomylue11:</div><div class="quote_post">I mostly agree , that all humans except for Lord Jesus have fallen short of Holiness, and have sinned.</div>
Did Jesus not fall short as well? Satan did tempt him upon a mountain top, upon which Jesus obeyed. Sure, he rebuked him afterwards, but first he listened and took in on observing everything and therefore sinned.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

<div class="quote_poster">Sasha Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did Jesus not fall short as well? Satan did tempt him upon a mountain top, upon which Jesus obeyed. Sure, he rebuked him afterwards, but first he listened and took in on observing everything and therefore sinned.</div>Jesus didn't succumb to the temptations, he rebuked him every time. If someone offers me 8 beers to drink, and I say no, I have not sinned.

Here are the verses that you were referring to:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Luke 4:1-13:</div><div class="quote_post"> 1Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, 2where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
3The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread."

4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone.'"

5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7So if you worship me, it will all be yours."

8Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"

9The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here. 10For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you
to guard you carefully;
11they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'"

12Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

13When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.</div>

Jesus is Holy and never sinned:<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 1 John 3:5:</div><div class="quote_post">1 John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
</div>
Thanks for the question

, God is great and is my strength,
Greg

 

[rafy]

It seems that you're really happy, and I don't think anyone can ask for anything more than to be really, truly happy. And it seems like you are really devoted and learned when it comes to the bible, or atleast you've made great strides in the attempt to understand it.

However, like you said, you take the bible very literal.

<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">T
I believe the bible is the literal word of God. No arguement there

.
</div>

So, I'd appreciate it if you'd watch this video, it's only 10 minutes. And, as much as you may want to just exit the window, I hope you'll watch it until the end, because I'm really interested as a real Christian, what you think of it.



However it's very crude in it's method, I think it's quite effective in delivering it's message and very clear. As an apparent devout Christian what's your take on it? Are they making things up? If they're not making it up, should you, as you say, take these things literal?

 

[bronbron23]

<div class="quote_poster">rafy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
So, I'd appreciate it if you'd watch this video, it's only 10 minutes. And, as much as you may want to just exit the window, I hope you'll watch it until the end, because I'm really interested as a real Christian, what you think of it.



However it's very crude in it's method, I think it's quite effective in delivering it's message and very clear. As an apparent devout Christian what's your take on it? Are they making things up? If they're not making it up, should you, as you say, take these things literal?</div>

mmmn well that video was interesting it's incredibly hard for me to get all my thoughts out but I will say I have no idea what context some of the quotes from the bible were in (which people often do with the Qur'an which I will get onto later) and you must remember that when the Bible was created it was different back then.

I think the problem with Bible bashing and cussing out religion in general is firstly that the positives that the religion or it's texts bring are ignored and secondly that the fundamental beliefs it enforces are what make up society and the morals and values most people have so if anything you owe religion something.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

<div class="quote_poster">rafy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It seems that you're really happy, and I don't think anyone can ask for anything more than to be really, truly happy. And it seems like you are really devoted and learned when it comes to the bible, or atleast you've made great strides in the attempt to understand it.

However, like you said, you take the bible very literal.



So, I'd appreciate it if you'd watch this video, it's only 10 minutes. And, as much as you may want to just exit the window, I hope you'll watch it until the end, because I'm really interested as a real Christian, what you think of it.



However it's very crude in it's method, I think it's quite effective in delivering it's message and very clear. As an apparent devout Christian what's your take on it? Are they making things up? If they're not making it up, should you, as you say, take these things literal?</div>Hey rafy, its good to here from ya,

. And yes, I am still happy, God has given me the greatest gift, that I didn't deserve, and God is so loving!

However, I'm not sure if I'm going to watch the video, I heard the first 5 seconds saying something along the lines: "This video will show you how the bible is repulsive." I don't think God would want me to willingly watch something that is hateful towards his Holy Word, however I'll pray about it, and ask a fellow believer in Lord Jesus what they think God would want me to do.

I do know that if you have questions, whether from the video or not, I would be quite happy to try to answer them to my God-given ability, and if I can't answer them I could ask a Christian whom God has bestowed more knowledge.

May the Lord bless you and everyone,

Greg

 

[Master Shake]

That video said that no one should work in Sabbath the fourth commandment, and whoever does should be put to death. Can you imagine like 10 millions people just dead becuase they worked on sabbath? ridiculous.


Almost everything that you do is penalty by death...crazy.

 

[huevonkiller]

Even some Christian Fundamentalists wouldn't take a few of those quotes literally. When Jesus refers to a mustard seed or bread and wine, those are parables. People have to use a bit of common sense.

The Bible is also not perfect for various reasons, that is part of the reason why I don't take it literally.

Didn't Jesus explain that the commandments weren't understood properly?

