I can feel them coming... the Lillard Wars

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PapaG said:
Kenneth Faried put up huge numbers in a shit conference. Clearly he wasn't worth a lottery pick.
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I am not sure he would have been a good pick as a lottery pick... and that's understanding that rebounding transfers, statistically, much better to the NBA than scoring does.

In any case, pointing out an exception (insofar as a late first rounder outplayed his draft position) doesn't impact the rule very much.

Ed O.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Faried also dominated big program schools when they played outside the Ohio Valley Conference. Lillard has never dominated a school outside the Big Sky.

2010-2011

15 pts 12 rebs 5 stls Vs. Ohio State (Sullinger: 8 pts 8 rebs)
12 pts 17 rebs Vs. Louisville
20 pts 18 rebs Vs. Florida
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Fuck, lets rehash this again. Lillard dropped 36 on SMC who was a 7 seed! He had a double-double against BYU, another tourney team.

But again, lets just skip those teams, because they didn't come from a power conference, so they weren't any good.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Marvin Williams vs. Harrison Barnes

College Stats
Pts: MW - 11.3 | HB - 17.1
Rbs: MW - 6.6 | HB - 5.2
Stls: MW - 1.1 | HB - 1.1
FG%: MW - 50.6 | HB - 44.0
3pt%: MW - 43.2% | HB - 35.8

Measurements
Height: MW - 6'8.25" | HB - 6'8"
Weight: MW - 228 | HB - 228
Wingpsan: MW - 7'3.5" | HB - 6'11.25"
Max vert: MW - 35" | HB - 39.5"
Bench: MW - 12 | HB - 15
Lane Agility: MW - 11.11| HB - 10.93
3/4 Sprint: MW - 3.17 | HB - 3.16
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Don't forget to add that Marvin Williams got those averages at just 22mpg. Barnes got those numbers at roughly 29mpg.

Barnes just doesn't do it for me. Both players have the same temperment as well, underwhelming.
 
As for the Lillard wars, he might very well be BPA at #6. The draft very well could go

1. Davis
2. Robinson
3. MKG
4. Beal
5. Barnes

That leaves us with Lillard, Drummond, Soup Juggler types at #6, unless someone else shines in workouts
 
MickZagger said:
Don't forget to add that Marvin Williams got those averages at just 22mpg. Barnes got those numbers at roughly 29mpg.

Barnes just doesn't do it for me. Both players have the same temperment as well, underwhelming.
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I'm not to enthused with Barnes, he is the only person i'd debate about picking Lillard over. I don't think I could pick Lillard over him, would probably call up GS or the Raptors about a pick swap instead and then pick Lillard with there pick. Anyone else falls to 6 and I take them no hesitation. If its Drummond I pick him and immediately call Bill Walton/Sabonis(Yea screw you big men coaches who weren't blazers!) and offer one of them a 3 year contract to personally coach Drummond. I dont' see Drummond really getting it together for at least 2 years, I think he would be a nice 15-20m big who gets in foul trouble but blocks a lot of shots and after he is taught to box out correctly has a very good rebounding rate. After 2 years a 30 year old LMA who is a stud paired with a Blooming Drummond who finally figured it out would be a Devastating Duo. Just gotta put the other pieces around them correctly to have a nice 2 to 3 year window of opportunity which unless your the thunder or spurs is about all you can hope for every 10 years.
 
While I'm not sold either way, with all due respect, Ed O (because I really like the way you back up your opinions with fact) I think the prejudice against seniors and small schools can be misplaced. Yes, because the money is so good, the top tier players are likely to leave college after 1-2 years, but often the guys who stay 3-4 are more NBA ready and more mature overall. Some are later developers; not all young men are physically fully developed at 19.

Also, there have been so many good to great NBA players out of small schools. I wouldn't want to turn a guy down because Central Arkansas State didn't even make the NCAA when Scottie Pippen was there....or because he came from Division III Longwood College like Jerome Kersey.

So, they may be factors to consider, but not overriding.
 
