OT I was just almost beaten up and arrested at Walmart

[Jade Falcon]

Also, something occurred to me after I wrote that. Security should ALWAYS be marked as such, and ALL security personnel are REQUIRED by law to be licensed with the Oregon Department of Safety, Standards, and Training (DPSST), or whichever State they are in (Washington is issued through a separate bureau of the Department Of Licensing). They are also REQUIRED to always have their license (can also be a temporary-issued card, or paperwork) with them when they are working, and there are NO exceptions to that.

You can always request that they show you their DPSST card, or "Guard Card". That is their license. It should look something like this:



Now, I haven't worked security since 2007, but I imagine that the license hasn't changed much, if any. It should be as it is shown: a white card with the green State seal background, and their PSID, which is their State-issued Security License ID number, should be a 5-digit number. If they are licensed unarmed, it will just say "unarmed". If they are licensed "Armed/Unarmed", then it will say as such.

I covered over my name and ID number, but that is where it should be; their full name and middle-initial included.

Now, this is important: if they are a contracted security company, such as Allied-Barton, First Response, Olympic, Knighthawk, etc etc, then they should also have their company-issued ID with them as well.

If they DO NOT have either one of these cards, I would be VERY weary of them; especially if they do not have their state-issued license. If they are in uniform without either a temporary license or full-issued license, then they are in violation of the law, and you need to contact the police or state and report them.

And if they are without either one, contact their company immediately and report them. I can all but promise you that they will most likely be fired. If it's one thing a security company does not like, it's a black eye from an non-compliant officer/guard.

If they claim to have them but refuse to show them, then I would also be weary of them. They likely are just being defensive, but if they're upstanding and honest guards/officers, then it should not be a problem.

And this applies to sworn police officers as well; though their credentials are a little different, they are nevertheless licensed by the State through DPSST.

So.....the next time you're confronted by someone claiming to be security, there's some peace of mind for you to work with.

 

[stampedehero]

Sly After all that the two of you should have walked out and never bought a thing. Corporate ought to know. The entire Walmart system is interconnected and these incidents are on video surveillance. I have seen oddballs in Walmart but the employees are usually not a part of that troupe.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i understand not going ham with the wifey there, i guess if it were me? i would go back there today with as many friends as you can scrounge up, and stream video of the agro dude that was super freaked about the pictures.

sounds fun!

 

[jonnyboy]

Damn, what a story. Seems like the white trash biker security douche was afraid to do something about the domestic issue initially, then once the man/woman white trash combo left the store he decided to grow a pair of nuts and take his anger out on you. What a fucking idiot, all of them. You need to get ahold of corporate and get all these fucks fired! Completely ridiculous and uncalled for for them to theaten/intimidate a concerned customer. They need to find work elsewhere, apparently walmart is not trashy enough for them.

 

[riverman]

Non of this would have happened if you'd remembered to bring an assault weapon! Seriously...sorry that happened to you folks Sly...those hangovers take days to go away...stress sucks...but I always wondered who takes pictures of a woman getting beat up without stepping in...now I know!!!! (just kidding bro but you should definitely expose these Walmart idiots to the proper channels...I hope they all lose their jobs soon.

 

[Sedatedfork]

You should stay away from 82nd. Last time you tried to find a Pokemon there and found a hooker.

Edit: Link

 

[Sedatedfork]

i understand not going ham with the wifey there, i guess if it were me? i would go back there today with as many friends as you can scrounge up, and stream video of the agro dude that was super freaked about the pictures.

sounds fun!

Next official meet and greet?

 

[Sedatedfork]

Here is a crazy thought. That aggressive Walmart worker was probably Ben Davis.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Firstly, let me say that I'm glad that you are okay.



This. I will go into more detail below.



Yes, you need to handle this with the police as soon as you can. Be calm, give as much detail as you can, and if you have to, sit down with a pad and paper first and think it over while you write it out. Try not to make up details; that's easy to do when one is emotional, so try and be calm while you're writing it out.

I can personally tell you that you did a couple of things wrong:

1) the next time this happens, you are solely responsible for two things: your safety and the safety of your wife. PERIOD. Your FIRST duty is to get to safety, and that means you should have immediately left the store and made your way to the safety of your car.