Anyway, here is an example of women not being allowed to speak:
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
i know what verse you quote about 'women not allowed to speak in church' and paul said it. here's why:

the land paul was in, Ephesus, the women were not educated. do you want uneducated preachers preaching to you? they were therefore told not to speak</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Besides that the women in church kept yelling out to their husbands to answer their question. The men were on one side and the women on the other. So basically the women weren't allowed to speak so that they wouldn't interrupt and would ask their husbands at home.</div>

I like these responses as well:<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">

There is a logical fallacy when someone uses something to discredit itself. In other words, someone using the Bible to prove the Bible is wrong.</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
No, Jesus himself said this, so it's from the Gospels (first 4 books of the OT). Also, no the Bible does not condone the practice of stoning those who commit sins against God. Read John 8:1-11 when the people caught a woman in adultry and wanted to stone her, Jesus said--He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. Jesus told those people they had no right to do it because they were just as sinful as her.</div>

Finally another example of a parable:
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."</div>

Overall the Bible has been modified by humans and translated improperly, but the video also takes quotes out of context (such as slavery and I felt the Jesus quote was a parable).

 

[rafy]

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
The Bible is also not perfect for various reasons, that is part of the reason why I don't take it literally.

Didn't Jesus explain that the commandments weren't understood properly?
</div>

I never understood how you can simply pick and choose what you want to believe. The bible presents itself as fact, just as it stated that the earth was flat. It presents itself as fact, and a few hundred years ago any form of inquiry into the "facts' of the bible would result in death, just as Bruno was executed.

Evolution, on the other hand, is a theory. It presents itself as a model that is meant to be broken. The theory in itself has many loopholes, however the very difference is that evolution is just a theory, and the bible is fact. So, if you pick and choose which facts you like to believe, or are pleasant to your ears, how could you possibly ever use the bible to substantiate your beliefs. Either you take it, or you leave it. What really gives a person the right to dictate how the bible should be interpreted, should it be self-evident as to how it should be taken in? I mean, it is the word of god. If god tells you directly that you should kill all those who work on the Sabbath, aren't you obligated to be a good Christian to carry out gods will?

I also find it very hard to you could interpret it, or such direct quotes could possibly be mistranslated.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i know what verse you quote about 'women not allowed to speak in church' and paul said it. here's why:

the land paul was in, Ephesus, the women were not educated. do you want uneducated preachers preaching to you? they were therefore told not to speak</div>

That's a clear case of a self fulfilling prophecy. It was believed that men are superior to women. The purpose of women was to attend to the man needs, raise children, and take of the home. It was the men who were supposed to fight wars, it was the men who were supposed to be the scholars and the teachers. Therefore, I think this explanation is absurd.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Besides that the women in church kept yelling out to their husbands to answer their question. The men were on one side and the women on the other. So basically the women weren't allowed to speak so that they wouldn't interrupt and would ask their husbands at home.</div>

I have no idea what this even supposed to mean, but from what I gather, it's ridiculously misogynistic.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
There is a logical fallacy when someone uses something to discredit itself. In other words, someone using the Bible to prove the Bible is wrong.</div>

That's a double edged sword. What do so many Christians use to discredit the theory of evolution. You guessed it kids, the theory of evolution. They point out the wholes, and the parts of the theory in which cannot be filled.

Also, the entire concept of a logical fallacy in using something to discredit itself is very odd imo. How are you supposed to prove any theory false without using the very hole in the theory you are trying to disprove? This concept is totally baseless imo.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, Jesus himself said this, so it's from the Gospels (first 4 books of the OT). Also, no the Bible does not condone the practice of stoning those who commit sins against God. Read John 8:1-11 when the people caught a woman in adultry and wanted to stone her, Jesus said--He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. Jesus told those people they had no right to do it because they were just as sinful as her.</div>

So, then you have two different parts of the bible contradicting themselves? I'm shocked.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Overall the Bible has been modified by humans and translated improperly, but the video also takes quotes out of context (such as slavery and I felt the Jesus quote was a parable).</div>

Sure, great, Jesus had hidden meanings behind his words. But many of these quotes are very direct, and totally obvious as to it's intentions and meaning. And I don't see the point of hiding behind the pretense of "taken out of context", and parables, when the words are plain as day.

I'd like it if you could give me one quote from the video that has been taken out of context. Aside from the Jesus quote, which as you say; and I agree, is a parable.

As far as being mistranslated, how? All these quotes are very clear. If all of those quotes have been mistranslated, how come Christians only complain about how the quotes which are negative to their agenda.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

<div class="quote_poster">rafy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So, if you pick and choose which facts you like to believe, or are pleasant to your ears, how could you possibly ever use the bible to substantiate your beliefs. Either you take it, or you leave it. What really gives a person the right to dictate how the bible should be interpreted, should it be self-evident as to how it should be taken in? I mean, it is the word of god. If god tells you directly that you should kill all those who work on the Sabbath, aren't you obligated to be a good Christian to carry out gods will?</div>Hey rafy, I agree that if someone believes the Bible is the word of God, the entire thing is from God. Sidenote, I won't watch the video.

