If the 2013 draft was repicked today...

[Natebishop3]

Would CJ go number one? Such an abysmal group of players.....

The only players worth a damn are

Greek Freak
Gobert
Oladipo
Noel
MCW

Plums and Crabbe are certainly climbing the list though.

 

[Natebishop3]

Here are your top 15 from that draft

1. Anthony Bennett (trash)
2. Oladipo (solid)
3. Otto Porter (trash)
4. Cody Zeller (meh)
5. Alex Len (meh)
6. Nerlens Noel (okay)
7. Ben McLemore (needs to get out of Sac)
8. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (trash)
9. Trey Burke (what happened to this guy?)
10. CJ
11. MCW (the Nic Batum of point guards)
12. Steven Adams (meh)
13. Kelly Olynyk (meh)
14. Shabazz Muhammad (meh)
15. Giannis (solid)

 

[brendanjames]

Trey Burke is doing ok. Numbers are a but down on first two years but not a disaster.

Adams is solid. Big guys take longer to develop. He will be a solid player fornthe next decade.

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[brendanjames]

Dennis Schroeder is going well too.

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[B-Roy]

I'll give it a go I guess:

1. Antetokoumpo
2. Gobert
3. CJ
4. Noel
5. Oladipo
6. Plumlee
7. Len
8. Adams
9. Caldwell-Pope
10. Lauvergne
11. MCW
12. Dieng
13. Zeller
14. Schroeder
15. Olynyk
16. Muhammad
17. Crabbe
18. Porter
19. McLemore
20. Burke

It's hard, there's actually a lot of solid players there. A lot of similar 3&D and defensive bigs. After the top 6, I think you would pretty much draft based on need. Everyone is pretty even. I put Antetokoumpo first over Gobert because of potential, but it's hard to say if he will reach it. Gobert is clearly the best big of the bunch, but it is hard to say how valuable a center that strictly stays in the paint is anymore. That is the problem with a lot of these centers....Gobert, Plumlee, Len, Noel, Adams, Dieng, etc. Without developing some sort of outside game it's hard to see them become anything more than glorified role players. It's hard to see anyone in this group as stars actually. CJ and Antetokoumpo are the most realistic choices imo, but even they are fringe stars. Most of these guys seem to be forever doomed to be role players, but it's far from being the worst draft ever. That distinction goes to the 2000 NBA draft...

Interesting fact is that Mason Plumlee leads the entire draft class in WS at 11.8. He is also effectively 2nd in WS/48 after Gobert. (Tony Mitchell and Lucas Noguiera are technically between Plumlee and Gobert, but they have barely played)

 

[BBert]

Nerlens Noel was supposed to be the next big thing. I kinda forgot about him.

I had McLemore pretty high on my list. Can't say I have an opinion on him at the moment.

I really wanted the Blazers to get Gobert. I was actually disappointed they didn't.

I'd say the Blazers did pretty well snagging CJ.

 

[Pinwheel1]

There are some decent players in that draft, but definitely no one worth tanking over. We needed a SG out of that draft. Oladipo seemed to be the consensus favorite choice, and still would have been a good option. But if you combine both Crabbe and CJ.........Neil hit a home run in that draft. Especially considering Crabbe is better right now than McLemore.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'll give it a go I guess:

1. Antetokoumpo
2. Gobert
3. CJ
4. Noel
5. Oladipo
6. Plumlee
7. Len
8. Adams
9. Caldwell-Pope
10. Lauvergne
11. MCW
12. Dieng
13. Zeller
14. Schroeder
15. Olynyk
16. Muhammad
17. Crabbe
18. Porter
19. McLemore
20. Burke

It's hard, there's actually a lot of solid players there. A lot of similar 3&D and defensive bigs. After the top 6, I think you would pretty much draft based on need. Everyone is pretty even. I put Antetokoumpo first over Gobert because of potential, but it's hard to say if he will reach it. Gobert is clearly the best big of the bunch, but it is hard to say how valuable a center that strictly stays in the paint is anymore. That is the problem with a lot of these centers....Gobert, Plumlee, Len, Noel, Adams, Dieng, etc. Without developing some sort of outside game it's hard to see them become anything more than glorified role players. It's hard to see anyone in this group as stars actually. CJ and Antetokoumpo are the most realistic choices imo, but even they are fringe stars. Most of these guys seem to be forever doomed to be role players, but it's far from being the worst draft ever. That distinction goes to the 2000 NBA draft...

Interesting fact is that Mason Plumlee leads the entire draft class in WS at 11.8. He is also effectively 2nd in WS/48 after Gobert. (Tony Mitchell and Lucas Noguiera are technically between Plumlee and Gobert, but they have barely played)

I definitely agree that this is by no means the worst draft in the history of the NBA, but in terms of star power it is definitely weak. On that list, the only real candidates to ever be stars are still only CJ, Giannis, Gobert, Noel, and Oladipo. The rest appear to be nothing more than role players, which is fine, but that's kind of my point.

