If the PG search fails...

[andalusian]

Let's say that we believe that Portland really is going after Hedo - and they can not pull a S&T for the usual suspects (Kirk, Miller, Kidd, Nash) - does the team consider approaching GSW for Acie Law?

GSW is supposed to have Ellis as their PG - and they also drafted Curry as a PG/SG combo. Do they need Acie Law as well on the roster? Would the Blazers be interested in trading a small contract (or using an exception if they still have one) for him - to have him and JB fight for backup minutes?

 

[Mediocre Man]

To answer the title of the thread.

Then KP fails.

 

[hasoos]

I really like him coming out of college but he has struggled with the pro game, at least in Atlanta. Don't be surprised though if Nellies system in Golden State gets something out of him. They play a lot of small ball.

Take his production in Golden State, divide it by 2, and you have what he would produce on any non D'Antoni/Nelson type team at best.

 

[RickyRubio]

I would rather give Mills a shot than AC Law. I do like Law tho.

 

[PapaG]

It's funny that some people who were clamoring for a SF upgrade at the trade deadline, and who called it a failure by Pritchard, now are saying that the cap space should be used on a PG.

 

[Mediocre Man]

It's funny that some people who were clamoring for a SF upgrade at the trade deadline, and who called it a failure by Pritchard, now are saying that the cap space should be used on a PG.

It's because there were a lot more wing players available at the TD.

 

[PapaG]

It's because there were a lot more wing players available at the TD.

True, but that wouldn't have meant much right now because the team would have been already over the cap. "Blakey" would be pretty much set as the PG barring a trade that majorly shuffled the roster (i.e. one that wouldn't happen).

 

[BrianFromWA]

Not funny at all. Which PGs were available at the deadline? I mean, personally I might've taken the flyer on Arenas+Washington's lotto pick for RLEC, but that's a risk I'm not sure many would've. And Hinrich was fine, except that it seemed there was something up with the trade negotiations.

From what I'd heard, we had the opportunity for the following just for RLEC:
Carter plus 2 first round draft picks
Jefferson
Wallace if we threw in Batum (which I can see why we didn't)

No one said Nash was available, or Kidd, or any of the superior-passing PGs. So if there isn't an upgrade available at PG, the next biggest need was a 3rd-option scorer at the SF. And I think the "failure" by KP was in not utilizing (in his words) "the greatest expiring contract in history", which now he says was because it's risky to mess with team chemistry mid-season.

What I find funny is the people who say backup PF is the need we spend 5-6M on.

 

[PapaG]

Not funny at all. Which PGs were available at the deadline? I mean, personally I might've taken the flyer on Arenas+Washington's lotto pick for RLEC, but that's a risk I'm not sure many would've. And Hinrich was fine, except that it seemed there was something up with the trade negotiations.

From what I'd heard, we had the opportunity for the following just for RLEC:
Carter plus 2 first round draft picks
Jefferson
Wallace if we threw in Batum (which I can see why we didn't)

No one said Nash was available, or Kidd, or any of the superior-passing PGs. So if there isn't an upgrade available at PG, the next biggest need was a 3rd-option scorer at the SF. And I think the "failure" by KP was in not utilizing (in his words) "the greatest expiring contract in history", which now he says was because it's risky to mess with team chemistry mid-season.

What I find funny is the people who say backup PF is the need we spend 5-6M on.

Maybe funny isn't the right word. Conflicted? Contradictory? Confused? Concerned? Cornered?

 

[Tince]

True, but that wouldn't have meant much right now because the team would have been already over the cap. "Blakey" would be pretty much set as the PG barring a trade that majorly shuffled the roster (i.e. one that wouldn't happen).

It's nice to see someone gets it!

You trade Richard Jefferson for Batum and RLEC, then guess what, you have no cap space! Then we only have the MLE to offer a top tier starting PG.

 

[BrianFromWA]

just saw your above post about being locked in to Blake.

If, for instance, we would've done the RLEC for Carter and the two firsts, assuming nothing else different, we'd have

Blake/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
Carter/Batum/Cunningham
LMA/Outlaw/Pendergraph
Oden/Pryz
and, since we'd be over the cap, we'd have ~6M MLE, 2M BAE, ~3M IDTE. So we could still trade, say, Blake and Outlaw for Hinrich. Or Blake/Rudy/Outlaw for Nash. Or sign Kidd with the MLE. Whatever. IMO, regardless of team wins we would've had or lost, not utilizing RLEC for the 15M we could've received for it was a pretty big misstep.

 

[Tince]

just saw your above post about being locked in to Blake.

If, for instance, we would've done the RLEC for Carter and the two firsts, assuming nothing else different, we'd have

Blake/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
Carter/Batum/Cunningham
LMA/Outlaw/Pendergraph
Oden/Pryz
and, since we'd be over the cap, we'd have ~6M MLE, 2M BAE, ~3M IDTE. So we could still trade, say, Blake and Outlaw for Hinrich. Or Blake/Rudy/Outlaw for Nash. Or sign Kidd with the MLE. Whatever. IMO, regardless of team wins we would've had or lost, not utilizing RLEC for the 15M we could've received for it was a pretty big misstep.