But I can answer your question, about whether a Chrsitian should kill people who work on the Sabbath.
1st point: Reason for Sabbath
Regarding killing people that break the Sabbath, first off, the Sabbath was given to the people of Israel to give them rest and opportunity to worship God. It was a good thing, made for man not the other way around. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mark 2:27-28:</div><div class="quote_post">27Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

28"So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." </div>
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath:
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Luke 6:5:</div><div class="quote_post">And He was saying to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."</div>

2nd point: Jesus is our rest (Sabbath):
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Matt 11:28-30:</div><div class="quote_post"> 28"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

29"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

30"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." </div>

3rd point: If someone does something wrong
First, as an example, Jesus said "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting John 8:1-12:</div><div class="quote_post">1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them.

3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,

4they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.

5"Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?"

6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.

7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.

10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?"

11She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either Go From now on sin no more."] </div>

Another note, is that Christians aren't to take the law into their own hands. They know that God will reward good and punish evil.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Romans 12:17-19:</div><div class="quote_post">17Never pay back evil for evil to anyone Respect what is right in the sight of all men.

18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

19Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. </div> Although for certain things, if the person committing the wrong-doing is a Christian, they should be dis fellowshipped in hope that they would repent their sin, and return to God. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 1 Cor 6:11-13:</div><div class="quote_post">11But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.

12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. </div>
I googled this article for the location of some of the Sabbath-related bible quotes I forgot:
http://www.thegracetabernacle.org/studies/gtsn_sabbath.html

May God bless you,

Greg Wilson

 

[Iggy]

The creator of the video is ignorant. He completely took quotes from the Old Testament and ignored the New Testament. The Old Testament is a record of history and the laws were from back then. If the creator actually read the New Testament he would not be able to make any of those points. Making assumptions and bashing the Bible from reading only the Old Testament is like convicting a man guilty based on what the media says. Its not the full story. Also they basically take every single word literally, when the New Testament negates the laws such as killing/stoning people for sin. Those punishments for sin were all washed away and forgiven when Jesus died for us and ressurected again meaning we wouldn't have to suffer those consequences.

I agree with some of the posters here like Huevonkiller when they say the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. We shouldn't take it word for word, rather understand the message and point behind the words. Like taking words from the Old Testament literally is obviously obsolete, for those laws were given at that time.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Iggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The creator of the video is ignorant. He completely took quotes from the Old Testament and ignored the New Testament. The Old Testament is a record of history and the laws were from back then. If the creator actually read the New Testament he would not be able to make any of those points. Making assumptions and bashing the Bible from reading only the Old Testament is like convicting a man guilty based on what the media says. Its not the full story. Also they basically take every single word literally, when the New Testament negates the laws such as killing/stoning people for sin. Those punishments for sin were all washed away and forgiven when Jesus died for us and ressurected again meaning we wouldn't have to suffer those consequences.</div>

Who wrote the new testament?

 

[rafy]

<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Hey rafy, I agree that if someone believes the Bible is the word of God, the entire thing is from God. Sidenote, I won't watch the video.

But I can answer your question, about whether a Chrsitian should kill people who work on the Sabbath.
1st point: Reason for Sabbath
Regarding killing people that break the Sabbath, first off, the Sabbath was given to the people of Israel to give them rest and opportunity to worship God. It was a good thing, made for man not the other way around.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath:


2nd point: Jesus is our rest (Sabbath):


3rd point: If someone does something wrong
First, as an example, Jesus said "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."


Another note, is that Christians aren't to take the law into their own hands. They know that God will reward good and punish evil.
Although for certain things, if the person committing the wrong-doing is a Christian, they should be dis fellowshipped in hope that they would repent their sin, and return to God.
I googled this article for the location of some of the Sabbath-related bible quotes I forgot:
http://www.thegracetabernacle.org/studies/gtsn_sabbath.html

May God bless you,

Greg Wilson</div>

I still do not understand. Why is it that the bible tells me to kill all those who do not rest on the Sabbath? Why is it that the bible tells me to kill all those who blaspheme the Lord?

If the word of God is perfect, why would the bible contradict itself by telling one to kill, and then telling one not to kill? Why was it written in the bible so long ago that the world was flat, when it was in fact round? Why were people labeled as heretics and executed who tried to convince everyone that the world was in fact round?

<div class="quote_poster">Iggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The creator of the video is ignorant. He completely took quotes from the Old Testament and ignored the New Testament. The Old Testament is a record of history and the laws were from back then. If the creator actually read the New Testament he would not be able to make any of those points. Making assumptions and bashing the Bible from reading only the Old Testament is like convicting a man guilty based on what the media says. Its not the full story. Also they basically take every single word literally, when the New Testament negates the laws such as killing/stoning people for sin. Those punishments for sin were all washed away and forgiven when Jesus died for us and ressurected again meaning we wouldn't have to suffer those consequences.

I agree with some of the posters here like Huevonkiller when they say the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. We shouldn't take it word for word, rather understand the message and point behind the words. Like taking words from the Old Testament literally is obviously obsolete, for those laws were given at that time.</div>

The Old Testament is the word of God. The word of God is perfect. Therefore the word of God shall never change, for it is perfect. However, there are very, very man flaws in the OT. How could the bible evolve if the world of God is perfect from the start? How can there be contradictions between the OT and the NT? How can anything be wrong in the bible, for it's the word of God, and God is perfect. And the bible cannot, and therefore will not change, simply because of it's perfection.

