I Need To Stop Trying To Help Y'all Gain Perspective

[blue32]

He had his hands up.

He had no weapon.

The police had tasers.

You aren't making a compelling case in the least.

I don't need to make a case. You can believe what you want. But the facts will speak for themselves, and we'll see if he was high on PCP and other people will decide if he was reaching for something.

 

[Denny Crane]

Trump on TV saying the officer choked. He is troubled. He has no clue what the officer could have been thinking. It was terrible.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't need to make a case. You can believe what you want. But the facts will speak for themselves, and we'll see if he was high on PCP and other people will decide if he was reaching for something.

The facts don't speak for themselves.

If the cop gets off, she got away with murdering an unarmed man.

That's too often the case, or the BLM movement wouldn't exist.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/20/opinions/terence-crutcher-shooting-holloway/

Under the Graham holding, the ultimate question is whether a hypothetical reasonable officer under the same or similar circumstances would have done the same thing. Here we have multiple other officers who were actually there who did NOT shoot Crutcher. That's a good sign that there was at least an error in judgment by the officer who did shoot.

 

[jlprk]

you make no sense.

Review: http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/161.239

for example.

Wow. That says that a policeman can murder you, no matter what your conduct is (you can already be in handcuffs, obeying orders) if he thinks you committed a certain crime:

(b) The crime committed by the person was kidnapping, arson, escape in the first degree, burglary in the first degree or any attempt to commit such a crime

We live in a police state.

 

[blue32]

The facts don't speak for themselves.

If the cop gets off, she got away with murdering an unarmed man.

That's too often the case, or the BLM movement wouldn't exist.

Facts ALWAYS speak for themselves. It doesn't matter if you are unarmed, you are perceived a threat when disobeying orders and reaching for shit. Go to a citizens academy for fucks sake. They will tell you how they are trained.

If you don't like the training, contact your local representatives to get the laws changed.

 

[blue32]

Wow. That says that a policeman can murder you, no matter what your conduct is (you can already be in handcuffs, obeying orders) if he thinks you committed a certain crime:



We live in a police state.

Correct, and things will only change when the laws change. Instead of burning, rioting, looting, destroying neighborhoods, these people should be marching at their city halls, and their state capitals to get the laws changed.

 

[Denny Crane]

Facts ALWAYS speak for themselves. It doesn't matter if you are unarmed, you are perceived a threat when disobeying orders and reaching for shit. Go to a citizens academy for fucks sake. They will tell you how they are trained.

If you don't like the training, contact your local representatives to get the laws changed.

Hands up, not running away, no weapon. No threat.

As I just posted, none of the other cops there were threatened enough to fire their guns, and I think at least one and the guy in the helicopter were talking like it's a taser situation at most.

 

[blue32]

Hands up, not running away, no weapon. No threat.

As I just posted, none of the other cops there were threatened enough to fire their guns, and I think at least one and the guy in the helicopter were talking like it's a taser situation at most.

"A good sign" doesn't equate to fact. The other officers may have not seen what the other two officers saw, or were out of position to even fire and just offering support.

A taser situation doesn't always work. Specially with people on PCP. I am not sure why you don't understand that.

IF this guy was high on PCP and reaching for something then the officers will get off since this is all acceptable within procedure and law.

IF this guy was NOT high and NOT reaching, then the officers will face charges.

 

[Denny Crane]

"A good sign" doesn't equate to fact. The other officers may have not seen what the other two officers saw, or were out of position to even fire and just offering support.

A taser situation doesn't always work. Specially with people on PCP. I am not sure why you don't understand that.

IF this guy was high on PCP and reaching for something then the officers will get off since this is all acceptable within procedure and law.

IF this guy was NOT high and NOT reaching, then the officers will face charges.

If the taser didn't work, then the gun might, might, might, be called for. The taser wasn't tried, so you're just guessing and taking the wrong side for the sake of it.

You're proving dviss1 right.

 

[blue32]

If the taser didn't work, then the gun might, might, might, be called for. The taser wasn't tried, so you're just guessing and taking the wrong side for the sake of it.

You're proving dviss1 right.

Was there an article stating it wasn't tried?

