I really don't get the Blake hate.

[RISE WITH IT]

I don't care if Nate starts Blake or Miller. I don't think either of them are that good, but they are serviceable. We just need to get a proper lineup and rotation set, because there is no chemistry on offense. The team used to get away with bad offense because Brandon would bail them out, but now he can't do that and the team is constantly fighting the shot clock with the ball in the hands of Miller and Blake.

 

[Nate Dogg]

Dude, you're barking up the wrong tree. We're winning and Miller is playing well. You could at least go after Martell.

No shit. Martell has been playing more SHITTY lately than Blake has.

 

[MickZagger]

No matter the record, good or bad, every year people flock to the newest scapegoat.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Blake was +2 for the game. Every other starter was a negative, topped by Miller at -9.

Webster was +3 in Atlanta--anyone gonna say he had a good game?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I like Steve Blake a lot. I just don't like him in the role of #1 PG. He's a top-tier backup PG forced into a starter's role. But I don't blame Blake for that.

And while Blake did hit the 3 that broke Detroit's back, did you forgot he turned the ball over the previous play that led to easy points for Detroit. If he doesn't turn that ball over, we don't need the 3. I guess you might call that selective memory.

 

[BenDavis503]

Good to see some rational posts in this thread.

Unlike yours. This is the final straw for me. Your inability to control your disorder has made you one of the most annoying posters on the forum.

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[LameR]

Interesting topic mr. jump to conclusions.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think a lot of the Blake hate stems from things he has no control over.

I think most people would like it if Blake was played like the role player he is, and not 30+ minutes a night. That's not his fault, but people still get frustrated with it. I think the fact that the Mike's (Barrett in particular) go out of their way to praise Blake when he does something good, but never criticize him for all of the bad things he does, rubs some people the wrong way. I think a lot of people view NBA basketball as an entertainment, and Blake is absolutely not entertaining to watch. Again, this is not his fault, it's his skill set and comfort level.

 

[EWT]

He misses a couple big shots on the road in the 5th game in 7 nights and we lose a game to the hottest team in the league. While the rest of you bitch and moan, Blake goes to the gym and spend HOURS working on his shot. Come tonight, he gets out there, scores 17 points on 5-10 shooting, including the shot that broke Detroit's back, but all anyone can talk about is his three turnovers, ignoring the fact that he averages only 1.5 turnovers a game so far this season. It's ridiculous.

It's simple, most of the people are idiots

 

[magnifier661]

It's not that people hate Blake. I really like the guy as a role player on this team. I would much rather give Rudy 25+ minutes than Blake. And for the people saying they want Rudy being the spark off the bench, why not have blake and Bayless be the spark off the bench? The more Rudy plays larger minutes, the better his game and comfort level will be.

There is nothing wrong with Blake the PG that can hit open shots. There is something wrong with Blake the SG.

 

[LittleAlex]

I think a lot of the Blake hate stems from things he has no control over.

I think most people would like it if Blake was played like the role player he is, and not 30+ minutes a night. That's not his fault, but people still get frustrated with it. I think the fact that the Mike's (Barrett in particular) go out of their way to praise Blake when he does something good, but never criticize him for all of the bad things he does, rubs some people the wrong way. I think a lot of people view NBA basketball as an entertainment, and Blake is absolutely not entertaining to watch. Again, this is not his fault, it's his skill set and comfort level.

This probably has something to do with it.

Then again I believe Portland's obsession with officiating is in part due to Mike and Mike constantly (and I mean constantly) talking about calls.

I listen to other announcers and don't hear about the refs more then a couple of time.

Rice talks about the constantly.

Anyway, the reason Blake is hated is that his contributions to the team are hard to quantify. Further it doesn't appear that he does anything that another guy on the team doesn't do better.

And I also agree with the scapegoat theory. I know I am guilty of that year after year.

Juan Dixon, Stacy Augman, Robert Pack, Harvey Grant, Jamal Magloire, Darius Miles, etc.. have all been my official "Least Favorite Blazer of the Year". This year it's sort of a dead heat between Blake and Webster.

For my own sanity I am going to have to go with Webster from here on out. Blake is going to play big minutes every game. It's better to hope he can do well then wish he wasn't playing.

Really, only one of those options is possible. And him getting benched isn't one of them.

 

[PapaG]

This probably has something to do with it.

Then again I believe Portland's obsession with officiating is in part due to Mike and Mike constantly (and I mean constantly) talking about calls.

I listen to other announcers and don't hear about the refs more then a couple of time.