However, there are many scientific theories that more or less prove many of the biblical claims to be false. http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/science...ible-wrong.html

What makes any person the authority, and claim which specific things God tells you to do, you should do, and which you shouldn't. Basically, if there is something in the bible that isn't pleasant to hear, you should blame it on mistranslations and misunderstandings.

There is a fallacy right there, if you aren't going to use something, then you shouldn't be able to logically use it at all. Many religious characters use the unexplained portions of the theory of evolution to discredit it in it's entirety and don't listen to any of the parts that make sense and can be proven.

The same stance should be applied to religion. Since there are so many logical fallacies and contradictions, how can the bible be used credibly?

Again, I just feel that it is very hypocritical to pick and choose which specific "perfect word of God" you should follow. You're basically taking it upon yourself to interpret the will of God, and anything that God says which may not be socially or morally acceptable is ignored.

 

[Iggy]

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who wrote the new testament?</div>

The New Testament is written by many people who were there at Jesus' time. The New Testament is everything from the beginning of Jesus' life on earth. It consists of stories about Jesus told by Evangelists and from followers that wrote about their experiences. Skip might be a better person to explain this more thoroughly.
To reply to rafy's post about 'dictating' the Bible and taking it word for word, I say yes we should obey God's every word but those certain laws were meant for the time of the Old Testament which is before Jesus. At that time believers probably did follow those orders but like I said the New Testament negates those laws for they are obsolete. The whole point of Jesus coming to earth was to die for our sins so that our sins may be forgiven and we wouldn't actually have to endure those consequences. No offense rafy but that's the thing about some people, they choose to bash the Bible based on what they hear and what little verses they might know without even reading the New Testament. You can't judge something by knowing part of it yet compoletely ignoring the rest.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Iggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The New Testament is written by many people who were there at Jesus' time. The New Testament is everything from the beginning of Jesus' life on earth. It consists of stories about Jesus told by Evangelists and from followers that wrote about their experiences. Skip might be a better person to explain this more thoroughly.
To reply to rafy's post about 'dictating' the Bible and taking it word for word, I say yes we should obey God's every word but those certain laws were meant for the time of the Old Testament which is before Jesus. At that time believers probably did follow those orders but like I said the New Testament negates those laws for they are obsolete. The whole point of Jesus coming to earth was to die for our sins so that our sins may be forgiven and we wouldn't actually have to endure those consequences. No offense rafy but that's the thing about some people, they choose to bash the Bible based on what they hear and what little verses they might know without even reading the New Testament. You can't judge something by knowing part of it yet compoletely ignoring the rest.</div>

Why would God write laws, which would later become obsolete?

 

[rafy]

<div class="quote_poster">Iggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">To reply to rafy's post about 'dictating' the Bible and taking it word for word, I say yes we should obey God's every word but those certain laws were meant for the time of the Old Testament which is before Jesus. At that time believers probably did follow those orders but like I said the New Testament negates those laws for they are obsolete. The whole point of Jesus coming to earth was to die for our sins so that our sins may be forgiven and we wouldn't actually have to endure those consequences.</div>

I'll just reiterate myself. According to the bible, in very simple terms: God is perfect, his words are perfect, his laws are perfect, and his truths are in fact truths.

So, I think shape said it very well: <div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why would God write laws, which would later become obsolete?</div>

Especially considering both God and his word are perfect.

<div class="quote_poster">Iggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No offense rafy but that's the thing about some people, they choose to bash the Bible based on what they hear and what little verses they might know without even reading the New Testament. You can't judge something by knowing part of it yet compoletely ignoring the rest.</div>

None taken.

However, I think this statement is very untrue. The "rest" that you are talking about, is contradicting "the things I hear and the little verses I might know, without reading the New Testament"

I understand that Christianity has many positive messages. But it also has negative messages. And in my choice to "bash the bible", I see it as a walking contradiction.

Another gripe I have with the religion is how circumstantial it is. If skip was born into a Hindu family, it's almost a certainty that right now he would be a Hindu. So, how can you possibly say that Christianity is the right religion? What proof do you have, besides this bible that your religion is the correct religion?

What makes Christianity so different from Greek "mythology" or Norse "mythology"?

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class="quote_poster">rafy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'll just reiterate myself. According to the bible, in very simple terms: God is perfect, his words are perfect, his laws are perfect, and his truths are in fact truths.

So, I think shape said it very well:

Especially considering both God and his word are perfect.</div>

You're comprehension of the Bible is not perfect.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
None taken.

However, I think this statement is very untrue. The "rest" that you are talking about, is contradicting "the things I hear and the little verses I might know, without reading the New Testament"

I understand that Christianity has many positive messages. But it also has negative messages. And in my choice to "bash the bible", I see it as a walking contradiction.

Another gripe I have with the religion is how circumstantial it is. If skip was born into a Hindu family, it's almost a certainty that right now he would be a Hindu. So, how can you possibly say that Christianity is the right religion? What proof do you have, besides this bible that your religion is the correct religion?