2) you should have IMMEDIATELY called 9-1-1. If you absolutely have to, stand at a distance and observe what is going on while relaying the information to dispatch in a calm manner. People are also less-likely to fuck with you if you tell them that you are talking to 9-1-1, because everything is recorded. Portland Police have good response times when it comes to fights. The best thing you can do in that situation, with no training or self-defense tools on your person, is to be the best observer that you can be. The law loves a good, honest, observant bystander.

Also, you should know that the store employees, including security, have NO legal right to detain you AT ALL. It is NOT a crime to take a picture, and they would ALL be looking at a VERY big lawsuit, I'm sure, if they got physical with you. So the next time they yell at you, immediately and calmly leave the store. They CANNOT charge you with ANYTHING. They are civilian employees making hourly wages at a corporation. They have no more legal authority than you do.

Now, that would be different if you actually were observed committing a crime. But that is irrelevant, since you were NOT committing a crime.

So I'm glad you're okay. Do NOT be afraid to defend yourself as necessary next time. And consider carrying either a tazer or a can of pepperspray. If you're going for the pepperspray, take my advice and get a quality brand: Fox Labs 5.3 or Sabre Red.

And this goes without saying....FIND ANOTHER STORE TO SHOP IN. If that means you have to drive to another part of the city, then so be it.

Sly, I agree with Jade. Keep yourself and your loved ones out of the confrontation and immediately call 911.

 

[Sinobas]

If the biker guy was really a wal-mart employee and he assaulted you, you probably could have sued the shit out of Wal-Mart (or gotten a nice settlement). The fact that the employees were so non responsive and hostile to you makes me think they were in on it somehow.

Anyway, you definitely need to report this to either the police, or someone in upper management at wal-mart, because it sounds like they need to fire a lot of their staff.

 

[Sinobas]

Damn, what a story. Seems like the white trash biker security douche was afraid to do something about the domestic issue initially, then once the man/woman white trash combo left the store he decided to grow a pair of nuts and take his anger out on you. What a fucking idiot, all of them. You need to get ahold of corporate and get all these fucks fired! Completely ridiculous and uncalled for for them to theaten/intimidate a concerned customer. They need to find work elsewhere, apparently walmart is not trashy enough for them.

Don't think so. I think the Biker guy was more like an accomplice. If he were really there for security he wouldn't just stand there.

 

[Sinobas]

To me, sounds like this group of people are part of some kind of crime ring. Definitely they're up to no good.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Everyone assuming Walmart doesn't instruct their employees to stand back and watch. Probably following orders.

Not the screaming about photos part. I've been itching for a chance to beat someone's ass while holding my phone and getting video with my left hand. Please please please.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Don't think so. I think the Biker guy was more like an accomplice. If he were really there for security he wouldn't just stand there.

That's not necessarily true. There could have been a lack of training on his part (which would, unfortunately, not be uncommon), or he felt that he was doing what his training teaches at the basics: Observe and Report. And most corporate policies forbid getting involved unless the store employee (security) has visually observed merchandise being stolen. At which point they can move in and make a citizens arrest and detain the suspect until police arrive (in my experience, properly trained and licensed Loss Prevention Officers carry handcuffs and proper ID with them for such an occasion).

If he was Loss Prevention, then he was likely NOT security. Security would have had jackets and markings of "Security", and their jobs/responsibilities are a bit different according to their training and/or store/corporate policy.

Most people don't know that, but a standard guy wearing a "Security" jacket patrolling the parking lot and store is usually NOT Loss Prevention.

I know it sounds like bullshit, but corporate and private security laws really are that anal. It makes covering your ass very easy from a Corporate and personnel perspective, and it makes enforcing Private Property laws simple for those who aren't trained very well.

"Liability" is the key word here.

All that being said, it still puzzles me....if he WAS some sort of security personnel, then why wasn't he calling the police? Was there somebody else watching a camera monitor somewhere that was doing it for him? That still doesn't explain his lack of professionalism.

It would not surprise me if Corporate Policy forbade interfering with what appeared to be domestic violence situations. Corporations have a LOT of lawyers for just that sort of reason.

But we don't know what was going on here. All we have is one version of events.