And I am not taking the wrong side. I am taking no sides. You guys keep thinking I am all for this. I am only for finding out the truth and not picking up bottles and rocks and throwing it at innocent people, or burning my neighborhoods down, or coming on here and screaming at all the white people on the forum for being white.


Edit: @Denny Crane the stun gun apparently was used:

"Shelby’s attorney, Scott Wood, told the Tulsa World that Shelby opened fire and another officer used a stun gun when Crutcher’s “left hand goes through the car window.”"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/terence...tally-shot-unarmed-oklahoma-man-had-stun-gun/

 

[Denny Crane]

Was there an article stating it wasn't tried?

And I am not taking the wrong side. I am taking no sides. You guys keep thinking I am all for this. I am only for finding out the truth and not picking up bottles and rocks and throwing it at innocent people, or burning my neighborhoods down, or coming on here and screaming at all the white people on the forum for being white.


Edit: @Denny Crane the stun gun apparently was used:

"Shelby’s attorney, Scott Wood, told the Tulsa World that Shelby opened fire and another officer used a stun gun when Crutcher’s “left hand goes through the car window.”"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/terence...tally-shot-unarmed-oklahoma-man-had-stun-gun/

All that shows is the stun gun should have been used. If one officer shoots and the other uses the stun gun, the stun gun isn't going to work as the victim bleeds out in the middle of the road.

From your own link:

Police video from the incident Friday shows Crutcher walking away from the officers and toward his SUV with his hands up when one officer shocks him with a stun gun and he falls to the ground. He is then shot and killed.

(she shot him while he was on the ground, the stun gun did work)

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

He was big and black. Scary big, scary black. He wasn't high on PCP, but that's a convenient claim if you're looking for excuses to excuse this execution.

He wasn't? That's weird, I'm sure I just saw that it might be weeks for the toxicology report.

You have NO credibility on this, you've made up your mind without having any idea what you are talking about.

 

[Denny Crane]

He wasn't? That's weird, I'm sure I just saw that it might be weeks for the toxicology report.

You have NO credibility on this, you've made up your mind without having any idea what you are talking about.

I don't hope someone calls the cops on you saying you're on PCP.

Think about it.

They might shoot you dead for no good reason.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I don't hope someone calls the cops on you saying you're on PCP.

Think about it.

They might shoot you dead for no good reason.

If they find PCP in my car I'll say I bought the car with it in there. They won't find it unless they plant it. Who knows, maybe they planted it in his.

I've almost never defended the cops, don't get it twisted. I haven't made any statement about this other than "we need more info"

You're one of the ones making judgements based on a video. A shitty video at that.

 

[Denny Crane]

If they find PCP in my car I'll say I bought the car with it in there. They won't find it unless they plant it. Who knows, maybe they planted it in his.

I've almost never defended the cops, don't get it twisted. I haven't made any statement about this other than "we need more info"

You're one of the ones making judgements based on a video. A shitty video at that.

The video shows the cops shooting an unarmed man with his hands up. We don't need "more info."

If "having PCP" in your car is justification for being shot by cops, it won't matter what you say.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

The video shows the cops shooting an unarmed man with his hands up. We don't need "more info."

If "having PCP" in your car is justification for being shot by cops, it won't matter what you say.

If the video showed what you think it showed it wouldn't even be an issue. I've seen videos of a cop killing an old black guy by shooting him in the back as he jogs away.

What this video shows is up for debate.

 

[H.C.]

That is a very weird take friend. Do have any answers to the questions I asked?

I do believe I brought up a situation I was in personally to answer your questions. Well minus me being a police officer.
Man was out of his car walking around it, in the middle of the road.
I approached the car and asked if he wanted me to push the car to the parking lot nearby.
He didn't respond, I asked again with hand motions. He looked at me but didn't respond.
It wasn't until a second passerby approached that the man got back in his car and steered it as we pushed.
But in no way did I find this man dangerous, irrational, or anything of the like.
I wonder if the cops who murdered this black man. If they saw this Mexican male I encountered would have murdered him too.
Seems like a very similar situation to me.

But answer to your questions ~
Car broke down - why it's in the middle of the road.
Man doesn't know what to do - why he's walking around his vehicle when I arrived. (I'm not a cop but he didn't know I was coming)
Man doesn't respond to my question(s) - too concerned with what to do than hear people talking to him.

