I hate the Lakers.

[hasoos]

its fine to hate a team.. but liek I had mentioned in another thread in the Lakers forum.. to treat another losses as a victory to us, is the behavior of a 16 year old, and shows a losing mentality.

16 year old? Why that is much better than a 3 year old. I feel much better already!!

 

[chris_in_pdx]

its fine to hate a team.. but liek I had mentioned in another thread in the Lakers forum.. to treat another losses as a victory to us, is the behavior of a 16 year old, and shows a losing mentality.

Incorrect. It shows that hating the Lakers transcends being a Blazer fan. It transcends being an NBA fan or a sports fan in general. It means hating an organization and it's fan base that for almost three decades has stood for smugness, egotism, poor winning (and losing), and an insufferable lack of respect towards it's opponents. It's fan base ignorantly and classlessly use the team's success as a means to claim superiority over other teams fans. One must only observe the behavior of Laker fans in the Rose Garden. Plus, DaRizzle's claim that he's not a "bandwaggoner" is laughable, since he's never had to endure any kind of lasting pain and emotional anguish for rooting and hoping for success for a Laker team that's clearly outmatched at the hands of it's opponents.

I myself have long decided that I am a Laker Hater more than I am a Blazer fan. I root for any team that takes the court vs. the Urine and Bruise. I root for them to go 0-82 every year. I hope that they fail so completely that they have to shut down as an NBA franchise for pure ineptness. Yes, it's petty, and vengeful, and spiteful, but over three decades of watching the Blazers and the rest of the NBA come out on the short end of the stick to the Lakers more often than not, and having to have that fact shoved in your face by Laker "fans" who wore Detroit Jerseys in the late 80s and Bulls Jerseys in the 90s, makes a fire pit of hell in my heart that will never be extinguished.

 

[Wheels]

Incorrect. It shows that hating the Lakers transcends being a Blazer fan. It transcends being an NBA fan or a sports fan in general. It means hating an organization and it's fan base that for almost three decades has stood for smugness, egotism, poor winning (and losing), and an insufferable lack of respect towards it's opponents. It's fan base ignorantly and classlessly use the team's success as a means to claim superiority over other teams fans. One must only observe the behavior of Laker fans in the Rose Garden. Plus, DaRizzle's claim that he's not a "bandwaggoner" is laughable, since he's never had to endure any kind of lasting pain and emotional anguish for rooting and hoping for success for a Laker team that's clearly outmatched at the hands of it's opponents.

I myself have long decided that I am a Laker Hater more than I am a Blazer fan. I root for any team that takes the court vs. the Urine and Bruise. I root for them to go 0-82 every year. I hope that they fail so completely that they have to shut down as an NBA franchise for pure ineptness. Yes, it's petty, and vengeful, and spiteful, but over three decades of watching the Blazers and the rest of the NBA come out on the short end of the stick to the Lakers more often than not, and having to have that fact shoved in your face by Laker "fans" who wore Detroit Jerseys in the late 80s and Bulls Jerseys in the 90s, makes a fire pit of hell in my heart that will never be extinguished.

That right their explains it. I am a Blazer fan and a fan of the wonderful sport of Basketball. Some people will just hate, and I guess thats now what I'm about. It reminds me of when I went to Yankee Stadium a couple years back and they played the Mets.. their were fans walking around with Red Sox Hats and Mets Jerseys.. that to me is as sad as a bandwagon fan. At least bandwagon fans show their allegiance to one team. Not spread 50/50.. or in your case since you are a laker hater over Blazer fan and an 0-82 record would be victory for you.. you spread your allegiances to 29 teams.. that puts your alliegance percentage at a whopping 3.45% to each other team.. thats a lot of bandwagons to hop to and from.

 

[Wheels]

and it reminds me of.. sorry to offend some.. cause I know youre not all like that.. but a lot of Beaver fans are the same way with the Ducks. Strikes me as pathetic. But I know not all are like that.

 

[DaRizzle]

Plus, DaRizzle's claim that he's not a "bandwaggoner" is laughable, since he's never had to endure any kind of lasting pain and emotional anguish for rooting and hoping for success for a Laker team that's clearly outmatched at the hands of it's opponents.