 

[oldfisherman]

Everyone assuming Walmart doesn't instruct their employees to stand back and watch. Probably following orders.

.

Which begs the question. Does Walmart also instruct their employees to NOT CALL 911 when there is physical violence in their store? Something is very wrong at that store.

My guess is the key to unraveling this mystery is the store surveillance videos. The Walmart head of security in Kansas needs to have those videos saved. Otherwise, if they are destroyed, it will be Sly's word against an organized group of employees.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Which begs the question. Does Walmart also instruct their employees to NOT CALL 911 when there is physical violence in their store? Something is very wrong at that store.

My guess is the key to unraveling this mystery is the store surveillance videos. The Walmart head of security in Kansas needs to have those videos saved. Otherwise, if they are destroyed, it will be Sly's word against an organized group of employees.

There you go.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Cops should have been called. Clearly

 

[Sinobas]

Well, Sly seemed to be under the impression that the guy was his "buddy", and he was there. It's hard to imagine a store like wal-mart doesn't have security personnel on hand to stop an assault like that. Wouldn't have been too hard to wrangle the guy. Just jump on his back and put in him a rear choke hold. Say goodnight!

 

[Jade Falcon]

Well, Sly seemed to be under the impression that the guy was his "buddy", and he was there. It's hard to imagine a store like wal-mart doesn't have security personnel on hand to stop an assault like that. Wouldn't have been too hard to wrangle the guy. Just jump on his back and put in him a rear choke hold. Say goodnight!

And say "hello" to a massive lawsuit if he has a heart attack and dies. Ahem...Eric Garner......

Precisely the reason why corporations forbid their employees from getting involved in many situations. I actually worked for a company once, where the guards in Seattle watched a fight on a transit platform; a fight that ended up with one person almost dead and in the hospital. The company came right out and said they supported their officers and their actions. They were not disciplined or fired.

It made big news years ago, but I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

If companies require employees to stand there and watch the company should be punished if police aren't called. Don't wanna do anything? Fine, but you have some responsibility if you operate a business.

 

[Sinobas]

And say "hello" to a massive lawsuit if he has a heart attack and dies. Ahem...Eric Garner......

Precisely the reason why corporations forbid their employees from getting involved in many situations. I actually worked for a company once, where the guards in Seattle watched a fight on a transit platform; a fight that ended up with one person almost dead and in the hospital. The company came right out and said they supported their officers and their actions. They were not disciplined or fired.

It made big news years ago, but I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.

The right to use force to protect yourself extends to the right to protect others as well. You wouldn't get in trouble for tackling a guy that was beating a woman up.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

The right to use force to protect yourself extends to the right to protect others as well. You wouldn't get in trouble for tackling a guy that was beating a woman up.

I hope not.

 

[Sinobas]

In the olden days, there was a thing called a "hue and cry", if someone called for help, people were obligated to assist or they could get into trouble.

 

[MarAzul]

end up with of three of these losers trying to beat you up.

Dang! I already hate to go to Walmart. It seems to always feel like Sly's experience.
I was there Monday, in and out quick as possible. It's the only damn place in town where you can get a SIM card.

Ha! I have to laugh sort of in a sick way after reading Sly's report. A rule I made up, err sort of a rule;
When your in a decent place, it's good to help a woman under attack.
When your in a crappy place, never help a woman being attacked by a man! Chances are huge that they both will be whacking you before you finish.
Walmart strongly suggest the rule is valid.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Forgive me: it was the King County Sheriff's office in Seattle that defended them. It happened in 2010, and the girl involved actually did not even go to the hospital, I don't think.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=23000.0;wap2

The right to use force to protect yourself extends to the right to protect others as well. You wouldn't get in trouble for tackling a guy that was beating a woman up.

You'd get fired though if it's against corporate policy. I guarantee it. They don't give a shit about the woman getting beat up; you are there as an insurance policy, nothing more. They care that you keep the business out of a lawsuit. That's it.

And if you think that's bad how corporations treat such issues, you should see how private security companies treat their employees.

