I can feel them coming... the Lillard Wars

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listen hollinger, not trying to beat you up here, but shit...making some wide open shots for a couple minutes on youtube doesnt equal reggie miller or for gods sake larry bird
 
I didn't say he was Larry Bird. In fact, what I said was that while those players had other skills that went beyond shooting, it was a skill that those players had that was very similar to the skill that Lillard has shown to some of us consistently that have scouted him and been preaching of those skills for months now. Obviously if I said a guy who is 7'4 showed a lot of height like Sabonis, Kareem and Yao Ming. But at the same time, there is a counter argument that he's showing the same skill (trait) that Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley and Mark Eaton showed, and so it doesn't mean he would be great.

In this case, I'm isolating a specific skill and trait that is very unique. Sure Diebler can shoot a 3-pointer, Steve Kerr can shoot a 3-pointer, but they can't run all over the court and shoot 95% from anywhere on the court every time they step on a court unguarded and wide open. Every single workout Lillard goes to, he shoots like 95% when unguarded and shooting from anywhere within 30 feet. Guys like Reggie Miller, Rick Barry, and Chris Mullin were very similar when doing shoot-around during workouts. There aren't examples of guys who can shoot like this other than these select groups. It's not like Webster or Bayless or anyone else for that matter that was drafted and is no longer in the NBA ever had workouts like Lillard is putting out in every city he visits. Does it mean he'll eventually be those other players? No. As I said they grew their games and had other skills that led to their success. I'm just saying he's already exhibiting a trait that has produced great player after great player who have exhibited the same traits.

And I didn't say it was a 3-minute workout. The point is an edited shot is one in which the person cuts out the bad parts and makes everything have a positive outcome. I can't state this clearly enough. Look at the workout schedule, ask anyone who was in that arena that day. That is the workout with the dead periods cut out of it. That is the 3 minutes of action in an actual 45 minute workout that was continuous with a lot of discussion with the coaches on what the next drill was going to entail, and those pieces edited out of that tape, but nobody edited that workout to take negative performances out of it (which is really the key point I was getting at).
 
Most good players can hit a great clip unguarded. I bet Steve Kerr probably COULD shoot 95% in a workout setting. Hell, right now he can probably shoot 75%.
 
espn_hall_of_famer said:
Sure Diebler can shoot a 3-pointer, but (he) can't run all over the court and shoot 95% from anywhere on the court every time they step on a court unguarded and wide open.
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[video=youtube;s3EJhGcwFU8]

martell webster got drafted at #6 because rumor has it he hit like 10 straight from 35 feet

now lillard might be the next world b free, and he might be the next lester hudson, but again, i think you are reading entirely too much into that video
 
For those who are down on Lillard somewhat because of people being excited about the workout video, what would you have needed to see on the video to change your mind? What more would you have wanted to see out of him?
 
I want a video of him playing point guard and running a team against a top college team. That's the video I want to see.
 
3RA1N1AC said:
but again, i think you are reading entirely too much into that video
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Fair enough. Obviously a video (that I'm assuming you've already seen and made you opinion on) isn't going to change your mind. For me, I read absolutely 0 into that video. All it did for me was provide a Youtube link to what I've been preaching since Lillard caught my notice back last year and I've been trying to convey to the fans as being a much needed asset that not only can drive to the bucket and score at will, but can also shoot like I haven't seen since Steph Curry as far as at the NCAA small school shooting level. So I was just trying to share the video once I saw someone had taken a video of this workout and started showing some of what I've been preaching for the last year. But time will tell.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I want a video of him playing point guard and running a team against a top college team. That's the video I want to see.
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So basically there's no possible way that you'd have a favorable view of him.
 
you like that diebler video? 96%!

lillard could be good, and if hes drafted by the blazers i really hope he is
 
LameR said:
So basically there's no possible way that you'd have a favorable view of him.
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LOL. Getting flashbacks to the 1978 draft when everyone sat around telling me I could hype up a young Indiana State player when I showed them some film of him actually performing those great basketball skills against a real NCAA team.

Or again in 1985 when I was asked to produce some film of a young stud from Wisconsin-Stevens Point actually playing PG against a big name school. What can you say, some people make up their minds without looking at history.
 
I think we just expect every player to be perfect. Is Lillard going to be a good pro? I honestly don't know, but it's funny how we (and I say we, not just one or two people) hold things against players, college and pros that are beyond their control. We spend a ton of time bashing on them for what they can't do as well, rather than thinking of how they can fit. I think there are better players than Lillard (duh), but I think it's a bit silly some of the criticism we give these players.
 
this reminds me of early 1941 when i was telling everyone about an impending japanese sneak attack
 
LameR said:
For those who are down on Lillard somewhat because of people being excited about the workout video, what would you have needed to see on the video to change your mind? What more would you have wanted to see out of him?
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I don't see at all why a workourt video would change a mind on him. I think anyone down on him would be down on him for anything else about him, that can not be answered in a workout video.
 
espn_hall_of_famer said:
LOL. Getting flashbacks to the 1978 draft when everyone sat around telling me I could hype up a young Indiana State player when I showed them some film of him actually performing those great basketball skills against a real NCAA team.