Dude, your just envious that my team kicks ass....I was born in 1979...my dad took me to my first game in the 1987 season...I was able to say hi to Jack and saw Magic dribble the ball only 10 feet away from me when I was walking down by the court...needless to say I was hooked.

Is it my fault that I grew up in the town that had the Lakers? Is it my fault that I started appreciating sports when I was 8 and the Lakers happened to be good??? There was the mid 90's when the Lakers were down but I was still a fan. Would you like to see my "Wall of Lakers" in my apt? Just to jog your selective memory I stated hanging with you guys in the midst of Kobe demanding a trade and the Lakers about to be blown up...So dont talk to me about me being around only for the good times....Its not my fault my team has kicked ass over the years.


...bitter old Blazers fan

 

[Wheels]

^ bandwagoner

 

[Da_O]

Uh that's a lie, he didn't chuck out anyone in the Spurs series when they were going for the four peat. Horry did.

28 PPG, 54 TS% against SA, and Horry went dead cold if he hits one three they win a series.








He had 20+ points at halftime in the first round in 2006, the team was down 20. Unlike other people handling the ball every possession, he tried to get his teammates involved. Everyone saying he quit on that night is reaching.




I think you're being awfully selective with some of those games, and those are team losses in bold.




Even in the Boston Series, he wasn't terrible. 51 TS%, 26 PPG, 5 APG.

He wasn't the player he is today in the first three, but at least give the complete stats dude he shoots 3's and FTs. He missed significant time and a game in his first Finals due to injury as well.


Huh? Take a look over the last two years alone, source? Kobe's been a great closer in close out gaSixmes recently, I find that hard to believe. If not you're just ignoring his other positive series.

Two Bronze medals for the King? Kobe saving USA from silver? Actually LeBron has had pretty awful games in the playoffs as well. 07 Finals, worst 4 game shooting stretch against the Celtics last year. Much worse individual performance than when Kobe got "blown out" in the Finals. The team choked and got blown out, LeBron had individual games worse than that.


You just listed six questionable claims and/or team chokes. You even repeated a few.

Questionable? My ass, Kobe flat out chucked his way out of those games. Excuses these Kobe kids make are hilarious.



LeBron has had several, no doubt... and so has Malone and Wilt. But not more than Kobe. No matter what happens, you can bet your life that if the Lakers win the Kobe Homers will give all the credit to Kobe for carrying his "soft, weak" teammates... even if Kobe himself lays an egg.

On the other hand, if the Lakers lose it'll be everyone's fault (including Phil Jackson) except Kobe.

Some of us will be able to watch the game and assess it objectively, of course.

 

[DaRizzle]

No matter what happens, you can bet your life that if the Lakers win the Kobe Homers will give all the credit to Kobe for carrying his "soft, weak" teammates... even if Kobe himself lays an egg.

On the other hand, if the Lakers lose it'll be everyone's fault (including Phil Jackson) except Kobe.

Some of us will be able to watch the game and assess it objectively, of course.

Um, maybe, just maybe Kobe will be the best player on the court and deserve the majority of the credit...I know, crazy talk

 

[Da_O]

Hmm... do you think that any other player in the NBA right now has had more opportunities to be criticized for "choking" and "disappearing" in big games than Bryant?

He has had those opportunities because he's an excellent player. Of course he's had some good teammates (including Shaq) and a great head coach, but even IF he's choked more than anyone else (and I find that highly doubtful) it's been primarily because of his own greatness.

Ed O.

That's besides the point, I'm not denying that Bryant is a great, great player. If I was, your claim would have some validity.

To me, it's all about success in the playoffs / Finals... and a player doesn't necessarily have to win it all, mind you; however even when his "team" loses, a guy will score points with me IF he consistently takes his game to a higher level when it matters most.

LeBron has had several, shall we say, less than stellar "individual" performances in the playoffs... and after 6 years in the league he's had only moderate-to-good team success.

Regular season accomplishments are the icing on the cake for me... but if the player doesn't have that post season success first and foremost, I don't think he belongs among the all-time elite.