I like how he assumed it was a mexican....

It wasn't an assumption.
I saw him before I got out of my vehicle.
He was very brown and short. Not to mention when I got out of the vehicle and approached he was muttering in Spanish.
I guess it's something you learn when you grow up in Hillsboro and around mainly Mexicans.
Most certainly wasn't white or black or from the middle east.
But I found nothing he was doing dangerous.
Please don't put words in my mouth because I use the term Mexican to define a Mexican man.
I'd use black or white to define them as well. It's not derogatory.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

You do know there are other latin american countries other than Mexico? Most of them speak Spanish too. Many of the people are "brown and short". Some not, but many are.

 

[julius]

disregard this post. the quoted post isn't linked in it and I don't feel like back tracking and finding it again.

 

[blue32]

All that shows is the stun gun should have been used. If one officer shoots and the other uses the stun gun, the stun gun isn't going to work as the victim bleeds out in the middle of the road.

From your own link:

Police video from the incident Friday shows Crutcher walking away from the officers and toward his SUV with his hands up when one officer shocks him with a stun gun and he falls to the ground. He is then shot and killed.

(she shot him while he was on the ground, the stun gun did work)

You don't know if he was still reaching for a gun in his pocket, and neither do the police (if that happened). Again we shall see when the facts present themselves. Until then, put your molotov cocktail down.

 

[Denny Crane]

If the video showed what you think it showed it wouldn't even be an issue. I've seen videos of a cop killing an old black guy by shooting him in the back as he jogs away.

What this video shows is up for debate.

It does show what I said it does. It is not up for debate. Even more camera angles show the windows on the car doors were up. It's getting worse and worse for your side in this.

 

[e_blazer]

All that shows is the stun gun should have been used. If one officer shoots and the other uses the stun gun, the stun gun isn't going to work as the victim bleeds out in the middle of the road.

From your own link:

Police video from the incident Friday shows Crutcher walking away from the officers and toward his SUV with his hands up when one officer shocks him with a stun gun and he falls to the ground. He is then shot and killed.

(she shot him while he was on the ground, the stun gun did work)

“This guy is still walking and following commands.”

That quote as given makes no sense. The guy can't be still walking away from the officer and following commands. Go back and listen to the audio on the video. It sounds like he makes a contraction of "and" and "not", which is consistent with the conversation that the guy ought to be tased and the facts that he's walking away from the officers.

She didn't shoot the guy while he was on the ground. The reports say the taser and pistol were deployed at almost exactly the same time. The video certainly doesn't show that he was shot while he was on the ground.

The answer to your comment about why one officer resorted to shooting when the other used a taser seems pretty obvious from the video: the male police officer was holding his taser and she was holding her pistol. For the moment giving the cops the benefit of the doubt that they both saw the suspect make a move that they perceived as threatening, discharging the weapons that they had in hand would make sense. If you think someone is going for a gun, you're not going to holster your pistol and draw your taser.

All of that said, I'm having a real hard time buying the cops' version of events that they thought he was reaching into the car for a gun. The enhanced picture of the window on the car sure looks to me like it was closed. Unless there's more evidence to the contrary, my take is that the female officer should have waited to see the effect of the taser before she took any other action. If the guy was high on PCP, it may not have subdued him, but you'd certainly want to wait to see whether it did or not before escalating things to firing a gun at him.

 

[Denny Crane]

“This guy is still walking and following commands.”

That quote as given makes no sense. The guy can't be still walking away from the officer and following commands. Go back and listen to the audio on the video. It sounds like he makes a contraction of "and" and "not", which is consistent with the conversation that the guy ought to be tased and the facts that he's walking away from the officers.

She didn't shoot the guy while he was on the ground. The reports say the taser and pistol were deployed at almost exactly the same time. The video certainly doesn't show that he was shot while he was on the ground.

The answer to your comment about why one officer resorted to shooting when the other used a taser seems pretty obvious from the video: the male police officer was holding his taser and she was holding her pistol. For the moment giving the cops the benefit of the doubt that they both saw the suspect make a move that they perceived as threatening, discharging the weapons that they had in hand would make sense. If you think someone is going for a gun, you're not going to holster your pistol and draw your taser.