Why fear a "shoot first PG"? Look at R. Westbrook. (don't even try to say you wouldn't want him in a Blazer uni). His perceived lack of the ability to be a floor general was well chronicled. I'm not saying that Lillard is Westbrook, but don't be so quick to dismiss him as Damon Stoudamire either. Had Damon been able to finish at the rim we may have won a title or two. He was a shoot first PG that averaged 12 PPG. Ouch.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/russell-westbrook
 
Kaydow said:
Why fear a "shoot first PG"? Look at R. Westbrook. (don't even try to say you wouldn't want him in a Blazer uni). His perceived lack of the ability to be a floor general was well chronicled. I'm not saying that Lillard is Westbrook, but don't be so quick to dismiss him as Damon Stoudamire either. Had Damon been able to finish at the rim we may have won a title or two. He was a shoot first PG that averaged 12 PPG. Ouch.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/russell-westbrook
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The biggest difference coming out between the two is age (and that matters a lot when you're projecting player development). Also, Westbrook didn't play point for UCLA, he was an off-guard opposite from Darren Collison. Switching to point guard was based off of pure projection.
 
I made this for us.

22239593.jpg


make your own here
 
No.

I'm just saying that Grimm is a coldly accurate portrayal of the Portland police. :D
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Here are two small-school comparisons who put up similar numbers to Lillard:

Rodney Stuckey
Lester Hudson

The only difference being, both of them put up those numbers in their sophomore years.
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Agree that both are close, but Stuckey only shot 27% from three that year. So, maybe you call Lillard's ceiling Stuckey with a better outside shot? That's not too bad. The floor is Hudson, also possible.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The biggest difference coming out between the two is age (and that matters a lot when you're projecting player development). Also, Westbrook didn't play point for UCLA, he was an off-guard opposite from Darren Collison. Switching to point guard was based off of pure projection.
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Age is something you have to take into consideration. But, I think Lillard would have came out after his sophmore year had he not missed most the season.
 
Did you see the Sacramento pre-draft workout?



What is significant is that this isn't a Youtube video compiling an entire career worth of highlights into one clip. This is a guy who turned on a video camera from the sidelines of a pre-draft workout (with a team that most likely won't even draft him) for a 3 minute span of time. Just look at the form and the shooting skill.

We've all heard of the comment "You can't teach height.". But similar to that, there's something along those same lines of "You can't teach lights-out shooting". When you see pure shooting like that it really reminds us old-timers of guys like Bird, Reggie Miller, Mullin, Rick Barry, etc. And while I'm not saying some of those guys didn't bring other skills to the game that Lillard possibly might be missing once you put him in an NBA environment, my point is that Lillard's form and shot remind me exactly of players like that, and players who have that skill as their primary asset in their games traditionally do very well in the NBA (see above list of said players).
 
What I don't get is how people are comparing Beal's 3pt shooting to Ray Allen's. He shot 33% from three in college. Lillard is a better shooter than Beal.
 
espn_hall_of_famer said:
What is significant is that this isn't a Youtube video compiling an entire career worth of highlights into one clip. This is a guy who turned on a video camera from the sidelines of a pre-draft workout (with a team that most likely won't even draft him) for a 3 minute span of time. Just look at the form and the shooting skill.
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i counted over a dozen video edits so thats complete bullshit, to be honest

and martell webster
 
But have you seen an NBA workout? There's a big difference between "edit" and just pausing a camera while the player moves from spot A after ending his drill and spot B to begin his his next drill. This wasn't like "edit" where they focused on the positives or cut out misses. This was just paused between dead spots and done from a neutral party.
 
espn_hall_of_famer said:
But have you seen an NBA workout? There's a big difference between "edit" and just pausing a camera while the player moves from spot A after ending his drill and spot B to begin his his next drill. This wasn't like "edit" where they focused on the positives or cut out misses. This was just paused between dead spots and done from a neutral party.
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so you are telling me he had a 3 minute workout huh?

interesting theory
 
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