If CJ were to be traded, who are we most likely to get?

[AldoTrapani]

I'm fine with getting Simmons for CJ, but why does Philly do it? How is CJ better than Curry? And why would they want two undersized shooting guards?

Damn we use to have both Curry and Cj sad

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Explain to me why Embiid and Simmons are a terrible fit, but KAT and Simmons are perfect.

KAT is probably the closest facsimile to Embiid in the league, but Joel is a far better defender.

1. I never said Embiid and Simmons were terrible.
2. KAT is a far better outside shooter than Embiid. Embiid has improved (to work better with Simmons!) but that's KAT's strength - he's legit one of the best three point shooters of any size.
3. Simmons "complements" KAT by helping make up for his defensive weaknesses.

 

[calvin natt]

Which part?

Why would MDA make him a superstar.

 

[Natebishop3]

Why would MDA make him a superstar.

Because MDA is all about offense and he seems to be really good at adjusting his offense depending on his personnel.

I think Simmons would benefit from having Dame with him, but I just have a feeling that he would unlock Simmons' potential on offense. If you look at Nash's number before and after joining MDA in Phoenix, his stats are insanely different. Nash was pretty borderline in Dallas. He was good, but not MVP good.



His scoring went from good to insanely efficient. His assists went through the roof. I just really think that MDA could give us the best version of Simmons. But I'm not entirely sure if MDA is considered a motivator. We need a coach who can address his confidence. I think Doc was a horrible fit.

 

[calvin natt]

Because MDA is all about offense and he seems to be really good at adjusting his offense depending on his personnel.

I think Simmons would benefit from having Dame with him, but I just have a feeling that he would unlock Simmons' potential on offense. If you look at Nash's number before and after joining MDA in Phoenix, his stats are insanely different. Nash was pretty borderline in Dallas. He was good, but not MVP good.

View attachment 39171

His scoring went from good to insanely efficient. His assists went through the roof. I just really think that MDA could give us the best version of Simmons. But I'm not entirely sure if MDA is considered a motivator. We need a coach who can address his confidence. I think Doc was a horrible fit.

But I don’t recall a player who legit sucked offensively turning good under him. Simmons IMO isn’t about “unlocking potential”, or setting him free so he can flourish. The dude cannot shoot a basketball. He’s so far in his head he would need a psychologist more than a shooting coach

 

[Natebishop3]

But I don’t recall a player who legit sucked offensively turning good under him. Simmons IMO isn’t about “unlocking potential”, or setting him free so he can flourish. The dude cannot shoot a basketball. He’s so far in his head he would need a psychologist more than a shooting coach

I don't think he sucks offensively. He sucks at confidence. Offense is about more than just shooting though. He's a great passer. I agree though. We would need to find a way to empower him and fix his confidence.

 

[tester551]

But I don’t recall a player who legit sucked offensively turning good under him. Simmons IMO isn’t about “unlocking potential”, or setting him free so he can flourish. The dude cannot shoot a basketball. He’s so far in his head he would need a psychologist more than a shooting coach

What's the problem there? They psychologist wouldn't count against the cap...

 

[calvin natt]

What's the problem there? They psychologist wouldn't count against the cap...

The problem is it takes time. Like needs to start yesterday figuring it out. He’s going to head out to the Bahamas or Hawaii and relax and show up to camp and have same problems.

 

[illmatic99]

What's the problem there? They psychologist wouldn't count against the cap...

Already have one.

https://www.nba.com/blazers/contact/frontoffice

 

[Ed O]

And criticize CJ all you want, but the guy would not ever have the yips and stop shooting altogether in game 7 of a playoff game.

A perimeter creator is a perfect fit for that team.

I wish CJ would have stopped shooting the last two games of the series.

I'd prefer 2-4 from the field to 7-22 or 9-21.

 

[illmatic99]

I wish CJ would have stopped shooting the last two games of the series.

I'd prefer 2-4 from the field than 7-22 or 9-21.

so would i. but CJ is not passing up an open layup down 2 in a Game 7. nor is he doing dribble hand offs with Curry while he has 10 feet of space from his defender. CJ is exactly the kinda guy that Philly team needs.

 

[RR7]

It's been said plenty, but the only reason we're able to have this conversation is because of these playoff yips. We all knew he couldn't shoot the 3 before the playoffs, but if a straight CJ for Simmons trade was brought up in the beginning of the season, it would have been roundly mocked.
I think we need to strike while we can to add a player like Ben. Is there risk? Of course. But haven't we all been complaining about Neil not taking risks with the roster?