There are a couple exceptions to the rule, of course... guys like Oscar and Wilt were soooo far ahead of their peers that their regular season accomplishments simply canNot be ignored.

 

[Da_O]

Um, maybe, just maybe Kobe will be the best player on the court and deserve the majority of the credit...I know, crazy talk

That's what I'm talking about. When they lose, he's the leader, and the majority of the blame rest upon him. While Kobe homers *ahem will continually blame it on his "weak/soft" teammates.

 

[huevonkiller]

No matter what happens, you can bet your life that if the Lakers win the Kobe Homers will give all the credit to Kobe for carrying his "soft, weak" teammates... even if Kobe himself lays an egg.

On the other hand, if the Lakers lose it'll be everyone's fault (including Phil Jackson) except Kobe.

Some of us will be able to watch the game and assess it objectively, of course.

I can assess Kobe having good if not great series multiple times against the Jazz, Nuggets, Spurs, Blazers, Kings, with a bit of Houston and Phoenix in there; all of which he's pretty much torched. The Western Conference was the decider of the title back then as well. This 40% shooting in the Finals nonsense is just a rhetorical flourish when he constantly shows up against Western 55+ win teams.

Of course they didn't win against the 2006 Suns, but I'm sure it was due to Kobe's choke act in game 6 where he had 50 points or trying to get his teammates going in game 7. He sure lays a lot of eggs that Bryant guy.

 

[DaRizzle]

That's what I'm talking about. When they lose, he's the leader, and the majority of the blame rest upon him. While Kobe homers *ahem will continually blame it on his "weak/soft" teammates.

You will see me giving blame only where it is due oh omnipotent one

 

[huevonkiller]

That's besides the point, I'm not denying that Bryant is a great, great player. If I was, your claim would have some validity.

To me, it's all about success in the playoffs / Finals... and a player doesn't necessarily have to win it all, mind you; however even when his "team" loses, a guy will score points with me IF he consistently takes his game to a higher level when it matters most.

LeBron has had several, shall we say, less than stellar "individual" performances in the playoffs... and after 6 years in the league he's had only moderate-to-good team success.

Regular season accomplishments are the icing on the cake for me... but if the player doesn't have that post season success first and foremost, I don't think he belongs among the all-time elite.

There are a couple exceptions to the rule, of course... guys like Oscar and Wilt were soooo far ahead of their peers that their regular season accomplishments simply canNot be ignored.

That's besides the point, I'm not denying that Bryant is a great, great player. If I was, your claim would have some validity.

To me, it's all about success in the playoffs / Finals... and a player doesn't necessarily have to win it all, mind you; however even when his "team" loses, a guy will score points with me IF he consistently takes his game to a higher level when it matters most.

LeBron has had several, shall we say, less than stellar "individual" performances in the playoffs... and after 6 years in the league he's had only moderate-to-good team success.

Regular season accomplishments are the icing on the cake for me... but if the player doesn't have that post season success first and foremost, I don't think he belongs among the all-time elite.

There are a couple exceptions to the rule, of course... guys like Oscar and Wilt were soooo far ahead of their peers that their regular season accomplishments simply canNot be ignored.

Great.

Questionable? My ass, Kobe flat out chucked his way out of those games. Excuses these Kobe kids make are hilarious.

So how do you get to the Finals without deep playoff success? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. And he has far from "chucked" in all these series you've mentioned.

 

[Ed O]

So how do you get to the Finals without deep playoff success? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. And he has far from "chucked" in all these series you've mentioned.

That was gonna be my first question.

My second one is: compared to whom?

It's easy to say that Kobe has choked, etc., but I wonder which great players have NOT had games and series where they've failed.

I don't think that anyone is saying that Kobe has NOT had failures, but I think that failure is just part of playing the game, and even great players will have off nights and off weeks.

Ed O.

 

[huevonkiller]

That was gonna be my first question.

My second one is: compared to whom?

It's easy to say that Kobe has choked, etc., but I wonder which great players have NOT had games and series where they've failed.