Rice talks about the constantly.

Anyway, the reason Blake is hated is that his contributions to the team are hard to quantify. Further it doesn't appear that he does anything that another guy on the team doesn't do better.

And I also agree with the scapegoat theory. I know I am guilty of that year after year.

Juan Dixon, Stacy Augman, Robert Pack, Harvey Grant, Jamal Magloire, Darius Miles, etc.. have all been my official "Least Favorite Blazer of the Year". This year it's sort of a dead heat between Blake and Webster.

For my own sanity I am going to have to go with Webster from here on out. Blake is going to play big minutes every game. It's better to hope he can do well then wish he wasn't playing.

Really, only one of those options is possible. And him getting benched isn't one of them.

That's an interesting list. Outside of Miles, all were role players who had limited games. As for Miles, I admit that by the end I couldn't stand the guy, but it was due more to his seeming to not care about getting back on the court, because he actually had a decent all-around game that he could have improved. The excessive "hate" posts/threads for limited role players (Outlaw, Blake immediately come to mind) makes it apparent to me that a lot of fans here a wasting far too much energy on players who simply won't become the player that that they wish them to be. That being the case, I guess I'm just wired differently than others. I don't see how obsessing over a limited role player does much, which is why, I guess, I tend to expect more from the Odens and Millers - more rounded players (Oden potentially) who could actually play key primary roles on on NBA champion.

 

[magnifier661]

That's an interesting list. Outside of Miles, all were role players who had limited games. As for Miles, I admit that by the end I couldn't stand the guy, but it was due more to his seeming to not care about getting back on the court, because he actually had a decent all-around game that he could have improved. The excessive "hate" posts/threads for limited role players (Outlaw, Blake immediately come to mind) makes it apparent to me that a lot of fans here a wasting far too much energy on players who simply won't become the player that that they wish them to be. That being the case, I guess I'm just wired differently than others. I don't see how obsessing over a limited role player does much, which is why, I guess, I tend to expect more from the Odens and Millers - more rounded players (Oden potentially) who could actually play key primary roles on on NBA champion.

My so called "hate" for Blake isn't because of Blake. I think Fernandez is definitely a player that could be a star if used properly. I think Blake is taking a lot of his minutes away from him.

 

[PapaG]

My so called "hate" for Blake isn't because of Blake. I think Fernandez is definitely a player that could be a star if used properly. I think Blake is taking a lot of his minutes away from him.

Great. I'm not sure how that is Blake's fault, though. Should he go to Nate and demand to be benched? Especially after finally having a decent game from 3 pt last night?

 

[yakbladder]

It's not that people hate Blake. I really like the guy as a role player on this team. I would much rather give Rudy 25+ minutes than Blake. And for the people saying they want Rudy being the spark off the bench, why not have blake and Bayless be the spark off the bench? The more Rudy plays larger minutes, the better his game and comfort level will be.

There is nothing wrong with Blake the PG that can hit open shots. There is something wrong with Blake the SG.

So everyone criticizes Blake for being in a horrible shooting slump this year, yet you want to pair him with Bayless, who though he has shown flashes of brilliance this season is still far from a reliable, consistent player. You want to make those two our primary offensive weapons off the bench?!?! And teamed with Pryz?!?!

There's nothing wrong with having a Manu as the sixth man off the bench. Except that it's Manu. Hence we got Rudy. Who is not Manu.

 

[RoyToy]

There's Blake hate because a lot of people feel he holds the team back too much at times, and just feel this team won't win a championship with Blake averaging close to 30 minutes.

 

[magnifier661]

So everyone criticizes Blake for being in a horrible shooting slump this year, yet you want to pair him with Bayless, who though he has shown flashes of brilliance this season is still far from a reliable, consistent player. You want to make those two our primary offensive weapons off the bench?!?! And teamed with Pryz?!?!

There's nothing wrong with having a Manu as the sixth man off the bench. Except that it's Manu. Hence we got Rudy. Who is not Manu.

Um, I explained this on another post. A good coach won't have the entire bench sub in for the starters. You would still have Aldridge, Oden or Roy on the floor for 98% of the game. So no, they wouldn't be the #1 or #2 options when they are on the floor.

 

[MARIS61]

He's the point guard. He SHOULD dominate the ball. Roy is the shooting guard (small forward now). He SHOULDN'T dominate the ball. Miller put up 11 assists tonight and 2 turnovers. He took only 7 shots.

Good point guards distribute the ball, not dominate the ball.