 

[TBpup]

It's been said plenty, but the only reason we're able to have this conversation is because of these playoff yips. We all knew he couldn't shoot the 3 before the playoffs, but if a straight CJ for Simmons trade was brought up in the beginning of the season, it would have been roundly mocked.
I think we need to strike while we can to add a player like Ben. Is there risk? Of course. But haven't we all been complaining about Neil not taking risks with the roster?

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PCmor7]

If you're the Sixers, would you rather have CJ or D'Angelo Russell? Serious question, because I'm not sure. Russell has more PG abilities and has shown some clutchness, but he sounds like he's a bit of a dick, to be honest, and has not won anywhere. CJ has a far better character, but he's older and not a PG.
Minny absolutely should jump on a Simmons-for-Russell trade, though. KAT and Simmons complement each other almost perfectly. They should even throw in a pick or two.

CJ also has local appeal. Don't think for a minute Philly fans have forgotten him leading Lehigh over Duke in the NCAA Tournament.

And he has more to his game than Seth Curry. Some people get too caught up in efficiency and forget that there are guys that are efficient because they play a role well and aren't even Robin -- they're more like Alfred the butler for their team's Batman.

CJ probably has more value to Philly for a number of reasons that outweigh his deficiencies here. Simmons is at a point where the expectations for him are so high in a city where the expectations are so high that he probably wants out, and, tbh, the Sixers might have to move him to keep the natives at peace. Again, I just wonder if you see a team like OKC that has a million draft picks and says they'd trade Gilgeous-Alexander and picks for Simmons and bank on allllll those draft picks they have to pick SGA's replacement.

 

[illmatic99]

CJ also has local appeal. Don't think for a minute Philly fans have forgotten him leading Lehigh over Duke in the NCAA Tournament.

And he has more to his game than Seth Curry. Some people get too caught up in efficiency and forget that there are guys that are efficient because they play a role well and aren't even Robin -- they're more like Alfred the butler for their team's Batman.

CJ probably has more value to Philly for a number of reasons that outweigh his deficiencies here. Simmons is at a point where the expectations for him are so high in a city where the expectations are so high that he probably wants out, and, tbh, the Sixers might have to move him to keep the natives at peace. Again, I just wonder if you see a team like OKC that has a million draft picks and says they'd trade Gilgeous-Alexander and picks for Simmons and bank on allllll those draft picks they have to pick SGA's replacement.

you had me until the SGA+picks for Simmons thing.

At this point, I think SGA has far more value than Ben.

 

[PCmor7]

I don't think he sucks offensively. He sucks at confidence. Offense is about more than just shooting though. He's a great passer. I agree though. We would need to find a way to empower him and fix his confidence.

I think there's another element here: Fear. Simmons doesn't just lack confidence in his shot. His comments suggest he doesn't even think he can improve and probably won't work hard at it, probably because he sees it not working and that compounding his failure/shortcomings.

I coached an HS player like that. Really hard-nosed defensive kid. He would have been our fifth option on offense, so, basically, he just needed to be able to make wide-open 15-foot jumpers to be a major asset because we had a couple of other kids who demanded double teams.

He wouldn't even attempt the shots. Killed morale of the whole team to see him 12 feet from the hoop unguarded and stand there for 5-10 seconds looking to pass the ball to covered teammates because he didn't want to take and potentially miss that one shot.

I remember a practice where we worked specifically on that and some of his mechanics. He gave up less than 5 minutes in because he wasn't getting immediate results.

Even worse, he was so self-conscious that he was letting the team down that he started undermining everyone else, telling other players that their teammates were not getting them the ball enough or not trying hard enough. Telling players they coaches weren't using them right. Telling coaches that players were saying stuff detrimental to the team. His fear of failure made him a cancer to the team.

 

[Natebishop3]

So I think a better question at this point is:

Who else would want Simmons?

Who else can/would offer something better than CJ?

Would NOP offer Ingram for Simmons?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Again, I just wonder if you see a team like OKC that has a million draft picks and says they'd trade Gilgeous-Alexander and picks for Simmons and bank on allllll those draft picks they have to pick SGA's replacement.

Yeah, that does sound possible. Although SGA's value may have surpassed Simmons at this point - he's very good.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think there's another element here: Fear. Simmons doesn't just lack confidence in his shot. His comments suggest he doesn't even think he can improve and probably won't work hard at it, probably because he sees it not working and that compounding his failure/shortcomings.

I coached an HS player like that. Really hard-nosed defensive kid. He would have been our fifth option on offense, so, basically, he just needed to be able to make wide-open 15-foot jumpers to be a major asset because we had a couple of other kids who demanded double teams.

He wouldn't even attempt the shots. Killed morale of the whole team to see him 12 feet from the hoop unguarded and stand there for 5-10 seconds looking to pass the ball to covered teammates because he didn't want to take and potentially miss that one shot.

