I don't understand religion

[pegs]

Okay, first of all, I believe in a God. Well, I believe in some all-powerful force; which is the reason why we're here...and I consider that God.

Second of all, I believe everything else about religions is really questionable. I'm not trying to offend people, that's just how I feel.

I'm reading about Islam, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, but it doesn't make sense to me. How can one guy come out and say he received messages from god...only to have a bunch of people just straight-up believe him, no questions asked? I mean, they don't think for a second that this guy might have lost it? They don't think that maybe, he's just reaching out for attention? I mean, there was no real evidence that he actually received messages from God. People just accepted it. Really, reading about Islam is only reinforcing my thoughts about religion.

Let me say this again. I'm not trying to offend people. This is how I feel about religion, my thoughts about religion, and I'm just trying to figure out an understanding of why everyone believes in religions based on responses. Why do/did people buy everything they're told?

 

[#1_War_Poet_ForLife]

That reminds me of the Mormon episode on South Park.
I believe there is a great force, but everything after that is up to interpretation.

 

[AEM]

It all comes down to faith, no matter which religion you believe in. At least in Judaism, existence wouldn't have any purpose if the truth of God were clear and unequivocal. The rest, to paraphrase the Sage Hillel, is commentary.

 

[Dumpy]

The philosopher Bertrand Russell wrote a series of essays on religion that are very insightful. Look for it--it's called "Why I am Not a Christian."

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 25 2008, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The philosopher Bertrand Russell wrote a series of essays on religion that are very insightful. Look for it--it's called "Why I am Not a Christian."</div>

Hm. That sounds like a good idea. I'll try that.

Btw, AEM and MNFL, thanks for answering. Taking those responses into consideration, it makes a little more sense as to why people grasp religion so much, no matter how..."questionable" they seem to be.

 

[Thoth]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MyNetsForLife @ Mar 25 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That reminds me of the Mormon episode on South Park.
I believe there is a great force, but everything after that is up to interpretation.</div>

As a native Utahn & someone who felt like pegs does, this episiode got me thinking. I now consider myself more a deist, taoist, & gnostic.

I have come to believe that Karl Marx was onto something (tho not 100% correct) when he said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." It bothers me to no end that some people think they can do whatever they want and as long as they believe they are fine.

If you are sincere and truly believe super just don't get all judgmental and huffy if you run across someone who believes different or try to impose your will on others like the Utah Legislature has been known to do.

Bottom line; things like Charity, compassion, & tolerance have been neglected for just another excuse to feel good and validate what may be erroneous behavior.

 

[speeds]

Religion: invented to prevent people from asking difficult questions.

 

[Chutney]

lol, I've been studying Daoism for the past three months: now there's a tradition that leaves you scratching your head at times.

 

[The Return of the Raider]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Mar 26 2008, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Religion: invented to prevent people from asking difficult questions.</div>

It's all BS.


That about sums it all up. I think that people generally desire to have a set of rules for which to govern themselves. People want some amount of inspiration to keep them interested in not letting a moving train to hit them while they drag themselves to work every day. Tradition is a big part of religion, because, like you said, it prevents people from asking difficult questions about it. 'We are doing this because we have always done this'. Many governments love extremely conservative religions because it takes some of the load of of their police work. Social/religious repercussions guilt trip people into behavior. Like Joe Rogan said, "people bullsh*t", and people believe a load of crap as long as someone who they trust is telling it to them. Parents are to blame for the continuing existance of religion. Your parents, grandparents, and on and on might be the nicest people in the world, but they believe in things that don't exist. It they believe in it, they are going to try to make their kids believe in it too, no matter how weird it may be.

Joe Rogan did a stand up comedy thing in Seattle that had me cracking up. "Religious people tend to make a distinction between human beings and *all* other animal species in the world - to the point where humans are not considered animals, but instead something more special created in the likeness of god. With the human genome project, they found out that humans contain 96% of the identical DNA that an ape has. Essentially, humans are pretty much just a different species of ape/monkey/gorilla/etc. If I had a sandwich that was 96% shit, and 4% ham, then it must be a ham sandwich, right?!? <laughter> I'm not saying there is no god. However, it appears that god created a bunch of apes that think they are not apes."