But we can still make those trade you listed above now, and still retain our cap space.

I'm glad we didn't trade Batum, RLEC, and our capspace for Richard Jefferson. It would have left us without our most promising SF and teams would strong arm us in any trade, knowing we have to get a PG.

 

[PapaG]

just saw your above post about being locked in to Blake.

If, for instance, we would've done the RLEC for Carter and the two firsts, assuming nothing else different, we'd have

Blake/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
Carter/Batum/Cunningham
LMA/Outlaw/Pendergraph
Oden/Pryz
and, since we'd be over the cap, we'd have ~6M MLE, 2M BAE, ~3M IDTE. So we could still trade, say, Blake and Outlaw for Hinrich. Or Blake/Rudy/Outlaw for Nash. Or sign Kidd with the MLE. Whatever. IMO, regardless of team wins we would've had or lost, not utilizing RLEC for the 15M we could've received for it was a pretty big misstep.

Paying Vince Carter's contract would have been a big misstep, and the team actually would have been worse off defensively. Plus, without cap space, any leverage is lost. What is Chicago going to do with Travis Outlaw, BTW? Salmons, Deng, Thomas, ...Outlaw? Plus, what about guard? How does that deal improve them even if they don't lose Gordon? If they do lose Gordon, why would they trade Hinrich? I don't see the benefits of that trade for Chicago, and I'm not sold on Hinrich considering Portland would be losing one of two players who can create his own offense.

 

[BrianFromWA]

As it is, we're only going to have 7.5M or so in cap space, since we're not renouncing Blake or Travis (it seems).

That mean that, without having another team trade with us, we can only offer someone a max contract of 5yrs/43.5M, or an average of 8.6M/yr.
MLE will probably be around 6M, which means that any team can offer someone a max contract of 5yr/34.8M (average of 6.9M/yr).

So here's my reasoning...If there's
a) a player that would really help our team out in one of the positions we really need (I say "passing PG", but others may think "scoring SF" or "defensive anybody" and I wouldn't argue a ton); who
b) would not sign with us for 6.9M; but
c) would sign with us for 8.6M

then we were probably right to not trade for a big contract at the deadline. But if the player doesn't fit those three things, we were dumb for wasting RLEC.

We don't have "leverage" anyway, unless it's for one of those "I'll take 8.6 but not 6.9M" players. We can't even match the offer Hedo turned down from ORL (4yr, 34M) without getting them to agree on a trade. We have to do a trade for Hinrich. We have to do a trade for Sessions. Kidd we could probably sign at near the MLE.

And if we had Carter, we would have three players that create their own offense. But that's beside the point. We need a PG that creates offense for others, and then we don't have to worry about that as much.

 

[PapaG]

As it is, we're only going to have 7.5M or so in cap space, since we're not renouncing Blake or Travis (it seems).

That mean that, without having another team trade with us, we can only offer someone a max contract of 5yrs/43.5M, or an average of 8.6M/yr.
MLE will probably be around 6M, which means that any team can offer someone a max contract of 5yr/34.8M (average of 6.9M/yr).

So here's my reasoning...If there's
a) a player that would really help our team out in one of the positions we really need (I say "passing PG", but others may think "scoring SF" or "defensive anybody" and I wouldn't argue a ton); who
b) would not sign with us for 6.9M; but
c) would sign with us for 8.6M

then we were probably right to not trade for a big contract at the deadline. But if the player doesn't fit those three things, we were dumb for wasting RLEC.

We don't have "leverage" anyway, unless it's for one of those "I'll take 8.6 but not 6.9M" players. We can't even match the offer Hedo turned down from ORL (4yr, 34M) without getting them to agree on a trade. We have to do a trade for Hinrich. We have to do a trade for Sessions. Kidd we could probably sign at near the MLE.

And if we had Carter, we would have three players that create their own offense. But that's beside the point. We need a PG that creates offense for others, and then we don't have to worry about that as much.

I'm much more flexible about upgrading at PG this summer than I was taking on a large contract at the trade deadline. I'm just not convinced that Hinrich is a more effective creator than Blake.

 

[glazeduck]

I would argue that PG is more of an important upgrade simply because of the options available and the impact a mid-season trade would have on the team at the given positions.

OBVIOUSLY attaining both in the offseason would be great. BUT if it was one or the other, I'd want the floor general in charge of running the team the same guy the whole time... A SF being traded for midseason wouldn't shake things up as much as a starting pg would...

That said, again, lets just do both and not have to worry about it!

 

[BrianFromWA]

Flexible, like you could either upgrade or not, or flexible like it doesn't matter who, as long as it's an upgrade?

I'm convinced that Hinrich is a better creator, than Blake, but nowhere near the Kidd/Nash/(even Sessions?) level. But he is an all-league defender (though I know you disagree with that some), and if the cost is Webs+Blake...