I remember a practice where we worked specifically on that and some of his mechanics. He gave up less than 5 minutes in because he wasn't getting immediate results.

Even worse, he was so self-conscious that he was letting the team down that he started undermining everyone else, telling other players that their teammates were not getting them the ball enough or not trying hard enough. Telling players they coaches weren't using them right. Telling coaches that players were saying stuff detrimental to the team. His fear of failure made him a cancer to the team.

You're not selling us on Simmons here...

Simmons' stone-faced demeanor has always bothered me. Of course, CJ's the same way on the court, but he's nothing like that off it. Does Simmons even show his real self? He seems super-private.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, that does sound possible. Although SGA's value may have surpassed Simmons at this point - he's very good.

He's also young. He's only 22. So it doesn't make sense for OKC to trade a guy that fits their window and is already extremely good for a guy that's older and is coming off his worst performance in his career.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I wish CJ would have stopped shooting the last two games of the series.

I'd prefer 2-4 from the field to 7-22 or 9-21.

Trae Young was 5-23 in Sunday's game...

 

[Wizard Mentor]

"i am who i am, it is what it is", meaning: "ill never shoot mid range or 3-pointers and ill pass on wide open layups"

id love to have him for his ability to defend, pass and rebound, but that stubbornness is head scratching

still, love me some front court defense with nurk, simmons and roco

He also said that he's gonna get back into the gym because he needs to keep improving.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

CJ also has local appeal. Don't think for a minute Philly fans have forgotten him leading Lehigh over Duke in the NCAA Tournament.

And he has more to his game than Seth Curry. Some people get too caught up in efficiency and forget that there are guys that are efficient because they play a role well and aren't even Robin -- they're more like Alfred the butler for their team's Batman.

OK, then they can send us Curry and Simmons for CJ and Jones, or if they insist, Little.

 

[Pinwheel1]

OK, then they can send us Curry and Simmons for CJ and Jones, or if they insist, Little.

Little should not be a throw-in for any trade. He is just scratching the service. We will know way more about him after next year.
The guy needs playing time.

 

[pougie]

OK, then they can send us Curry and Simmons for CJ and Jones, or if they insist, Little.

From a 6ers perspective, the best thing to try is probably flip Ben/Curry -> CJ/DJJ/protected 1st then flip DJJ/protected 1st to TOR for Lowry in a sign-and-trade.

Lowry/CJ/Thybulle/Harris/Embiid is a lot more balanced than currently constructed. Turning Simmons/Curry into Lowry/CJ is probably the best they can hope for, which isn’t all bad.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

From a 6ers perspective, the best thing to try is probably flip Ben/Curry -> CJ/DJJ/protected 1st then flip DJJ/protected 1st to TOR for Lowry in a sign-and-trade.

Lowry/CJ/Thybulle/Harris/Embiid is a lot more balanced than currently constructed. Turning Simmons/Curry into Lowry/CJ is probably the best they can hope for, which isn’t all bad.

Yeh, I would rather send them a pick than Little.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Magic Johnson and Steven A Smith just said there should be a CJ for Simmons swap.

I think it makes a lot of sense for both teams.

 

[TBpup]

Magic Johnson and Steven A Smith just said there should be a CJ for Simmons swap.

I think it makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Getting some national media on board doesn't hurt.

 

[illmatic99]

Zach Lowe on his pod today w/ Bobby Marks: the two teams that stand out as potential Simmons destinations are Portland and Chicago.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=31681455

"I'm gonna tell you right now, Portland is going to talk tough today, 'why would we want to trade CJ McCollum for Ben Simmons? CJ is a proven scorer in the playoffs.' That's fine. CJ is 29 on giant contract. Simmons in 24 on a giant contract. But the Lillard-Simmons combo makes sense to me even with any spacing issues in the low post with Nurkic, but we can deal with that later. Lillard-McCollum also made a ton of sense, but there are clear defensive limitations that have prevented them from getting over the hump."

 

[PCmor7]

From a 6ers perspective, the best thing to try is probably flip Ben/Curry -> CJ/DJJ/protected 1st then flip DJJ/protected 1st to TOR for Lowry in a sign-and-trade.

Lowry/CJ/Thybulle/Harris/Embiid is a lot more balanced than currently constructed. Turning Simmons/Curry into Lowry/CJ is probably the best they can hope for, which isn’t all bad.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if the Sixers are getting a protected first AND CJ or anything like that in any deal for Simmons right now. Guy isn't the No. 1 pick anymore. There's a book on him, and he has some serious flaws, actually, when you think about it, more serious than CJ's.

People need to stop looking at CJ as the guy you hate as a Blazer and want to give away for any warm body and realize that not every NBA team or fan base sees him as that bad, nor is any guy that we'd trade for CJ some perfect talent.