What makes Christianity so different from Greek "mythology" or Norse "mythology"?</div>

First, the reason why Christianity is different than Greek mythology is because of what I have experienced in my life (and no not what my parents told me to believe, they say I can be an atheist if I wanted to). I also didn't read the Bible and then decide to believe in God. How do you know that someone you love exists? Because they are a part of your life (etc.) correct? K then.

Why is the Bible not full of parables? There are many parables in the Bible, I've already made valid examples. Or do you think Jesus really wanted Christians to eat each other? Please man.

Next, I disagree that these quotes the creator of the video took are plain as day. Why do you think some people spend much of their lives studying the Bible? Because it is a complex book.

Let's take the unruly son into account. Well "unruly", in the spanish version (for example) of the Bible more clearly indicates that that quote is referring to a scumbag of society. In other words, a mother and father should not protect their son from punishment if the son is a serial killer/rapist and such.

The Creator of the video obviously misunderstood the Sabbath and Jesus quotes, and the woman quote has already been explained by various bible historians in the manner that I have presented it to you. In fact, if you read just before and after that woman quote (hence "context"), you'll see what I mean.

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why would God write laws, which would later become obsolete?</div>

People lived differently then.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rafy:</div><div class="quote_post">
Again, I just feel that it is very hypocritical to pick and choose which specific "perfect word of God" you should follow. You're basically taking it upon yourself to interpret the will of God, and anything that God says which may not be socially or morally acceptable is ignored.</div>

But you know little about the Bible, I don't think you're any type of expert based on you're previous comments.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iggy:</div><div class="quote_post">
No offense rafy but that's the thing about some people, they choose to bash the Bible based on what they hear and what little verses they might know without even reading the New Testament. You can't judge something by knowing part of it yet compoletely ignoring the rest.</div>

Thanks for that.

 

[rafy]

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're comprehension of the Bible is not perfect.
</div>

I'm not sure, given the context, if this is supposed to be an insult. However, of course my comprehension of the bible is not perfect. I try not to waste my time with, what are in my opinion, fairy tales.

The bible clearly states the word of God is perfect. Care to prove me wrong?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First, the reason why Christianity is different than Greek mythology is because of what I have experienced in my life (and no not what my parents told me to believe, they say I can be an atheist if I wanted to). I also didn't read the Bible and then decide to believe in God. How do you know that someone you love exists? Because they are a part of your life (etc.) correct? K then.
</div>

lmao.

So, do you care to provide any evidence why Christianity is right, and Norse mythology is wrong? Other than saying because of your own experiences?...

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why is the Bible not full of parables? There are many parables in the Bible, I've already made valid examples. Or do you think Jesus really wanted Christians to eat each other? Please man.</div>

Never said it wasn't full of parables. I asked you to give me on from the video aside from the Jesus quote. Please man.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Next, I disagree that these quotes the creator of the video took are plain as day. Why do you think some people spend much of their lives studying the Bible? Because it is a complex book.
</div>

Well, then. Let me decipher this passage for you:

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

-Exodus 31:15

This means, that if you work on Sabbath, you must be put to death. Wasn't that hard was it? Or, is this some new kind of parable where "put to death" means verbally scolded and ex-communicated?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's take the unruly son into account. Well "unruly", in the spanish version (for example) of the Bible more clearly indicates that that quote is referring to a scumbag of society. In other words, a mother and father should not protect their son from punishment if the son is a serial killer/rapist and such.</div>

Well, I'm not sure what you're definition of unruly is. Here it is according to Princeton:
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
# boisterous: noisy and lacking in restraint or discipline; "a boisterous crowd"; "a social gathering that became rambunctious and out of hand"; "a robustious group of teenagers"; "beneath the rumbustious surface of his paintings is sympathy for the vulnerability of ordinary human beings"; "an unruly class"
# disobedient: unwilling to submit to authority; "unruly teenagers"
# indocile: of persons; "the little boy's parents think he is spirited, but his teacher finds him unruly" </div>

Though, this may well be a situation where a word has evolved into a completely different meaning, as have many words in the English language. So, you're point is taken in that respect.

Furthermore:

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son
who will not obey his father and mother,
who does not heed them
when they discipline him,
then his father and his shall say
the the elders of his own town,
'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious.
He will not obey us.
He is a glutton and a drunkard.'
Then all the men of the town
shall stone him to death.

-Deut 21

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Creator of the video obviously misunderstood the Sabbath and Jesus quotes, and the woman quote has already been explained by various bible historians in the manner that I have presented it to you. In fact, if you read just before and after that woman quote (hence "context"), you'll see what I mean.</div>

...I'll just reiterate myself. Could you please explain to me how those quotes have been taken out of context? This is pretty redundant. You just claim that passages have been taken out of context, then why can't you explain how they have been?

The woman quotes have not been explained. Women being poorly educated just shows that religious men back in those days were elitist pigs and terrible human beings. It does nothing for your agenda except make religion look worse.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">People lived differently then.
</div>

Aren't people supposed to live the way God tells them to live? Not how they want to? Since Gold told people how to live, your point is moot.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But you know little about the Bible, I don't think you're any type of expert based on you're previous comments.</div>

But you know little about logic, I don't think your any type of expert based on your previous comments.

Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with a comment like this? I'm using logic; you're using...well, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do.

On another note, I also enjoyed how a few of the points I made you completely ignored.

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
lmao.

So, do you care to provide any evidence why Christianity is right, and Norse mythology is wrong? Other than saying because of your own experiences?...
</div>

Wow you are kind of disrespectful.

I thought you were smart enough to realize that I was not providing the end all reason to why Christianity is not mythology. Why are you acting like a jackass? I simply gave you the reason why I personally follow this religion. You are equally entitled to being a non-believer and I don't think non-believers are damned or anything.

<div class="quote_poster">rafy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not sure, given the context, if this is supposed to be an insult. However, of course my comprehension of the bible is not perfect. I try not to waste my time with, what are in my opinion, fairy tales.

The bible clearly states the word of God is perfect. Care to prove me wrong?

</div>

And the Bible is not complete without the New Testament.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Never said it wasn't full of parables. I asked you to give me on from the video aside from the Jesus quote. Please man.

</div>

So I've ignored the contents of the video? No I haven't.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well, then. Let me decipher this passage for you:

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

-Exodus 31:15

This means, that if you work on Sabbath, you must be put to death. Wasn't that hard was it? Or, is this some new kind of parable where "put to death" means verbally scolded and ex-communicated?
</div>

Jesus told us we weren't following the law of God correctly. This hints that this passage was mistranslated/misunderstood or modified in some way. Jesus said that we should respect the Sabbath but we can work on this day. What I've said applies to other quotes.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well, I'm not sure what you're definition of unruly is. Here it is according to Princeton:


Though, this may well be a situation where a word has evolved into a completely different meaning, as have many words in the English language. So, you're point is taken in that respect.

Furthermore:

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son
who will not obey his father and mother,
who does not heed them
when they discipline him,
then his father and his shall say
the the elders of his own town,
'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious.
He will not obey us.
He is a glutton and a drunkard.'
Then all the men of the town
shall stone him to death.

-Deut 21



...I'll just reiterate myself. Could you please explain to me how those quotes have been taken out of context? This is pretty redundant. You just claim that passages have been taken out of context, then why can't you explain how they have been? </div>

You answered your own question. See above as well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
The woman quotes have not been explained. Women being poorly educated just shows that religious men back in those days were elitist pigs and terrible human beings. It does nothing for your agenda except make religion look worse.</div>

Right before that quote it talks about people being quiet in church and such.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Aren't people supposed to live the way God tells them to live? Not how they want to? Since Gold told people how to live, your point is moot.</div>



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">

But you know little about logic, I don't think your any type of expert based on your previous comments.

Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with a comment like this? I'm using logic; you're using...well, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do.</div>

You have made comments like "the old testament is perfect" (to paraphrase). That was ignorant.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
On another note, I also enjoyed how a few of the points I made you completely ignored.</div>

I felt Iggy already addressed those points for me. But if you feel that they are so great then repost them again and I shall answer them with great pleasure.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're comprehension of the Bible is not perfect.




First, the reason why Christianity is different than Greek mythology is because of what I have experienced in my life (and no not what my parents told me to believe, they say I can be an atheist if I wanted to). I also didn't read the Bible and then decide to believe in God. How do you know that someone you love exists? Because they are a part of your life (etc.) correct? K then.

Why is the Bible not full of parables? There are many parables in the Bible, I've already made valid examples. Or do you think Jesus really wanted Christians to eat each other? Please man.

Next, I disagree that these quotes the creator of the video took are plain as day. Why do you think some people spend much of their lives studying the Bible? Because it is a complex book.

Let's take the unruly son into account. Well "unruly", in the spanish version (for example) of the Bible more clearly indicates that that quote is referring to a scumbag of society. In other words, a mother and father should not protect their son from punishment if the son is a serial killer/rapist and such.

The Creator of the video obviously misunderstood the Sabbath and Jesus quotes, and the woman quote has already been explained by various bible historians in the manner that I have presented it to you. In fact, if you read just before and after that woman quote (hence "context"), you'll see what I mean.



People lived differently then.




But you know little about the Bible, I don't think you're any type of expert based on you're previous comments.



Thanks for that.</div>

I understand people lived differently then, but if God wrote the bible and it was perfect, why would the way people live change? Why would he allow them to want to change?

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I understand people lived differently then, but if God wrote the bible and it was perfect, why would the way people live change? Why would he allow them to want to change?</div>

The Old Testament was misinterpreted/mistranslated as well though, Jesus refers to this at times.

 

[jbbDowntown]

<div class="quote_poster">Iggy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The New Testament is written by many people who were there at Jesus' time. The New Testament is everything from the beginning of Jesus' life on earth. It consists of stories about Jesus told by Evangelists and from followers that wrote about their experiences. Skip might be a better person to explain this more thoroughly.</div>

I've read that there are scholars that believe that the Gospels were written by anonymous authors that lived after Jesus' time, but that they titled their writings after Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John so that the church would more easily accept their word as Divine. I'll try to dig up those sources, but I for one believe that theory to be true. For the record, since I'm joining this conversation late, I believe the Bible to be a great book on philosophy with much valuable advice. However, I do not believe it was divinely inspired or the word of God, being that I do not believe in the existence of God. But I take as much worth from it as I do from the words of other philosophers like Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, etc.