 

[illmatic99]

To answer the title of the thread.

Then KP fails.

Absolutely.

I cooled on KP not making a deal with RLEC at the deadline, but if he fails to upgrade our most lacking position this off-season also, then he fucked up. Big time.

 

[Tince]

Absolutely.

I cooled on KP not making a deal with RLEC at the deadline, but if he fails to upgrade our most lacking position this off-season also, then he fucked up. Big time.

I agree, bring back Nash!

Who else is with us??

 

[LittleAlex]

I agree, bring back Nash!

Who else is with us??

I wasn't aware my only options where KP and the worst GM in the history of sports.

How about if KP doesn't manage to make any significant moves this off season then he has 2 strikes and is on thin ice?

Though I agree with the orignal response. If the PG search fails then KP wasted last summer, the last trade deadline and this off season.

 

[hasoos]

It's funny that some people who were clamoring for a SF upgrade at the trade deadline, and who called it a failure by Pritchard, now are saying that the cap space should be used on a PG.

I find it funny you choose try to make generic slams against nobody in particular with nothing to back it up.

Who are you slamming? Them.

Who are they?

To top it off, I believe you are wrong. Almost everybody on this board wants an upgrade at both positions, and it woudl be hard to find anybody in disagreement besides the "Bake it" crowd.

 

[Minstrel]

How about if KP doesn't manage to make any significant moves this off season then he has 2 strikes and is on thin ice?

Though I agree with the orignal response. If the PG search fails then KP wasted last summer, the last trade deadline and this off season.

Which would be three strikes and you (Pritchard!) are out, right?

I mean, rebuilding a junk roster into a mid-50s win team with a lot of upside remaining was nice and all, but not using an expiring contract/$8 million cap space is unforgivable and easily nullifies the previous work.

Are the Blazers really better off today then when Pritchard took over? I think it's a good question to ask that no one bothers to due to the "cult of KP."

 

[RickyRubio]

If we trade RLEC for Carter last year, how do we re-sign LMA and Roy Wonder?

 

[BrianFromWA]

easy. We say "Brandon, please sign this max contract extension", and "LaMarcus, here's your 5yr/60M extension...you just need to sign the bottom--right--there."

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If Hedo is indeed the target, then I might feel a little better about going into the season with Steve Blake. As we saw with Orlando, Hedo can be a primary ballhandler. Blake is good enough to bring the ball up the court (I'll give him that much) at which point he used just to give it to Roy. Now he can also give it to Hedo, who is, according to David Thorpe (NOT my favorite person, but still) the best pick-and-roll running SF outside of LeBron James. And running the pick and roll was one of the major reasons I didn't like Blake as our PG.

 

[ehizzy3]

if those fail then i would like to try and sign shannon brown

 

[PapaG]

I find it funny you choose try to make generic slams against nobody in particular with nothing to back it up.

Who are you slamming? Them.

Who are they?

To top it off, I believe you are wrong. Almost everybody on this board wants an upgrade at both positions, and it woudl be hard to find anybody in disagreement besides the "Bake it" crowd.

All that was mentioned at the TD was that SF NEEDED to be upgraded and that Pritchard had failed on RLEC. Now, it is PG that NEEDS to be upgraded, and if Pritchard doesn't, it's a failure.

I just wonder what some people would be saying had, say, Richard Jefferson arrived at the deadline, yet it meant limited options at PG this summer.

The post was intended to be "generic" because I was making a "generic" point about the posts of then verus now.

 

[RoyToy]

I just don't see where Outlaw and Webster fit into all of this if the Blazers are to add a PG and SF, which is what I think they want to do.

sign Hedo trade Blake/Webster for Hinrich? I'd guess you could keep Outlaw actually, which I'm totally fine with btw.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here are some unglamorous vet PG UFAs probably available for the veteran's minimum as a backup:

Lindsey Hunter -- he's older than dirt, but he's a good veteran influence and can still defend.
Anthony Carter -- who I thought didn't look bad in the playoffs
Bobby Jackson -- never a pure PG but a tough veteran
Brevin Knight -- see Lindsey Hunter: better PG, worse shooter
Jacque Vaughn -- came in in the Chauncey Billups draft, so old but not ancient.
Kevin Ollie -- his best was never up there with the above guys. And that's pretty damning!

 

[PapaG]

Here are some unglamorous vet PG UFAs probably available for the veteran's minimum as a backup:

Lindsey Hunter -- he's older than dirt, but he's a good veteran influence and can still defend.
Anthony Carter -- who I thought didn't look bad in the playoffs
Bobby Jackson -- never a pure PG but a tough veteran
Brevin Knight -- see Lindsey Hunter: better PG, worse shooter
Jacque Vaughn -- came in in the Chauncey Billups draft, so old but not ancient.
Kevin Ollie -- his best was never up there with the above guys. And that's pretty damning!

Lindsey Hunter is the only one who at all interests me of that group, and as you said, he's older than dirt.