All of that said, I'm having a real hard time buying the cops' version of events that they thought he was reaching into the car for a gun. The enhanced picture of the window on the car sure looks to me like it was closed. Unless there's more evidence to the contrary, my take is that the female officer should have waited to see the effect of the taser before she took any other action. If the guy was high on PCP, it may not have subdued him, but you'd certainly want to wait to see whether it did or not before escalating things to firing a gun at him.

From blue32's link above:

Police video from the incident Friday shows Crutcher walking away from the officers and toward his SUV with his hands up when one officer shocks him with a stun gun and he falls to the ground. He is then shot and killed.

That begs the question of if the stun gun worked. It apparently did.

 

[julius]

Even if the guy was high on PCP, shooting him wasn't the answer.

The guy in North Carolina who was shot recently, (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/keith-scott-charlotte-police-shooting.html), they say he had a gun.

Some say he didn't.

Pointing a gun, or having a gun, doesn't always lead to death, it just seems to be more likely if you're black that you get shot.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liber...ns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed

http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/07/11/texas-white-man-just-got-shootout-cops-guess-ended/

Sometimes the circumstances are different (stopped in your car vs in your home, etc), but the results are consistent.

For whatever reason, someone who is black stands a much higher chance of being shot.

And I notice that many people who are defending the cops (not necessarily on here) saying they were justified, are the same people who defend it when a white person (with a gun) has their gun out and shouldn't be shot, since it's their 1st amendment right.

There's a problem happening, and maybe instead of sticking our heads in the sand (condoning it), we should actually look at it and make changes.

 

[e_blazer]

From blue32's link above:

Police video from the incident Friday shows Crutcher walking away from the officers and toward his SUV with his hands up when one officer shocks him with a stun gun and he falls to the ground. He is then shot and killed.

That begs the question of if the stun gun worked. It apparently did.

The official police report was:

“As [the officers] got closer to the vehicle, [Crutcher] reached inside the vehicle and at that time there was a Taser deployment and a short time later there was one shot fired,”

The video looks to me like he's tased first, starts to fall, and is shot on the way down. It certainly doesn't show him lying on the ground and then the cop firing her gun at him. I agree she shouldn't have shot him until the effects of him being tased were known and then, only if he was still making threatening moves. I just don't see any justification for her discharging her weapon at the time that she did. But then, it's easy for me to make that judgment from the safety of my keyboard.

 

[Denny Crane]

The official police report was:

“As [the officers] got closer to the vehicle, [Crutcher] reached inside the vehicle and at that time there was a Taser deployment and a short time later there was one shot fired,”

The video looks to me like he's tased first, starts to fall, and is shot on the way down. It certainly doesn't show him lying on the ground and then the cop firing her gun at him. I agree she shouldn't have shot him until the effects of him being tased were known and then, only if he was still making threatening moves. I just don't see any justification for her discharging her weapon at the time that she did. But then, it's easy for me to make that judgment from the safety of my keyboard.

The video also shows the car window was up. He couldn't possibly be reaching into the car.

An enlarged photo of police footage taken after the shooting appears to show Mr Crutcher's SUV window was closed and streaked with blood after the shooting (AP)

 

[blue32]

The video also shows the car window was up. He couldn't possibly be reaching into the car.

An enlarged photo of police footage taken after the shooting appears to show Mr Crutcher's SUV window was closed and streaked with blood after the shooting (AP)

Wow are we finally letting facts play out now? Good! Now let's wait and see what happens before burn down our neighborhoods and riot.

 

[e_blazer]

The video also shows the car window was up. He couldn't possibly be reaching into the car.

An enlarged photo of police footage taken after the shooting appears to show Mr Crutcher's SUV window was closed and streaked with blood after the shooting (AP)

I already noted that I'd seen this and that it sure looks to me like it's closed, which doesn't square with the police version of events. Based on what I've seen so far, this shooting stinks.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Women shouldnt be in charge of anything. Can you imagine hillary with nuke buttons and on her period. Putin says her dress makes her look fat next thing you know nuclear fallout.

Are you really making a PMS joke about a 68 year old woman?