I don't think that anyone is saying that Kobe has NOT had failures, but I think that failure is just part of playing the game, and even great players will have off nights and off weeks.

Ed O.

He's had, 2-4 bad series out of how many? Detroit, missed about two games in Indiana and played with a sprain, then Boston? If anything that's not much of a body of work against him. People will restate last year's Finals in ten different ways to make it seem like a bigger problem.

 

[Da_O]

I can assess Kobe having good if not great series multiple times against the Jazz, Nuggets, Spurs, Blazers, Kings, with a bit of Houston and Phoenix in there; all of which he's pretty much torched. The Western Conference was the decider of the title back then as well. This 40% shooting in the Finals nonsense is just a rhetorical flourish when he constantly shows up against Western 55+ win teams.

Of course they didn't win against the 2006 Suns, but I'm sure it was due to Kobe's choke act in game 6 where he had 50 points or trying to get his teammates going in game 7. He sure lays a lot of eggs that Bryant guy.

Yeah a LOT of eggs, especially in the finals, when it matters most. When you're compared to the GOAT then this is what happens, unfair criticism.

I guess what you're saying is that WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS was no longer beneficial to Lakers after 2002, eh?

Kobe will go down as the greatest sidekick of all-time. Maybe ahead of Pippen.......maybe.

 

[DaRizzle]

Kobe will go down as the greatest sidekick of all-time. Maybe ahead of Pippen, maybe.

Yeah...ok dude. A top 20 (hes higher, but just to prove my point) player is a "sidekick"...your just trying to get a rise out of us, or you have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Wheels]

Kobe will go down as the greatest sidekick of all-time. Maybe ahead of Pippen, maybe.

You really think that given the opportunity GM's would take Pip over Kobe?

 

[huevonkiller]

Yeah a LOT of eggs, especially in the finals, when it matters most. When you're compared to the GOAT then this is what happens, unfair criticism.

I guess what you're saying is that WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS was no longer beneficial to Lakers after 2002, eh?

Kobe will go down as the greatest sidekick of all-time. Maybe ahead of Pippen, maybe.

Ok...

Except you just contradicted yourself and said playoff success should be enough of a barometer. Even without titles, which Kobe has regardless.

- 36% shooting in 6 of his 9 playoff series close-out games as a starter

You do know this isn't even true right?

- Completely disappeared in 4th Quarter of Game 1 in 08 Finals
- Laid a huge egg in Game 4 of 08 Finals
- Laid a huge egg in Game 6 of 08 Finals
- Worst team loss in Finals History (close-out Game 6 / 08 Finals)
- 36% shooting in 6 of his 9 playoff series close-out games as a start

First, if you go by individual games that isn't the route you want to take... You cherry picked a handful out of almost a 1000, lol. Relative to the "team choke", Kobe was not that bad. You ignored the 3 games he played well in the FINALS, against the Celtics as well.

 

[Da_O]

Ok...

Except you just contradicted yourself and said playoff success should be enough of a barometer. Even without titles, which Kobe has regardless.



You do know this isn't even true right?


First, if you go by individual games that isn't the route you want to take... You cherry picked a handful out of almost a 1000, lol. Relative to the "team choke", Kobe was not that bad. You ignored the 3 games he played well in the FINALS, against the Celtics as well.

Never once did I say that or contradict myself. I cherrypicked two playoff series(Spurs and Suns) and the rest were finals series.

Secondly I didn't ignore them at all, I know of them but I looked at the series as a whole where he iced his teammates out and pulled an epic choke job.

 

[Da_O]

Yeah...ok dude. A top 20 (hes higher, but just to prove my point) player is a "sidekick"...your just trying to get a rise out of us, or you have no idea what you are talking about

I agree in the 15-20 range, but that doesn't mean he isn't the greatest sidekick ever. Sidekick to Shaq and now sidekick to Gasol.

Shaq was clearly (and withOut question) the best, most valuable and most dominating Laker during the 3-Peat.

The only folks who believe otherwise are blind, delusional Kobe Homers who would sacrifice their right arm IF they could re-write history to suggest that Kobe was more than just a very valuable #2 man.