 

[Sedatedfork]

I bet biker guy is a Lakers fan and so is the pos wife beater.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

I'm still expecting SPD to say this was all a joke.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Small update:

Filing a police report:

I looked online at the PPD website. It clearly says for cases of domestic related and if you don't know the names of the parties involved you can't file an online complaint.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/cor/

All I have is the first name of the assistant manager, she refused twice to give Mrs Poker Dog her last name when asked.

The only other option was to call the police non-emergency number. Except the moment the word Walmart tumbles out of my mouth you can't help but think that the officer on the other end of the phone is going to make assumptions about the type of person I am. (People of Walmart comes to mind, lol.)

So I put on a nice dress shirt and jeans and drove to the SE precinct and they were closed, then drove to PPD headquarters in downtown Portland, the thought that this is the type of story that is best told in person.

Mrs Poker Dog came along with me.

The officer at HQ said that since Walmart is not in their precinct he would not take a report. The SE precinct is closed on Sunday. (which we hard already found out.) I could call the non-emergency number but there is no guarantee that an officer would be available to come to my home and take a report.

We have things to do today, errands to run, so waiting around at home all day for an officer to maybe show up is not really an option.

At this point I'm going to write up a shorter version of what I already posted here, include the manager's first name, and then go ahead and submit it online.

Then tomorrow I will go to the SE precinct and ask to speak to someone in person. Hopefully they will be able to pull up what I have already submitted online and they will have an easier time writing up my complaint.

I'm not contacting Walmart corporate until tomorrow at the earliest and after my complaint has been officially and properly submitted.

The desk sergeant downtown did say that they will send someone to the store to review the store video and interview the Walmart employees involved.

This is exactly what I want to happen. My story is accurate and the video will support that.

 

[Jade Falcon]

I looked online at the PPD website. It clearly says for cases of domestic related and if you don't know the names of the parties involved you can't file an online complaint.

Don't do this online.

All I have is the first name of the assistant manager, she refused twice to give Mrs Poker Dog her last name when asked.

Corporate DEFINITELY needs to get involved with that.

The only other option was to call the police non-emergency number. Except the moment the word Walmart tumbles out of my mouth you can't help but think that the officer on the other end of the phone is going to make assumptions about the type of person I am. (People of Walmart comes to mind, lol.)

Stop worrying about that. That shouldn't even be a concern of yours. These are professional police officers who get called to every kind of dump imaginable...from crack houses to titty bars. Trust me: they are not going to make any assumptions based on the fact that you shop at Walmart.

So I put on a nice dress shirt and jeans and drove to the SE precinct and they were closed, then drove to PPD headquarters in downtown Portland, the thought that this is the type of story that is best told in person.

Correct.

The officer at HQ said that since Walmart is not in their precinct he would not take a report. The SE precinct is closed on Sunday. (which we hard already found out.) I could call the non-emergency number but there is no guarantee that an officer would be available to come to my home and take a report.

What a bunch of horseshit. Your next contact needs to be the Precinct Commander or the Assistant Chief or Chief of Police. I would go in that order. HQ should ALWAYS take a fucking report from a citizen; regardless of location.

Then tomorrow I will go to the SE precinct and ask to speak to someone in person. Hopefully they will be able to pull up what I have already submitted online and they will have an easier time writing up my complaint.

Good! Stick with it. Be as pesky about this as you have to be. It is their fucking jobs to investigate this. This was NOT a civil matter.

And if they don't investigate it, then the State needs to be notified.

I'm not contacting Walmart corporate until tomorrow at the earliest and after my complaint has been officially and properly submitted.

Good. Again: stick with it and be as pesky as you have to be. And it's always best to have a police report on your side, and you can always request a copy of it.

The desk sergeant downtown did say that they will send someone to the store to review the store video and interview the Walmart employees involved.

This is exactly what I want to happen. My story is accurate and the video will support that.

Good to hear. Keep us updated.

Thank God I don't live in Portland. Jesus Christ, what a fucking waste of beautiful scenery.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What a bunch of horseshit. Your next contact needs to be the Precinct Commander or the Assistant Chief or Chief of Police. I would go in that order. HQ should ALWAYS take a fucking report from a citizen; regardless of location.

The desk sergeant was very polite and helpful. After listening to a brief version of what happened his advice was designed to put the incident in the hands of who could properly investigate instead of it getting lost in bureaucracy.