I guess I'm not as in love with Gobert as some people. I really like Antetokoumpo though. The guy is a lot like Durant, but without the outside shot. Still, CJ is having BY FAR the best year out of anyone in that draft.

CJ - 20 ppg, 4.3 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.3 steals, 18.54 PER

Gobert - 9.2 ppg, 10.9 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, 16.95 PER (those are good numbers, but not star worthy)

Antetokoumpo - 15.4 ppg, 6.5 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 16.72 PER (again, really solid numbers, but not star worthy and not as big of a jump as many people thought he would make this year.)

Oladipo - 12.6 ppg, 5.1 rebounds, 3.9 assists, 14.41 PER (this season has definitely been a disappointment for him so far.)

Noel - 10 ppg, 7.9 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 12 PER (solid but not doesn't stand out as special)

Here are Plums and Crabbe for comparison

Plumlee - 9.4 ppg, 8.3 rebounds, 1 block, 16.62 PER

Crabbe - 10.6 ppg, 2.3 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 12.45 PER

It's interesting because, if you look at these stats, their "per 36" is very similar in terms of scoring, but Crabbe is shooting WAY better than Oladipo, but Oladipo is by far the superior defender. Still, that's pretty damn good value for a guy we got in the second round compared to a guy many people thought could go number one.

http://bkref.com/tiny/33ZBZ

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Porter is far from trash. He looked it the first year, but he's a really solid player now. Noel is going to look a lot better on a better team. He's an elite combination of blocks and steals, it's just that the rest of that team is so shoddy (and he's playing next to a plodder) that great individual defense isn't going to do much. Caldwell-Pope is a starter on a very solid team, and is a two-way player, which counts for a lot.

 

[B-Roy]

I guess I'm not as in love with Gobert as some people. I really like Antetokoumpo though. The guy is a lot like Durant, but without the outside shot. Still, CJ is having BY FAR the best year out of anyone in that draft.

Gobert - 9.2 ppg, 10.9 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, 16.95 PER (those are good numbers, but not star worthy)

Antetokoumpo - 15.4 ppg, 6.5 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 16.72 PER (again, really solid numbers, but not star worthy and not as big of a jump as many people thought he would make this year.)

The difference with Gobert is that he's an elite rim protector, and if you trust this: http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/ , the best one in the entire league in terms of opponent shooting % at the rim at 35% and raw points saved /36. (Mason Plumlee is one of the WORST rim protectors in the entire league, allowing 58%!!!)

Anything you get on offense with him is just a bonus, his defense will always make him one of the more valuable players on his team. The issue is that against teams who don't go inside that often, he's pretty much useless. That's why Gobert has historically been bad against the Blazers. Still, I think being the best rim protector in the league gets him drafted 1st or 2nd. The best offenses in the league all score a ton of points in the paint, and Gobert would be a dominant asset against all those teams.

 

[Natebishop3]

Porter is far from trash. He looked it the first year, but he's a really solid player now. Noel is going to look a lot better on a better team. He's an elite combination of blocks and steals, it's just that the rest of that team is so shoddy (and he's playing next to a plodder) that great individual defense isn't going to do much. Caldwell-Pope is a starter on a very solid team, and is a two-way player, which counts for a lot.

Trash was an exaggeration, but come on.... with where they were drafted and it's been 2.5 seasons?

Porter - 11.6 PPG, 5.3 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 13.25 PER (not really setting the world on fire for the 3rd pick in the draft)

Caldwell-Pope - 13.9 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 2 assists, 11.91 PER (that's in almost 38 minutes per game.)

It's like B-Roy said..... Role players.

 

[B-Roy]

Trash was an exaggeration, but come on.... with where they were drafted and it's been 2.5 seasons?

Porter - 11.6 PPG, 5.3 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 13.25 PER (not really setting the world on fire for the 3rd pick in the draft)

Caldwell-Pope - 13.9 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 2 assists, 11.91 PER (that's in almost 38 minutes per game.)

It's like B-Roy said..... Role players.

I think he was responding to you calling them both trash.

They're both solid role-players, just like everyone else in that draft.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think he was responding to you calling them both trash.

They're both solid role-players, just like everyone else in that draft.

If they were taken mid-to-late in the first round, their numbers would be totally fine. We're over the moon with Crabbe's production, which is practically on par with them in 10-20 less minutes. I would just be really disappointed if I was Washington. Porter was taken 3rd in that draft.

 

[Natebishop3]

Here's a statistical comparison of CJ, Crabbe, Porter, Caldwell-Pope, and Oladipo.

http://bkref.com/tiny/YFxZ5

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

Trash was an exaggeration, but come on.... with where they were drafted and it's been 2.5 seasons?

Porter - 11.6 PPG, 5.3 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 13.25 PER (not really setting the world on fire for the 3rd pick in the draft)

Caldwell-Pope - 13.9 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 2 assists, 11.91 PER (that's in almost 38 minutes per game.)

It's like B-Roy said..... Role players.