The Christian baptism is one thing that makes me scratch my head. It's slightly different depending on which denomination you are. For Catholics, every baby is born into this world from sinners, therefore they are sinners by default. Baptists believe that babies don't sin because they are babies - babies know not what they do, so can't be held accountable....yet. They baptize their members after they are grown up a bit. Anyway, the baptism is supposed to be the equivalent of a CTRL-ALT-DELETE sequence on your computer. It's a ritual that allows the priest to cast a spell on you that removes all your sins. It's sort of the right of passage to enter into that particular religion in a formal way. That's about all I know about baptism. Personally, I am skeptical that dunking me in holy water and reciting a few phrases is going to make any kind of supernatural impact or change in the universe. I also question whether the water is actually holy. Prove to me that that water is "holy". If I take it to a lab, will a biologist or chemist be able to find traces of "holy" in that water? Will it burn the skin of a vampire on contact? Maybe, but I don't believe in vampires either.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.

 

[Denny Crane]

My answer to this thread is in my blog here:

http://sportstwo.com/forums/blog-b1.html

 

[AEM]

Coming from a Jewish perspective, reconciling science and religion was never an issue, but in fact an affirmation of the power of each for me.

That is by no means unique to Judaism, however. To quote the Lebanese Shia Imam Musa al Sadr, science and religion "...were born twins... Together the two of these determine man's fate and his perfection. Science was a natural way that the work of the creator can be seen and can be known..." Hiyakat Al Ilm wa al Din, reprinted in Al Islam, pp. 81-103, as cited in Ajami, The Vanished Imam at 92.

 

[Thoth]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Mar 26 2008, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>lol, I've been studying Daoism for the past three months: now there's a tradition that leaves you scratching your head at times.</div>

Agreed; Trying to comprehend the Tao te Ching is a melon scratcher as well.

 

[Thoth]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Mar 26 2008, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Religion: invented to prevent people from asking difficult questions.</div>

Or how about this one, "Every church is a stone on the grave of a god-man: it does not want him to rise up again under any circumstances." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

It is interesting how the word was derived. Specifically, the American Heritage definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

 

[Thoth]

I agree w/ ROTR (in post 9) to a degree. It seems there are alot of rituals and if you are truly sincere and you believe it helps you super.

I am not railing against truly religious people just the way some apply their belief e.g. Athletes praying after scoring (Matthew 6:5)

Its important not just to go thru the motions or be insincere. Otherwise, you are no better than the Jewish Elders that Jesus railed against

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.

 

[huevonkiller]

Religion is also based on one's personal experiences and how science alone may not explain a unique circumstance.

I'm being broad here, don't include me in this discussion please. :[

 

[Kid Chocolate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.
</div>

it's a personal thing, and you have to see it as that.
a lot of things in the world are about perspective, people don't realize that, they take their own opinion as absolute. if that makes sense and you can see past it, you will understand it.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Mar 27 2008, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Religion is also based on one's personal experiences and how science alone may not explain a unique circumstance.

I'm being broad here, don't include me in this discussion please. :[</div>

Yeah, I've heard that before. That's understandable. I could see where you're coming from with that.

I was wondering if you'd pop up in this thread. Sorry if I offended you in any way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>it's a personal thing, and you have to see it as that.
a lot of things in the world are about perspective, people don't realize that, they take their own opinion as absolute. if that makes sense and you can see past it, you will understand it.</div>

That makes sense to me. Depending on a countless number of circumstances, including personal experiences, people will be bound to have different views on different things, such as religion.

I mean, I look at Muhammed, and think...is this guy insane? Others would look at him, and think...how could a guy with such pure intentions be lying about such a thing as receiving messages from god?

Just depends on how you look at things.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.
</div>


faith in what? your jumpshot?

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.
</div>


faith in what? your jumpshot?
</div>

I have faith in the fact that I could whoop your ass in basketball.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.
</div>


faith in what? your jumpshot?
</div>

I have faith in the fact that I could whoop your ass in basketball.
</div>

start praying!