On the best teams, nobody dominates the ball.

They move it around and have balanced scoring.

And if a team is so weak it has to depend on 1 player dominating the ball, Roy is a far better choice than mediocre Miller.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Unlike yours. This is the final straw for me. Your inability to control your disorder has made you one of the most annoying posters on the forum.

Welcome to my ignore list.

I thought you were trying not to be a dick?

 

[MARIS61]

Um, I explained this on another post. A good coach won't have the entire bench sub in for the starters. You would still have Aldridge, Oden or Roy on the floor for 98% of the game. So no, they wouldn't be the #1 or #2 options when they are on the floor.

Many a "good coach" would argue that point with you.

On teams deep enough that they must play 10 players, platoon subbing is the preferred, and most effective method in many cases. Players get in rhythm better if they play the same lineups all the time and practice that way. The second unit can instantly change the flow of the game with the different style. It's like forcing your opponent to play against 2 teams. Of course, both your team must be good for it to work.

If you are only 8 deep, then obviously it's not an option.

 

[magnifier661]

Many a "good coach" would argue that point with you.

On teams deep enough that they must play 10 players, platoon subbing is the preferred, and most effective method in many cases. Players get in rhythm better if they play the same lineups all the time and practice that way. The second unit can instantly change the flow of the game with the different style. It's like forcing your opponent to play against 2 teams. Of course, both your team must be good for it to work.

If you are only 8 deep, then obviously it's not an option.

Well I disagree, but using this philosophy, Nate isn't doing a great job then. Even with Batum and Outlaw's injury, we are still 11 deep (Roy, LMA, Oden, Pryzbilla, Blake, Rudy, Webster, Bayless, Miller, Howard), which Nate should spread out the minutes so far.

Look at Player Statistics and MP

Blake is the third highest minutes played average. THIRD HIGHEST?!?!?! WTF?!?!

If, in fact, Nate should spread the minutes out more, wouldn't you agree that Blake should be in the middle of minutes played? I think so.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Well I disagree, but using this philosophy, Nate isn't doing a great job then. Even with Batum and Outlaw's injury, we are still 11 deep (Roy, LMA, Oden, Pryzbilla, Blake, Rudy, Webster, Bayless, Miller, Howard), which Nate should spread out the minutes so far.

Look at Player Statistics and MP

Blake is the third highest minutes played average. THIRD HIGHEST?!?!?! WTF?!?!

If, in fact, Nate should spread the minutes out more, wouldn't you agree that Blake should be in the middle of minutes played? I think so.

Nate shouldn't be concerned about spreading out minutes (especially when you add Howard in that mix) . . . he should be concerned about winning games.

 

[magnifier661]

Nate shouldn't be concerned about spreading out minutes (especially when you add Howard in that mix) . . . he should be concerned about winning games.

Yeah I disagree with that philosophy brother. Just using his argument to justify mine.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Blake was +2 for the game. Every other starter was a negative, topped by Miller at -9.

Please stop misusing this stat to prop up your argument. +/- is completely useless for evaluating a single player's performance in a single game. There are 9 other players on the court that contribute to an individual player's +/-. If he's on the court when his own teammates arent playing defense, or can't hit a shot, or an opponent he's not guard suddenly gets a hot hand a player will have a big minus through no fault of his own.

There are too many other variables involved to use this stat for single player, single game analysis. You probably already knew that, but when a single game data point validates your position, it's hard to resist.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't hate Steve Blake. I actually admire how he has managed to carve out a career as an NBA point guard in spite of limited physical gifts compared to the average NBA player. He is where he is thanks to a whole lot of hard work, dedication and love for the game of basketball. I respect that.

However, his performance this year has been very underwhelming and a huge drop off from last season.

Here's a list of our top nine players (by minutes played), sorted by PER (decending order):

Brandon Roy       20.0 
Greg Oden         19.1
LaMarcus Aldridge 17.7
Rudy Fernandez    15.8
Travis Outlaw     15.1
Andre Miller      14.3 
Martell Webster   12.2
Joel Przybilla    11.6
Steve Blake        9.5

Clearly Blake is not producing at a rate that would justify his minutes. PER is largely an offensive stat, but it's not like Blake is a lock down defender. Give his poor production, and his underwhelming defense, it's really hard to justify the fact that he's 3rd on the team in minutes played. Why, exactly is our 9th best player starting and getting to play significantly more minutes than guys who are clearly out producing him?