 

[Minstrel]

I agree in the 15-20 range, but that doesn't mean he isn't the greatest sidekick ever. Sidekick to Shaq and now sidekick to Gasol.

Shaq was clearly (and withOut question) the best, most valuable and most dominating Laker during the 3-Peat.

The only folks who believe otherwise are blind, delusional Kobe Homers who would sacrifice their right arm IF they could re-write history to suggest that Kobe was more than just a very valuable #2 man.

And Kobe is clearly (and without question) the best, most valuable and most dominating player on the current Lakers team.

The only folks who believe otherwise are blind, delusional Kobe Haters who would sacrifice their right arm IF they could re-write reality to suggest Kobe was less than a very valuable #1 man.

 

[Da_O]

And Kobe is clearly (and without question) the best, most valuable and most dominating player on the current Lakers team.

The only folks who believe otherwise are blind, delusional Kobe Haters who would sacrifice their right arm IF they could re-write reality to suggest Kobe was less than the very valuable #1 man.

*yawn

I expected better from you Minstrel, really lacking in the creativity department. No need for personal attacks, simple-mind.

Kobe was ONCE the best, most valuable player on his team. That was before the Gasol trade and Kobe's decline. Gasol, since being traded to the Lakers, has taken them to not one but TWO FINALS! It seems to me that when Kobe has a big man that demands attention away from him then he flourishes.

Yup greatest sidekick ever.

 

[Wheels]

I agree in the 15-20 range, but that doesn't mean he isn't the greatest sidekick ever. Sidekick to Shaq and now sidekick to Gasol.

Shaq was clearly (and withOut question) the best, most valuable and most dominating Laker during the 3-Peat.

The only folks who believe otherwise are blind, delusional Kobe Homers who would sacrifice their right arm IF they could re-write history to suggest that Kobe was more than just a very valuable #2 man.

I laughed so loud I scared my client in front of me.. way to blow my cover.

 

[huevonkiller]

Never once did I say that or contradict myself. I cherrypicked two playoff series(Spurs and Suns) and the rest were finals series.

Yes but why? He played well in all of them.

Secondly I didn't ignore them at all, I know of them but I looked at the series as a whole where he iced his teammates out and pulled an epic choke job.

First let me make this clear, 2003-2004 was his worst year in the regular season... He didn't even practice as much throughout the year, nor could. Even so it is one series he failed in at his career low. I don't think that Kobe could get to the Finals this year. Magic lost four Finals. Kobe got injured in another Finals...

The Boston series was a sub-par series for him, epic choke by the team. Although the season overall was an amazing success because Kobe's clutchness was shown quite often throughout the playoffs. MJ never won anything without Scottie, what Bryant is doing with Pau would be unprecedented as well. Magic never won without Kareem. Pau is nice but neither of those two.

When people say Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Sasha, are soft and cost them a few series... Well what do you think? That's not even debatable.

 

[Da_O]

Yes but why? He played well in all of them.

You're clearly missing my point/agenda.

 

[huevonkiller]

I laughed so loud I scared my client in front of me.. way to blow my cover.

Lol me too.

/discussion.


There's nothing more to say after reading that. Sidekick to Pau?

 

[huevonkiller]

You're clearly missing my point/agenda.

Oh no I definitely see it, Kobe is getting carried by Pau Gasol obviously.

 

[Minstrel]

*yawn

I expected better from you Minstrel, really lacking in the creativity department. No need for personal attacks, simple-mind.

So you're saying you were using personal attacks? I only echoed your words.

It wasn't creative, it was showing you how hypocritical you are. You use the popular consensus (and what the stats show) when they support Shaq over Kobe, and ignore them when they support Kobe over Gasol.

Gasol, since being traded to the Lakers, has taken them to not one but TWO FINALS!

Awful argument. Pippen, since joining the Bulls, took them to not one, not two, but SIX CHAMPIONSHIPS. Clearly, Jordan was the sidekick.

 

[DaRizzle]

Sidekick to Pau...Im losing braincells reading this propoganda.

Da O....please save face while you still can. Maybe everybody will forget these idiotic comments of yours if you just stop now