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.
</div>


faith in what? your jumpshot?
</div>

I have faith in the fact that I could whoop your ass in basketball.
</div>

start praying!
</div>

Sorry, I don't believe in prayer.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.
</div>


faith in what? your jumpshot?
</div>

I have faith in the fact that I could whoop your ass in basketball.
</div>

start praying!
</div>

Sorry, I don't believe in prayer.

</div>

Ok, we can't live that far from each other. You're in NY, I'm in NJ. At most, I'm looking at an 8 hour drive. I'll drive up to wherever you are, and we play 1 on 1 full court up to 5. The game is worth $1,000, plus gas money only if I win.

PM me details.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 27 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE DADDY @ Mar 26 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>understanding religion is a personal thing, because it starts with, ends with, and is based purely on faith.</div>

I have faith in some things.

Unfortunately, religion is not one of them. So, if what you're saying is true...then, I guess I'll never really completely understand religion.
</div>


faith in what? your jumpshot?
</div>

I have faith in the fact that I could whoop your ass in basketball.
</div>

start praying!
</div>

Sorry, I don't believe in prayer.

</div>

Ok, we can't live that far from each other. You're in NY, I'm in NJ. At most, I'm looking at an 8 hour drive. I'll drive up to wherever you are, and we play 1 on 1 full court up to 5. The game is worth $1,000, plus gas money only if I win.

PM me details.
</div>

P*ssy.

 

[Denny Crane]

Scientists now believe that many of the religious figures in history were influenced by halucinigens. The locations of several specific places of worship or notable places in religion were built on top of naturally occurring gas vents and the gas induced hallucinations. Other forms of religion (American Indians come to mind) were more deliberate in use of hallucinigenetic drugs or herbs (Peyote, for example).

http://www.psychanalyse-paris.com/843-Anthropology-and.html

If someone hallucinates that god talks to them, they can believe it and not be lying about it.

 

[AEM]

^ That's an old argument, that dates back to the 19th century (at the latest). On the other hand, there are those who maintain that the key property of mind-altering substances is in fact the ability to see past the mundane reality, and therefore to see ...God?

 

[Denny Crane]

In your case, it's http://www.manischewitz.com/

 

[AEM]

Manischewitz wine - making Jews diabetic for decades...

 

[The Return of the Raider]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AEM @ Mar 27 2008, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^ That's an old argument, that dates back to the 19th century (at the latest). On the other hand, there are those who maintain that the key property of mind-altering substances is in fact the ability to see past the mundane reality, and therefore to see ...God?</div>

It's an even older arguement than that; it goes way beyond that to the beginnings of mankind. Here is something I found today.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Religion and drugs are inextricably linked, from spacey cults to Christianity. Each owes their history and perhaps their ultimate origin to these ethnogens.

In Exodus 16:14, Moses introduces his followers to what appears to be Psyclibon Mushrooms, small circular objects sprouting from the moist ground.

They ground up the substance using mortar and pestel, finding otherwise it would stink and breed worms if left unattended. Moses implored his followers to preserve this "manna" for future generations. In the New Testament, Jesus sings the praises of using wine in moderation for religious ceremonies and celebrations. Native American religions involve the use of peyote as a means for self-exploration and tobacco as a means to send prayers to ancestors.</div>


go read this full page here:
"Religion, Drugs Similarly Affect Brain"

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n234/a03.html


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Being "high" on Christ and life seems take on a whole new meaning.

What about the devout and other deeply religious people, are they addicted? It's certainly possible.

John Bradshaw, a former cocaine addict and now self-help guru and evangelical, equated the two experiences' effect on dopamine levels.

Of course, being "addicted" to religion is not necessarily a bad thing in itself.

Many use the crutch to avoid other drugs or correct destructive behavior.</div>

This is how Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step programs work. They recognise how powerful your chemical addiction may be, and they attempt to replace one addiction for another. That way, your body still gets the same level of dopamine, and makes addiction to the other substance a smoother transition. When people hit rock bottom and start going to AA, they are already in a mode where they are looking for hope. They sell you on the idea that only God can save you from your addiction. If the person buys into it, then great. The programs did something that caused you not to use drugs or alcohol.