And that doesn't even include Bayless who has a PER of 20.2 in very limited minutes. Quite frankly, Blake starting and playing big minutes is holding this team back. He's the weakest player in our starting line-up, by far, and weakest link in our rotation. He needs to move to the bench. I'd rather see, Rudy, Bayless or Martell starting in his place. They all give us better offensive production and better defense than Blake.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

Here's a list of our top nine players (by minutes played), sorted by PER (decending order):

Brandon Roy       20.0 
Greg Oden         19.1
LaMarcus Aldridge 17.7
Rudy Fernandez    15.8
Travis Outlaw     15.1
Andre Miller      14.3 
Martell Webster   12.2
Joel Przybilla    11.6
Steve Blake        9.5

Clearly Blake is not producing at a rate that would justify his minutes.

And boy think about how hard this forum is about Webster, who is almost 3 points per higher. Fernandez is the 4th best in offensive efficiency, which clearly tells us, he should be playing more minutes than Blake.

Hell with the starter hoopla. Give the minutes to the players that deserve it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I don't hate Steve Blake. I actually admire how he has managed to carve out a career as an NBA point guard in spite of limited physical gifts compared to the average NBA player. He is where he is thanks to a whole lot of hard work, dedication and love for the game of basketball. I respect that.

However, his performance this year has been very underwhelming and a huge drop off from last season.

Here's a list of our top nine players (by minutes played), sorted by PER (decending order):

Brandon Roy       20.0 
Greg Oden         19.1
LaMarcus Aldridge 17.7
Rudy Fernandez    15.8
Travis Outlaw     15.1
Andre Miller      14.3 
Martell Webster   12.2
Joel Przybilla    11.6
Steve Blake        9.5

Clearly Blake is not producing at a rate that would justify his minutes. PER is largely an offensive stat, but it's not like Blake is a lock down defender. Give his poor production, and his underwhelming defense, it's really hard to justify the fact that he's 3rd on the team in minutes played. Why, exactly is our 9th best player starting and getting to play significantly more minutes than guys who are clearly out producing him?

And that doesn't even include Bayless who has a PER of 20.2 in very limited minutes. Quite frankly, Blake starting and playing big minutes is holding this team back. He's the weakest player in our starting line-up, by far, and weakest link in our rotation. He needs to move to the bench. I'd rather see, Rudy, Bayless or Martell starting in his place. They all give us better offensive production and better defense than Blake.

BNM

If this team was about offense, I get this. But this team's success has been their defense and I think you are underating Blake's defense.

Also it looks like Roy has the highest PER and ironically enough he enjoys playing and is more effective with Blake on the floor, IMO.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

And boy think about how hard this forum is about Webster, who is almost 3 points per higher. Fernandez is the 4th best in offensive efficiency, which clearly tells us, he should be playing more minutes than Blake.

Hell with the starter hoopla. Give the minutes to the players that deserve it.

Who is that . . . Webster and Useless?

 

[PapaG]

Please stop misusing this stat to prop up your argument. +/- is completely useless for evaluating a single player's performance in a single game. There are 9 other players on the court that contribute to an individual player's +/-. If he's on the court when his own teammates arent playing defense, or can't hit a shot, or an opponent he's not guard suddenly gets a hot hand a player will have a big minus through no fault of his own.

There are too many other variables involved to use this stat for single player, single game analysis. You probably already knew that, but when a single game data point validates your position, it's hard to resist.

BNM

When a player is being scapegoated for costing the team a game, yet is the only starter who was a plus on the court in terms of net differential, then it is not a "useless" stat. It's useless to you since it contradicts your flimsy claim, but to call it "useless" in general is merely your opinion.

In other words, please stop telling me how I am "misusing" this stat, because I'm with it exactly what you are doing with it, just leading to a different outcome.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If this team was about offense, I get this. But this team's success has been their defense and I think you are underating Blake's defense.

Also it looks like Roy has the highest PER and ironically enough he enjoys playing and is more effective with Blake on the floor, IMO.

You honestly think a line-up of Miller, Blake and Roy is better defensively than Miller, Roy and Webster?

I don't, and it's not even close. I'd even take Rudy's defense over Blake's. They both get burnerd, but for different reasons - Rudy gambles a lot (pays off sometimes - high risk, high reward), Blake simply can't stay in front of quicker players and isn't strong enough to guard most SGs.

Having Blake in the starting line-up makes us undersized at two positions (SG and SF). Webster gives us more size/strength at SF and allows Roy to move back to his natural SG position where he isn't physically over matched.

BNM