Or again in 1985 when I was asked to produce some film of a young stud from Wisconsin-Stevens Point actually playing PG against a big name school. What can you say, some people make up their minds without looking at history.
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What, you discovered some hidden gem in fucking Larry Bird? GTFO with that.
 
RR7 said:
I don't see at all why a workourt video would change a mind on him. I think anyone down on him would be down on him for anything else about him, that can not be answered in a workout video.
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I don't mean that it would necessarily cause someone to pull a 180, but I think that we get established in opinions and anything that may go counter to that we find reasons to tear apart.
 
LameR said:
I don't mean that it would necessarily cause someone to pull a 180, but I think that we get established in opinions and anything that may go counter to that we find reasons to tear apart.
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I just mean, I can question Drummond's offensive game, but can justify fears by saying UConn didn't use him in a typical big man fashion. Few college guys are. Even Oden got ignored often by Cook and Conley. But I can say it scares me,a nd see a video of him showing great footwork, with a clean hook,a nd range out to 15 feet, and feel a little bit better. But, if I mainly don't like Drummond because of his motor, him running up and down the court in a video is absolutely not going to help me.
So it's the same with Lillard. Biggest questions seem to be him playing at a small school against weak competiton. Nobody says oh, he can't shoot. It's can he do it against much better players. So there isn't a video you can provide. It's one of those where you take a gut choice with it, yeah, I think he can, no I don't, yeah I think Drummond will try harder, no he won't, and you roll with it. No workout video unguarded will answer questions like those.
 
i thought you liked that, man make up your mind, your usually so decisive
 
dude, no joke, whiskey gives me an unquenchable rock hard meat hammer
 
3RA1N1AC said:
i thought you liked that, man make up your mind, your usually so decisive
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LOL. Well played.

My real objective was just to share the video in case some hadn't seen it. I usually am a quiet observer on the boards and blogs, but I've been preaching Lillard for some time in the circles and when I got my hands on the video from the other day, it seemed like I was finally getting some visual that was making some rounds out there.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to actually make comparisons to Bird directly with Lillard as that's absurd. But the comparisons can be made with with just about anyone when people start going down slippery slopes like "let them prove it against a real school" or something along those lines. That is just fodder for people who want to make an argument because they think they have something, but we can just as easily show it's been dis-proven time and again with guys like Porter, Bird, heck even Steph Curry recently was fighting that same stigma.
 
i think the small school with the questionable competition is a fairly valid drawback, but thats why theres scouts watching every minute of every game hes ever played in
 
3RA1N1AC said:
i think the small school with the questionable competition is a fairly valid drawback, but thats why theres scouts watching every minute of every game hes ever played in
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Good post. I think that is spot-on. I think one thing that many overlook is that in order to be a guy who no scout had even heard of through his high school years, then goes on to an obscure school like Weber State, and manages to begin displaying skill sets so outrageous to draw scouts coming and watching every game he's played in - then having said scouts going out on a limb with this guy nobody has heard of staking their reputations by saying he's a high lottery pick alone shows just how superior his skills are from much of the NCAA players in America.

But your assessment is likely correct. I suppose in a way I was like a boy walking into a bar and telling my friends all night long that the blonde in the corner is looking at me and wants me to go home with her. Then at the end of the night when she hands me her number, I feel vindicated that my earlier instincts were likely correct. But only to find out that maybe she gave her number out to 3-4 guys just looking for someone to warm the sheets for $40. So that's a good point with the Diebler video, it shows me maybe I should have taken a step back and not been so ready to take it as the exception, but it was what I was expecting to see. And at the end of the day, I still think it's a better indicator than the poor performances we see from guys like Drummond, Rivers or Wroten in these pre-draft workouts.
 
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espn_hall_of_famer said:
Fair enough. Obviously a video (that I'm assuming you've already seen and made you opinion on) isn't going to change your mind. For me, I read absolutely 0 into that video. All it did for me was provide a Youtube link to what I've been preaching since Lillard caught my notice back last year and I've been trying to convey to the fans as being a much needed asset that not only can drive to the bucket and score at will, but can also shoot like I haven't seen since Steph Curry as far as at the NCAA small school shooting level. So I was just trying to share the video once I saw someone had taken a video of this workout and started showing some of what I've been preaching for the last year. But time will tell.
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So he is a 6'2 shooting guard....good to know....
 
check this out....another awesome SAC workout...Nobody missed a shot...well except for the white guy....



He is 1.25" shorter than Waiters but Lillard has a .5" longer wingspan.

Not exactly a huge difference there

Oh and he's also a point guard
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Is he? b\c he really doesn't play or pass like one....Waiters has some explosion to his game and can absorb contact and still finish....I don't see that with Lillard.....
 
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