Most lottery picks don't become stars. Most become solid rotation players and if they stick in the league, I'd say it's a good draft pick. I'd say DC and Detroit have drafted really well. Considering we have CJ, id pass on KCP, but I'd definitely take Porter. I'd actually say it's a pretty decent draft - not a lot of star power - but a lot of people that could be in the league for a long, long time. That's how I determine draft strength - not the amount of superstars - but the amount of useful players. I'm with rasta...this draft, far from trash. If people from DC are disappointed in Porter Jr., they should learn the game and probably educate themselves. He was a HIGH usage SF/PG combo that had the ball in his hands a LOT. He then goes to DC and sits on the bench behind Martell webster? He plays with two players that get the ball in their hands a LOT and he doesn't get the chance to create like he did. DC has wall, so I doubt they want to run an offense that takes the ball out of his hands and uses Otto porter more like Batum. That's like saying the Warriors are disappointed in Harrison Barnes.

 

[PCmor7]

When I saw Noel play in college, I thought "There's the next Theo Ratliff."

 

[Pinwheel1]

Here's a statistical comparison of CJ, Crabbe, Porter, Caldwell-Pope, and Oladipo.

http://bkref.com/tiny/YFxZ5

Assists and points I expected, but I am a little surprised that CJ has more steals than Oladipo.

 

[KingSpeed]

By the way, isn't the 2014 class a total bust? MM and others said that draft was gonna turnout 7 or 8 All Stars.

 

[KingSpeed]

Actually that draft is pretty good. My bad. 2014 that is.

 

[Draco]

If they were taken mid-to-late in the first round, their numbers would be totally fine. We're over the moon with Crabbe's production, which is practically on par with them in 10-20 less minutes. I would just be really disappointed if I was Washington. Porter was taken 3rd in that draft.

Once the draft is done whatever pick a player was is a sunk cost. Management should never value an NBA player based on his draft position.

 

[Draco]

By the way, isn't the 2014 class a total bust? MM and others said that draft was gonna turnout 7 or 8 All Stars.

Its obviously very early with that class but yeah it hasn't lived up to expectations yet. Wiggins is a stud; but so much of that class is hurt. We are through one and a third seasons but Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Exum, Smart, Randle, have all had season ending or major type of injuries. Thats 6 of the top 7 picks.

Still could ultimately be a great class though; hell CJ was a 4 year player and did nothing his first two years. That 2014 class also has Jordan Clarkson, Nikola Jokic, Clint Capela, Rodney Hood, Mitch McGary, Gary Harris, Jusuf Nurkic, TJ Warren, Zach LaVine, Doug McDermott, Elfrid Payton, our Noah Vonleh and the still in Europe Dario Saric.

 

[Natebishop3]

Once the draft is done whatever pick a player was is a sunk cost. Management should never value an NBA player based on his draft position.

Maybe management shouldn't value them based on where they were selected, but the fans and media sure will. We constantly lament who we should have taken and how our guy performed.


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[Pinwheel1]

Its obviously very early with that class but yeah it hasn't lived up to expectations yet. Wiggins is a stud; but so much of that class is hurt. We are through one and a third seasons but Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Exum, Smart, Randle, have all had season ending or major type of injuries. Thats 6 of the top 7 picks.

Still could ultimately be a great class though; hell CJ was a 4 year player and did nothing his first two years. That 2014 class also has Jordan Clarkson, Nikola Jokic, Clint Capela, Rodney Hood, Mitch McGary, Gary Harris, Jusuf Nurkic, TJ Warren, Zach LaVine, Doug McDermott, Elfrid Payton, our Noah Vonleh and the still in Europe Dario Saric.

Nice research. That list of players shows it was pretty deep. Basically you did not need to be in the lottery to get a good player. No need to tank, that's for sure. Hell the #1 pick was traded for Kevin Love. So even though it was deep, it was not top heavy.

 

[Tunchi]

Good discussion here

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Don't forget: Matthew Dellavedova went undrafted in 2013. So did Seth Curry.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

And Robert Covington. And Dewayne Dedmon.

 

[Draco]

Nice research. That list of players shows it was pretty deep. Basically you did not need to be in the lottery to get a good player. No need to tank, that's for sure. Hell the #1 pick was traded for Kevin Love. So even though it was deep, it was not top heavy.

Yeah thats a good point. The draft was supposed to be absolutely stacked at the top of the lottery. Turns out there are a lot of interesting players later in the first round and into the second.

 

[H.C.]

I like otto porter.


I think that team needs better coaching though.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I like otto porter.
[]

I think that team needs better coaching though.

I heard he was playing pretty well, but he still can't shoot past 3 feet.
That was my problem with him out of college, he could fill up the stat sheets, but he could not hit a wide open mid range shot. Let alone a 3ptr. Looking at his stats, he has not improved (28% this year 3-10 ft, 33%10-16 ft) Not sure that is coaching. Just another great athlete who never learned to shoot.

 

[Rastapopoulos]