 

[Iggy]

<div class="quote_poster">Downtown Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I've read that there are scholars that believe that the Gospels were written by anonymous authors that lived after Jesus' time, but that they titled their writings after Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John so that the church would more easily accept their word as Divine. I'll try to dig up those sources, but I for one believe that theory to be true. For the record, since I'm joining this conversation late, I believe the Bible to be a great book on philosophy with much valuable advice. However, I do not believe it was divinely inspired or the word of God, being that I do not believe in the existence of God. But I take as much worth from it as I do from the words of other philosophers like Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, etc.</div>

Those 'authors' are the Evangelists I mentioned in my post. That's what they are called.

I'm not even going to respond to half of your posts rafy, most of it is using the same points over and over again that I already have explained.

You asked how do I know that Christianity as a faith is the right faith? Well then let's look at the definition of faith.

?noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
?Idiom9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.

The second definition basically sums it up. Maybe there is nothing I can do to actually prove to you, but the fact that I have faith is why I believe.

To touch upon another point you had rafy about how the Bible states God is perfect and why should the law change and so on. Yes he Bible clearly gives the message that God is perfect, but if he created/made everything to be perfect then what's the point of life? Like someone said earlier in this thread, sins are what make us human. God always has a plan so maybe those laws were given for a purpose. I'm not going to try to find the verses of this story but the idea of God's plans reminds me of the story with Abraham. I'll briefly sum it up.

God sent an angel and told him to sacrafice his son to him. Abraham though saddened still listened and brought his son and did everything God told him to do, until God stopped him. It was God's test to Abraham's faith.

At first you may think, what the hell is God thinking? If he's perfect why is he doing this, why would he tell someone to kill something that he made and do what was unjust? Same idea applies here, people do not understand what God is doing but when it all pans out they see God's plan all along. Also like Huevonkiller said, the laws could also be mistranslated throughout the ages.

I mean that's the thing, I'm going to sound redundant but thats why people need to read the New Testament. Most of these questions wouldn't need to be asked if people knew the story behind the New Testament. And I know people like you rafy wouldn't want to 'waste' his time reading something you don't believe in and if thats the truth then what gives you the thought that you can just continue to bring negativity and ask IMO what is useless questions when you completely ignore the New Testament. I've used this example before but judging the Bible based on the very basic to almost no knowledge of it is like a random person in court coming to a conclusion of whether a man is guilty or not based on what the media says. You don't know the whole story without reading the whole entire thing, just like in court you can't sentence a man without going through all the evidence, the witnesses and so on. If you were to read a book then stop h alfway through, would you enjoy it? If you were to watch a movie and leave halfway through, would you know what its about? Without knowing the whole story, its almost like you have no right to bash it.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The Old Testament was misinterpreted/mistranslated as well though, Jesus refers to this at times.</div>

Why would God write something that would be misinterpreted or mistranslated? His word should be matter of fact without question.

I have the same views as Downtown on the Bible. It's a philosophy with great morals, but I don't think there's anything divine about it. I just think the authors of the book exaggerated a lot of the stories to make it more entertaining to read and the church figured out how to use those stories to rule with fear and guilt and if necessary justified force.

 

[jbbDowntown]

I was talking with my brother the other day, and we concluded that we would really like for aliens to peacefully come to Earth from another planet. Maybe they would have a better perspective that would put this age old argument to rest. I said, maybe they can prove where we came from and it would prove that there is no God. But then, he said, maybe they'll show up and have the exact same creation story as the Bible has, therefore proving that there most probably is a God.

So even in sci-fi theory, this is an argument that will NEVER (emphasis on NEVER) be won by either side, simply because what we choose to believe is too strongly a part of who we are and how we live to budge to the other side. What it all comes down to is respect.

This might be getting into another theological debate, but I treat religion the same way I treat homosexuality (many of my friends are gay). It is your decision and I'll respect it, as long as you respect my decision to believe or do the exact opposite of what you believe.

 

[rafy]

oh man...

But honestly, a lot of you really made my week. I mean, apparently I'm being disrespectful and a jackass for asking for asking exactly what experiences made a person become Christian.

I mean wow, Iggy and huevon, lmao. You're entitled to your beliefs, but, just seriously lmao.

Now, I'm going to stop posting in this thread before I say something I might regret and get banned or something. Eitherway, you believe what you believe, and as long as your happy that's what counts.

I know this thread made me pretty happy

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Downtown Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I was talking with my brother the other day, and we concluded that we would really like for aliens to peacefully come to Earth from another planet. Maybe they would have a better perspective that would put this age old argument to rest. I said, maybe they can prove where we came from and it would prove that there is no God. But then, he said, maybe they'll show up and have the exact same creation story as the Bible has, therefore proving that there most probably is a God.

So even in sci-fi theory, this is an argument that will NEVER (emphasis on NEVER) be won by either side, simply because what we choose to believe is too strongly a part of who we are and how we live to budge to the other side. What it all comes down to is respect.

This might be getting into another theological debate, but I treat religion the same way I treat homosexuality (many of my friends are gay). It is your decision and I'll respect it, as long as you respect my decision to believe or do the exact opposite of what you believe.</div>
I agree completely. Well said.

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class="quote_poster">rafy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">oh man...

But honestly, a lot of you really made my week. I mean, apparently I'm being disrespectful and a jackass for asking for asking exactly what experiences made a person become Christian.

</div>

Lol what is this? You're straight out lying guy, you didn't just ask me about my experiences. You also made ignorant inferences about my previous post, among other things.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting rafy:</div><div class="quote_post">
lmao

So, do you care to provide any evidence why Christianity is right, and Norse mythology is wrong? Other than saying because of your own experiences?...
</div>


You're a "jackass" because you thought I was providing the end-all point to why Christianity is superior to other mythologies, when I was really just telling you about myself. You come off as pretty immature with all the LMAOs and rofl faces, I've argued with you before and you do that a lot. That's why you're "kind of disrespectful".

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I mean wow, Iggy and huevon, lmao. You're entitled to your beliefs, but, just seriously lmao.

Now, I'm going to stop posting in this thread before I say something I might regret and get banned or something. Eitherway, you believe what you believe, and as long as your happy that's what counts.

I know this thread made me pretty happy

</div>

Well in that case I want you to keep posting in this thread so you get banned. That would make me pretty happy.

Where were these great points you made that were ignored? Jesus himself already answered many of the questions you had in this thread. Just stick to shape's argument about the Bible not being divine.

 

[Chutney]

This is an touchy subject for a lot of people, but please don't make it descend into personal attacks and sarcastic remarks. If you can't post in this thread without letting your emotions and biases get the better of you, just don't post in it all. That applies equally to both sides.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who wrote the new testament?</div> To my knowledge the Holy Spirit wrote the New Testament through,
Gospel according to Matthew - Mathew (1 of the 12 disciples, a tax collector)
Gospel according to Mark - John Mark (I believe accompanied Paul and Simon Peter, and was cousin to another early Christian Barnabas)
Gospel according to Luke - Luke (Accompanied Paul a lot, was a physician)
Gospel according to John - John (1 of the 12 disciples, was a fisherman)
Acts of the Apostles or Acts - Luke (Accompanied Paul a lot, was a physician)

** Epistle means a letter **
Epistle to the Romans - Tertius wrote it down (Romans 16:22), Paul of Tarsus must have been dictating it (originally known as Saul, a pharisee (like a Jewish lawyer), persecuted the early church, until he heard a voice saying "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" Acts 9:4, and he was blind until he met a man named Ananias, and received his sight and the Holy Spirit, and he came to become an apostle "One born out of due time."?1 Corinthians 15:8.)
1st Epistle to the Corinthians - Paul
2nd Epistle to the Corinthians - Paul
Epistle to the Galatians - Paul
Epistle to the Ephesians - Paul
Epistle to the Philipians - Paul
Epistle to the Colossians - Paul
1st Epistle to the Thessalonians - Paul
2nd Epistle to the Thessalonians - Paul
1st Epistle to Timothy - Paul
2nd Epistle to Timothy - Paul
Epistle to Titus - Paul
Epistle to Philemon - Paul
Hebrews - unsure (some say Paul, Luke, Barnabas, Apollos, or unknown author, I'll say the Holy Spirit

)

Epistle of James - James (several people named James, including 2 of the 12 apostles, but believed to be James, the half brother of Jesus)
1st Epistle of Peter - Simon Peter (1 of the 12 apostles, was a fisherman, Peter is the same thing as Cephas)
2nd Epistle of Peter - Simon Peter
1st Epistle of John - John (1 of the 12 apostles, same as author of Gospel of John)
2nd Epistle of John - John
3rd Epistle of John - John
Epistle of Jude - Jude (several people named Jude, but believed to be brother of James and half-brother of Jesus)
The Revelation - John

I hope that helped, most importantly it was the Holy Spirit that worked through men to write the word of God.

I'll get to more questions when I have more time, and I'll ask a more knowledgeable Christian so that I won't stray from God's word.

May God bless you all,

Greg Wilson

 

[jbbDowntown]

<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I hope that helped, most importantly it was the Holy Spirit that worked through men to write the word of God.

I'll get to more questions when I have more time, and I'll ask a more knowledgeable Christian so that I won't stray from God's word.</div>

I just noticed a difference between a religiously-inclined writer and a historian. If your post was written as a historian, or even an academic theologian, it would have read "most importantly it is belived that the Holy Spirit worked through men to write the word accredited to the Judeo-Christian God."

Hence, one of my large problems with religion(s). Every of the tens of thousands of them believe their's to be so true, they don't use any qualifiers in their writing that suggest further research is needed. To stunt the growth of knowledge in such a way is selfish and irresponsible IMO.